miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

[jenny_fleishman]

Exercise glove link:

http://www.flextend.com/flextendrestore.html

The person I usually speak to is Robyn. They tell me a couple studies were done recently with great success, and some articles should be published soon.

Jenny

[marcell]

I made a photo today of a shoe I just work on.

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/1016/bekoteskv0.jpg

http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/2103/bekotes2qb2.jpg

I am curious if anyone use this technic in this forum? I guess even in Hungary there are only two shoemakers who still use this method - on of them is me.

[marcell]

I don't know where should I put this post, so I write here again..

I already mention about goiser stitch here. I just started to make a shoe with this method, moreover with a very special sewing type.

Photos:

http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/9524/goiser1bz1.jpg

http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/5126/goiser2ev8.jpg

http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/1972/goiser3mj3.jpg

http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/2019/goiser4uk5.jpg

I will continue my short "photo essay" when I continue working on this shoe.

[dw]

Marcell,

Here is fine for this technique. But although I admire it, I still can't figure out how you are doing it from the photos. Maybe more photos at each individual step?

Also, just for your information, you can post photos direct to this forum so that folks can see them here. Go over to formatting on the left side and click on "other formatting" You'll see a description of how to post images here. The syntax is \image{photo description}

then when you preview the message you will see a placeholder saying "your image here." And when you atually post the message the forum software will ask you for the location (on your harddrive) of the image you want to post. It's easy and simple.

Of course photos need to be reduced in size to 640x480 @72 dpi first.


Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

(Message edited by dw on November 04, 2007)

[romango]

Marcell,

I love that stitching! How are you doing your brogueing and gimping?

[marcell]

huh... what does that mean: brogueing and gimping? I can't find them in my dictionaries..

[artzend]

Marcell,

Broguing is the pattern made by punching with round punches, such as on a toe cap for an Oxford or Derby. Gimping is the little "V" shapes along a raw edge, they quite often go together.

There has been talk of a gimping attachment for a sewing machine over the last few weeks. They are old shoemaking terms and probably not in conventional dictionaries, especially translation ones. I bet you have some term for them that we haven't heard either.

Tim

[marcell]

Thanks Tim!
I am sure that I don't know any term in English, what you dont know.

So now I can give answer to Rick:

brogueing: by hand, gimping: with a sewing machine.

[angel]

Not sure if this is the right topic for asking if there are any other riding boots makers in the forum?
I have a question concerning legs hardening.
I've tried gluing the outside leather to the lining with contact cement. This works well but legs don't get too rigid. They behave as a thicker leather piece.
I also tried using what we call "toe cement" (Bad translation) Some plastic cement used for toe boxes, that can be diluted with some kind of thinner. I guess it's something like what you call celastic. This gives a harder leg, but it is not regular through all the surface, depending in the thikness of the cement layer and/or (perhaps) in the way leather absorbs it (specially lining)
My next try will be wall paper paste, as seen in tim's videos about toe boxes (Thanks, Tim)
But I would appreciate any advice.
Thanks!
Angel

[artzend]

Angel,

I used to use the wallpaper paste mixed with PVA woodworking glue, I think it's called Elmers in America, it's a water based glue and mixes well. I used it in the leg of riding boots when I made them.

If you put on a lot of paste you get quite a lot of time to fit the two sections together.

I would like to see a photo of your lasts. I had a pair of English riding boots given to me with a complete set of trees which sound similar to your lasts. I only made them on conventional lasts and put a wheelbarrow tube in the leg and pumped it up to press all the wrinkles out until the paste dried. There may be a better adhesive/stiffener out there, so if anyone else can add to this, go for it.

Tim

[relferink]

Tim,

What are the proportions on the mixture of wallpaper past and PVA glue? Can you change the firmness / workability by changing the mixture?

Thanks

Rob

[angel]

Tim,
Is PVA a white vinil adhesive used for wood? I'd give it a chance.
Why is it better than paste alone? does it improve hardness? or adhesion?
I've made a test with two pieces of soaked leather with wall paper paste and it worked fine. It gives a lot of time, necessary to sew the backs of the legs to close them and afterwards to put them in the lasts. I think this is a good way to go. Don't know if PVA would work well in soaked keather. I guess yes.

Angel

[artzend]

Rob and Angel,

I never had a particular formula, and just squeezed in as much as I figured. I would think that the paste would be the place to modify thickness. The pva just gives a better adhesion and also I think it contains a mould retardent. I have used this mixture between the lining and upper where no toe puff was used and it held it's shape reasonably well for a long time.

Yes, Angel that is the stuff. Pva works with the wallpaper paste and would work with wet leather as it is water based, but may go off quicker than straight cereal based paste, George never used the pva but I always did.

Georgene, if you see this, veg tanned roo makes very light and smooth easy to use toe puffs for light women's shoes (courts etc). Especially with pointed toes, it means that the toe can be a bit finer without much work.

Tim
Tim

[angel]

For those who were curious about my riding boots last, and lasting process, here goes some pics. The lasting ones are not good, but the only I could rescue from somewhere after loosing a hard disk, and I think they show enough.

The lasts. In process and finished (at least for that moment)
This is not the final version. It's formed by 4 pieces. Now I made another piece by cutting a cuneiform side on the central piece of the leg, for easier and better lasting.

6132.jpg

6133.jpg

First I last the legs. Soak them in cold water for about 2 hours and put in the last trees. being the center piece cuneiform it presures de front and back pieces when it gets in. Depending on the tipe of leather I sometimes have to push realy hard, or even help the wedge in. For positioning I first put 2 nails up and 2 down the back seam, on the pack last piece. The legs are cut about 2 cm less in diameter to have the leather stretched.
here you can see the back seam before puting on the straps that hide them.

6134.jpg

6135.jpg

Then here comes the dirty work. As I said, I preform the vamps and heels on the last and then cut the edges to their final shape. Not an academic way, but it works for me (remember I make a pair per year, as a most)

6136.jpg

The counters are 4 mm. veg tanned cow sole leather. The hardest Ii can find. Then soaked and preformed. The edges are skived to about 0,5 mm.

(Message edited by angel on November 28, 2007)

[artzend]

Angel,

That is certainly a unique approach. The boot trees that I have look just like that but I figured that they were put in last, maybe I was wrong.

How do you go about closing at this stage? Do you handsew or take the bits off the last and close and then re-last?

Tim

[das]

Angel,

For a stiffening paste (pre-made) I have found potato-starch-based "Hirshklebber" [SP?] from Germany, imported by Atlas International (CA) both sticks things well, and adds a great deal of stiffness. No mixing involved, I just thin it out with a bit of water. (Details on CC in archived posts).

It's certainly not the traditional way, to make/last a riding boot over a boot (keeping) tree as you are doing--trees usually go in "last" just to snap the legs out to shape/size--but the results look very nice indeed. How do you manage to hold the boot, or move it around to position it to last, sew, stitch, etc., with a full boot tree inside versus a low boot last? Even with the low boot last, keeping the boot-leg out of the way is annoying enough, I cannot imagine how it would be with a heavy boot-tree waving about

[angel]

Tim,
As far as I know, riding boots makers don't use full lasts because they are not practical. They have separate feet and legs last sets which they mix to fit each customer meassures.
I assume your boot trees are put-in lasts, as you say, intended to keep the boots in good shape when not in use. But they could be used to make boots, also, I think.
About sewing: After I preform the 3 parts, I take the legs out of the last and glue all parts together, overlapping the vamps and heels 2 or 3 mm. more than exact measure so as they get stretched a little when lasted.
Then I take them to the repair shop to have them sewn and stay praying for the sewer's inspiration. They never do it too good, but neither too bad...
And then I last soaked, leave it to dry 3 or 4 days, and close the bottoms, inseaming in a traditional (though far from expert) way.
At this stage, I have to say I will never be grateful enough for all of you who share your knowledge here, specially the videos.
Angel

[angel]

Al
I have no posibility to get potato-starch-based "Hirshklebber" here...
But I'm interested in home made formulas, base on cereals. potatoes, or something alike. If you have some experience in this, I'd be grateful to hear yor advices.
As for boots handling in full lasts, yes, It´s a mess. They are uncomfortable and heavy to move. And you have to take care not to scratch the leather against a table, the tools, etc.
But not imposible. For lasting and inseaming I put the feet between my legs, as anyone would do, and, as the last legs are long enough, they rest on the floor. Stitching the soles is a little more complicated. I keep them standing bottoms up but over the table.
For positioning the boot to last, mi first guide is the bach part of the last legs. I nail them and fill in the rest of the last. I make corrections if necessary. Sometimes they have come out badly positioned, but I only noticed when finnished and wearing!
Angel

[tmattimore]

Angel
A very interesting and unique method. I have made a few riding boots but I prefer the field boot. There is a machine called an up the arm stitcher that I expect factories use but I sew with a patcher and despite practice have never been satisfied with the sewing and it is also difficult to get out the teeth marks.
Tom

[das]

Tom,

Hint on that--one of the "biggest names" in bespoke English riding boots, I visited numerous times, stitched his back-straps on an old Adler patcher. When I got home I tried in vain to duplicate his results on my patcher. On my next visit to Northampton I asked him how he did it. With a twinkle in his eye he showed me: before attaching the back-strap to the top of the counter, he ran it through a Singer flat-bed "dry" with no thread, to punch all the holes. He then put it in place on the boot and stitched it on the patcher with a round-point cloth needle, which was guided and centered itself on the pre-punched holes. Ever noticed how results vary with a patcher? Sometimes stitching new work looks fine, at others it looks like hell? In using a patcher to mend, the old holes steer the needle just fine, and without so much tension on the feed-foot (reduces track-marks).

Until I got a Singer 11 class (long-arm, up-the-arm, back-strapping machine) I did mine that way and they came out fine after a bit or practice, but you have to run rows of empty holes first, on a finer machine. LMK how you get along with that trick.

[angel]

Al,
I've seen a boots maker that used to do it half in that way. First he prepunched the back straps in a flat bed machine and after gluing them on the boots he sewed by hand with a "crochet" needle. I think it was a hard work, but the result was excellent.
Angel

[tmattimore]

out standing tip Al. If you run across an up the arm machine that does'nt require a second mortgage let me know. Thanks Tom

[tmattimore]

Angel
here is my first field boots. you can see the whoopsie on the stitching, built on a munson US army last.

6168.jpg

[angel]

Tom
Good looking boots!
You haven't lasted the legs, didn't you?
I like the side laces, which seem to provide a very good fitting to the legs.
I'm working in a pair of field boots now. By the moment trying to figure the patterns. They will be laced in the cone, and the rest like normal english riding boots.
The main difference with yours is that the laces are on the legs pieces, that goes down covering the vamps half way down to the toe, like in normal shoes. Just classical boots.
Angel

[lute]

A Youtube video showing the making of a custom English riding boot from beginning to end.
Filmed in the Der-Dau boot shop in New York.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GywJyj0DYs