Books, Manuals, Publications

[paul]

Frank,
Thank you very much for your ready reply. It makes a great impression. I would love to have you guide me through this process. Furthermore, I don't mind doing it 'on stage', I'll have a little more pressure not to ask stupid questions, but I've embarrased myself in front of other people before and didn't die from it. So, I'll take me chances.

I would indeed like to have information on your 'Handbook'. I must confess, however, that I am interested in pursuing the geometric method and have made a pattern for the zipper boots I am making for my customer. But it's only paper at this point.

I was 'fortunatly successful' using this method to make my first pair of lace up boots following DW's tutorial on that style. It seems to speak to me, in that it answers the curiosity I've had for years about how shoes are designed. But again, I have to acknowledge your statement that your handbook is a standard college textbook.

But as I say, my questions are really more where to go once the pattern is finished. I can post a drawing of the style I'm after and maybe we can take it from there. It is to be a 10" zipper boot with a 1 1/4" heel, round toe with room enough for his insert. More information on that is forthcoming.
So, here it is:

2337.jpg

I look forward to your input.
PK

[dw]

Paul,

You've hit on the very problem that almost every book ever written suffers from. None of them take you through the assembly process nor offer any guidance on what order to proceed.

Many times. of course, it depends on what system you use and what your intentions are regarding construction materials.

As Frank suggested, designing patterns directly from the last is different than designing from a geometric system. In many ways, designing from the last is more accurate, and less wasteful of leather. In some ways it seems to me, at least, to be more subject to variation in that design elements are often left up to the eye and the sensibilities of the maker.

The geometric system that I use is an amalgam of several systems...one inherited from an old Rumanian shoemaker; some elements that originated in a Danish shoemaking college (courtesy of Kevin Leahy), elements from Max Sahm's book (entirely in German) and a lot from Bata's old system of geometric layout. One thing I like about it is that it allows me to control the leg of a lace up boot more closely than any other method I've looked at.

Now as to Balmorals...(I don't do zipper boots, so you're on your own there) it depends upon the way you lay out the patterns. But it also depends on how you intend to construct it. I use a fully sewn in tongue--not many do, especially on that style. I also use a fully sewn in heel stiffener that starts out life as a flat piece of soling leather....just the same as in my packers and in my pull-ons. You have to design for that. And you have to sequence your assembly procedures accordingly.

For example, when a Bal or an Oxford (or even a Darby boot) is designed and made from the last, the liners are cut and mounted inside the quarters separately. Not so with my method...good or bad? Generally, the closing back seam is one of the the last steps...again not so with my method. The heel stiffener is usually inserted in-between the liner and the quarter as the boot is being lasted. Once again, I do it differently.

My point is, that just knowing that you will use an inserted heel stiffener, just that one thing...changes the sequence of assembly and even how you design the pattern.

So, with so few books (none ??--except for my own) that offer any guidance in assembly and sequence, what do you do? Well, the bottom line is that you have to think it through. You need to be able to visualize each step of the process... ahead of time...before you cut...in your head. That's probably the most important skill or talent that a craftsman can have. think it through. And, the more you do it the better you'll be able to do it. You'll make some mistakes, especially at first. And you'll visualize procedures that in reality cannot be done. But with practice , you'll get better at it and as a bonus, it will save you a lot of heart-ache and wasted leather down the line.


Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[cmw]

Frank Jones

I assume the method of design you are refering to is the one they teach at the london designers school. If so i would love it if you cound send me some info on the book, so I could possibly buy it for the next time I'm in school.

A Cold Texan
CW

[jonathon]

G'day Paul.

I'm glad to hear that George is still getting people enthused almost 2 years to the day since he passed on.
I was a student of Georges over a 10 year period and was lucky enough to have assisted him in the last 3, 2 week seminars that he conducted.
Should you have any queries I will be happy to try and guide you along.

Cheers.
Jon.

[Frank Jones of Lancashire,]

Chris Williamson

I can send you a detailed brochure about the Pattern Cutter’s Handbook but I need your postal address.

Am I correct in assuming you are the new member listed by DW on the HHC Bulletin Board as:-

#261
Mr. Christopher M. Williamson
Danasvej 29 st. tv.
1910 Fredricksberg C
Denmark

I am confused by the “A Cold Texan” in front of your signature. Looking forward to hearing from you.

Frank Jones
frank.jones@shoemaking.com

[Frank Jones of Lancashire,]

Paul Krause

I will be happy to help if I can. However, you do say, “I am interested in pursuing the geometric method and have made a pattern for the zipper boots I am making for my customer”.

Perhaps I should stand aside and let DW and Jonathon Head provide the primary guidance. Both of them know much more about the Geometric method than I do. Believe me I learn all the time from these discussions and on this one I will be quite content to be a student alongside you.

I promise you that won’t stop me making a observation, if I think if could be useful.

A very mature student !

Frank Jones
frank.jones@shoemaking.com

[cmw]

Frank

You have the correct addr.
E-mail- terratex@mac.com
jocw10@hotmail.com

Is there any way you can send the info. via the net. It saves a postal charge.

The Cold Texan crack is just something I do when the weather here in Denmark is a little nasty. I've been over here in Denmark for the last 14 yrs. That should be enough for a texan to get used to the nasty danish winter.

CW

[Frank Jones of Lancashire,]

Chris Williamson

I was a little confused by your “signature” but it now makes perfect sense. If a Texan goes to live in Denmark how else would you describe yourself. Tell me, do you wear the big hat??

The brochure for the Pattern Cutter’s Handbook will be sent as a pdf attachment today.

Thanks for a good suggestion.

Frank Jones
frank.jones@shoemaking.com

[cmw]

Frank

Thanks for the info. I'll make a check out to you some time this wk.

Yes I do use my hat/s from time to time. I forgot to get a new straw hat this last christmas, but I still use my felt for snowy days. I also have a soft brimmed australian style for windy days.

The "Texas style" has been the reason for my first job here and a few women to boot.
Now that I have a wife and so on I'm a good boy!!!

CW

[paul]

Jonathon,
I wanted to acknowledge your offer of help, especially since you have had personal contact with the author. I'd be very interested in your input. Thank you.

To any who would be interested in jumping in on my intruction, I also thank you in advance.

So, I've got my pattern created. I'm willing to go with what I have created from the geometric method of pattern making for the elastic sided ankle boot, incorporating some design features from DW's packer design to get the ankle angle and measurements with allowances. As I've said, I'll take me chances.

So the first chioce I think I need to make is that of the counter. Either a pocket counter, preformed and slipped between the lining and quarter, or to stitch one in. I stitched in the counter in the packers I made. I like that and have the feeling it's the best choice, even though it's not the way I've seen this boot made over the years where I've worked on shoes. But I believe this choice brings with it many more design choices. I guess I'm interested in opinions on this subject first.

And so what about pocket counters? Do those of you who make shoes, cut and mold your own counters? Or do you buy those I've seen finders carry in the past? I've used this kind, a time or two, for repairs and it seems they could be worked down suit these purposes.

PK

[cmw]

Paul Krause

Every time I'm in school and not in the shop/work I watch what the othepedic makers do. I have never seen any use antthing else other that pocket counters. I've only seen them at work/repairs.

Last time I was in school I learned how to take the premade counter and work them to fit your purpose best. The plastic ones were always thrown away. The pre made are ussually a beter quality than just a peace of leather of the floor or shelf.

A trick that I remmember is that when you have tappered the edges, you need to make it fit better against and around the insole. we did that by hollowing a channel around the bottom ca 1 cm from the bottom.

I would like to stress that this is done with the same curved knife you use on the edges.

CW

[jonathon]

Paul.
Glad to be of service.

One thing to consider when choosing between a sewn in counter or a pocket stiffner is the types of sewing machines you have at your disposal to facilitate closing. Should you choose a sewn in counter you will certainly require a post and/or cylinder or patcher. With a sewn in counter there will be far less flexibility during closing. With a 'pocket' style counter your uppers will remain alot more pliable and a flatbed should be all you'll require. (However now I'm a little confused as to whether your making a zip up,chelsea or lace-up boot)

As far as the stiffner itself I generally use a good quality belly. Anything from about 3-5mm thick, depending on type of boot/shoe. With the stiffners wet they can be skived by hand in the appropriate manner and set aside untill ready to last up. when lasting the stiffner should again be wet and this will allow it to conform to the shape of the last.

Hope this helps to get you started.
Cheers.
Jon.

[Kevin Leahy]

Paul,

In regards to your questions about counters from a shoemaking perspective, and the methods for making them. My old master said, “The counter is the soul of the shoe.” What he meant was that the counter is one of the most important aspects of fit, foot support and longevity of footwear. The insole can be recovered, uppers can be revamped, soles and heels repaired, but if the counter fails, it is difficult to resurrect the shoe or boot. In short, the heel counter is one of the most important considerations of the design and construction of footwear.

My background is orthopedic shoemaking, so I am more familiar with the “pocket” counter. (Actually, when I think of pocket counters, I think of unlined work boots with a pocket of upper leather sewn to the outside of the upper to contain the counter. But semantics aside, pocket counter also describes the space between the upper and the lining.) I make my counters from scratch, with German “old tanned necks” which are tanned for counter making. Most factory counters are too short in height to accommodate the orthopedic insert of the shoe, and don’t extend forward enough to give the support that orthopedic footwear requires.

Before designing the upper, I skive and mold the counter to the last, which already has the orthopedic insert and insole attached. This serves two purposes; the counter is already molded for lasting the uppers (one thing less to fight while lasting) and the allowance for the counter is automatically made during the patternmaking. I was taught that the hair (smooth) side always goes toward the foot, because as leather dries it will curl toward that side, which will grip the heel better. I have never seen a pre-made counter made that way, which is another reason to roll your own.
Please excuse the pedantic tone of this post, but I really believe that custom footwear requires the best counter you can make. (And best does not mean thick, but that is a discussion for another post.) I hope this sheds some light from a shoemaking perspective.

If you think there will be much heel slippage, I would go with the cowboy style sewn-in counter. As the elastic of the gores breaks down, I think the heel will slip more, which will wear out a pocket style heel lining. Of course, this is why cowboy boots evolved with stitched-in exposed counters, because a fair amount of heel slippage is expected.

Tight heels,
Kevin

[pablo]

In 2002 , several posts mentioned the Library of Congress and its American Memory photo file of a bootmaker. The photographer, Lee Russell, visited Alpine,TX in the mid 1930's on behalf of the US gov't to record worklife in America. The bootshop was the G.K.Lange Boot & Shoe Shop ( established in 1911 at Alpine). Lange was from Dresden and moved to the US after apprenticeship ( shoe& lace-up boots) and joined the Justin boot & shoe business in 1905. He subsequently left Justin and
after trying bootmaking in other west Texas settled in Alpine wheree he died in 1971.
pablo

[fletch]

pablo,

Good information! Where did you find that piece of boot history?

Mark

[pablo]

Mark,
Researching the topic of bootmkers of cow boy boots led to the descendents and former employees or text data such as the census,city directories and local history books or similar written accounts. I try to obtain atleast a second confirming source.
The Lange file is from census,the American Memory photos at the Library of Congress,local history( newspaper) and a daughter of Lange, who lives near Alpine,TX.
pablo

[paul]

Kevin,

Thank you for getting right to the heart of my uncertainty. I think you have addressed exactly the question I've had, certainly as regards heel slippage. That's just what I wanted to hear.

"The counter is the soul of the shoe", I like that alot. I'm going to repeat that a thousand times in the years ahead, thank you. Your other comments about counters are also very instructive.

You said, "Before designing the upper, I skive and mold the counter to the last, which already has the orthopedic insert and insole attached."

I saw a pair of custom made shoes from Lords this morning that looked like it had been made just that way. An Orthotist here in town brought them by for me to see. (He and I have been talkiing alot for some time now.) What I'm going to assume is that the lining is assembled as well at this point, then the counter and toe box (which looked like it was probably celastic).

What about the part where you say that the insert and insole are already attached? Is that the removeable insert you're talking about? Is that insert and the insole attached to the last before the lining is 'lasted'?

This pair I am taking instuction on is a zipper boot, in which I will now be using a stitched in counter. There will be an insert, made by this Orthotist, for the customer and it will have a 'post' behind the fifth metatarsal as a correction. I will need to make allowance for it on the last, I am assuming. How much of one I'll have to guess at, and place it on top of the last over the area where that 'post' will be. And I thought I should make them a 'full welt style' versus a 3/4 welt, as the feather edge will be more accepting of an insert in the arch area.

Kevin, I'd be interested in your comments about these points as well.

PK

[Kevin Leahy]

Paul,

I am sorry for the lack of clarity in the post about counters. The orthopedic insert and insole are tacked to the bottom of the last (for this method to work, it is necessary to have formed the insert to an orthopedic last, which has all of the orthopedic features such as arch and metatarsal support built into the last. If the insert is pre-made, such as an orthosis made over a plaster cast or made by an orthotist colleague, then a spacer of the correct thickness should be placed between the insole and the standard last. After the boot is completed, then the spacer can be removed and the orthosis placed in the boot.) The insert (or spacer) and insole are attached to the last before the lining is lasted.

One way to determine the correct thickness for the spacer is to circumferentially measure the client’s feet with orthoses in place, and use those measurements for the spacer thickness. I would make the spacers a constant thickness (I would taper the spacer thinner under the toes for cosmetics) and not try to replicate any posting of the orthoses. Doing so may be counter-productive. The boots’ only job is to provide a stable foundation for the orthoses, most of the correction will be handled by the inserts. Of course, consult with the orthotist about appropriate sole or heel wedging.

Most inserts require a wider shank than a three-quarter welt/pegged shank allows, I agree a full welt is a good idea.

The counter is formed to the last, but it is removed prior to lasting the upper and lining, or prior to stitching the counter to upper and lining, if going cowboy style.

These comments are assuming the use of stock lasts with minimal modifications for fit. I prefer to cast the clients’ feet and making the lasts from scratch, incorporating orthopedic corrections at every step of the way; from casting (especially the casting) to balancing the inserts to designing the counters to the balance of the sole and heel. This involves gait analysis, biomechanics, three-point corrective forces, anatomical considerations of cuboid, metatarsal and longitudinal arches, stabilization of the calcaneus, forefoot and hindfoot varus/valgus; not to mention range of motion of the ankles, osteoarthritis of the knees, hip pathologies, scoliosis, etc. Whew! No wonder I switched to making artificial legs— it’s much simpler!

Kevin

[Frank Jones of Lancashire,]

Paul Krause

I would like to support the input from Kevin Leahy - Jan 30. The points made are exactly in tune with my experience. However, there is a caveat, Kevin is much more able in his field than I will ever be.

Having said that one further comment might be helpful, again supporting Kevin’s contribution. In this “text only” conversation, the terminology used in shoemaking can often be a barrier to understanding, in a way that never happens face-to-face.

The use of certain words in particular, regularly cause problems. Counter is a prime example. Generally in the trade the item used in the back of footwear to help support the heel section of the upper is called a stiffener. An outside upper component which wraps around the back of the heel and sometimes is the back part of both quarters is called a counter or more precisely an outside counter. The lining on the inside of the upper, in exactly the same relative position, is called a counter lining. In some less expensive footwear the counter lining is made from a stiffening material and coated with a flocked surface to produce a combined lining and stiffener which is sewn in place. This is often called a counter. In a text only conversation, probably the best way to make things absolutely clear is to use the “full name”, which is nearly always part descriptive.

Most stiffeners are inserted between the upper and the lining into what is normally called a “stiffener pocket” - the space at the back of the upper between the back of the quarters/counter and the quarter/counter lining.

For those of you still awake, I hope this discussion on the semantics helps a little.

So Paul, back to Kevin for the real hands-on stuff. You are lucky to have somebody with his knowledge and experience guiding you

Frank Jones
frank.jones@shoemaking.com

[cmw]

I am planning a 4 day trip to London and Leeds in about a month. I thought it would be a good chance to look for books and tools that I can not find here in DK. If anyone has nay ideas I would be thankful.

By the way, I hope ya'll are having a good summer

A Hot and Happy Texan
CW

[Frank Jones of Lancashire,]

Chris Williamson

First an apology for not replying sooner. I note you are planning a trip to London and Leeds. I don’t know of any specific place you can visit to look for books and tools and if there was one, I think I would know about it.

If you are driving from London to Leeds, it is worth noting that George Barnsley and Sons (the tool makers) are based in Sheffield, about 30 miles south of Leeds. I have never visited them but I would enjoy the idea of having an American friend visiting from Denmark, to provide an excuse to ask Andrew Barnsley for an invitation.

Do come back to me with the dates you will be in England. It would be great to meet you face-to-face.

Frank Jones
frank.jones@shoemaking.com

[marc]

Just a note on a new site on shoemaking. This gentleman is just getting started on his website, but it's likely going to be worth keeping an eye on.

http://www.schuhmacherwerkzeug.de

Yes, it's in German, but don't let that stop you from visiting the site.

Marc

[marc]

Since I've had some fre time on my hands, I started trying to organize my notes on some old manuals. So if you've ever wanted to actually READ Rees, now's the time.

http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/histshoe/index.htm

If you see any transcription errors, please feel free to let me know.

(The section on Holme is pretty fragmentary, and I haven't decided how much of Dekker and Deloney to include).

Marc

[das]

Marc,

Bravo! Except for a few typos/mis-scans, which we'll comb out eventually, these are fantastic resources to have on-line.

For those interested in Holme's 1688 book: this book is now back in print in CD-ROM format from EBookCDRom; there is a page on this reprint.

The searchable CD includes not only the published illustrations, but many of Holme's rough sketches prepared for the manuscript, so you can see what he sketched, and how poorly his engraver got things in the final version.

Gee Marc, how 'bout adding O'Sullivan and Devlin next?

[das]

Sorry, bum link. Try:

http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cache:KDMbPyArvXsJ:www.utppublishing.com/detail.asp%3FTitleID%3D2242+randle+holme+academy+of+armory+CD&hl=en&start=1&ie=UTF-8