Great Leather!

[homeboy]

Dee-Dubb,
You know....they informed me that they couldn't get the "rolled" shoulders during our conversations, but to tell ya the truth, I'm kinda glad they sent "rolled". Don't know why, I've never worked with this leather. But during our talks, I was sure you said you might prefer the "rolled" over the "unrolled".

Either way, we'll see how I like it. I'll report back as soon as I have a chance to fool around with another pair of boots.

I would encourage others to do the same. DW and I aren't the final say on this leather. But if DW Frommer says it's good leather, I would bet my last biscuit it's good! (not to put you on the spot Dee-Dubb ). I would like to remind everyone that Berger has gone out on a limb, so to speak, to provide a leather they don't usually carry. Try some....see how you like it!

Appreciate everyone's time! Merry Christmas!

Adios, Jake

[homeboy]

Ok....more info!

Berger is selling the bundles by the kg....$8.99/kg. A bundle is averaging between 7 - 9.5 kg. You can do the math (2.2lbs/kg).
I ordered a couple of bundles. They will be delivered Monday. I'll be too busy in the office to mess with them next week, but will follow-up as soon as possible.

If you got any questions, just let me know!

Adios, Jake

[bcFour]

So I just got back from the UK and if anyone finds themselves in Northampton (or within trains' reach of Northampton) - I was introduced to Keith at Lyons Leather. He's an old shoemaker and has a warehouse full of one-off skins. Not the sort of thing you'd want to buy sight-unseen, but spend a few hours (or days) in there and you'll walk away with some great leather for next to nothing. I couldn't believe how much I didn't spend!!

also, @homeboy , do you have a verdict yet on the Berger insole leather? thoughts?

[NatchezRabbit]

I am looking for black waxed calf to make some early 18th century military shoes. Where can I purchase it now that Dickens Brothers has stopped?

Thanks,

David

[dw]

A.A. Crack carries something that is a reasonable facsimile being made by Horween. It's not historically correct in how it is made but it looks real close. See my IG pageThere are a number of examples of both the Horween and some I made myself using an old recipe. The latest three (?) posts feature some Horween that a customer brought back from the UK.

Hope that helps...

[NatchezRabbit]

Thank you. I will check it out.

[Norwegian Welter]

I have no experience with it myself, but Crack also carries black waxed calf from J&FJ Baker, might be worth a look:

https://www.aacrack.co.uk/tanneries/j-f ... 13-15.html

[NatchezRabbit]

Thank you!

[NatchezRabbit]

What thickness will I need for the uppers for a military shoe? Crack's offering is 1.3 to 1.5mm.

Thank you,

David

[dw]

@das would be the one to answer this. Personally, I think you would need something on the order of 6-8 ounce (whatever that is in mm). I got some 6 ounce from Crack... (customer brought it back from UK) but it was Horween. Don't know if the Baker would be that heavy but if it were me...as much as the the Horween seems suitable at least in appearance...I think I would prefer the Baker if it wer available in the weights you want. It's certainly more historically correct.

[das]

The Bakers seems might thin. For military grade waxed calf, I'd go with a 2.2 to 2.4 mm thickness or 5-6oz. in US parlance.

[NatchezRabbit]

Thank you both for your willingness to share your knowledge.

[deadfisheyes]

What are you guys' opinions on using Veg tan shoulder as upper leather?

The Italian tanneries are very popular with their veg tan cow offerings, but I see that it's usually in Double shoulder or belly cut e.g. Buttero by Walpier, Minerva by Badalassi Carlo

Many casual bootmakers in Japan, Indonesia use those leather for their boots.

I'm new to the forum and hope to learn more from the elders here.

H.D

[dw]

Welcome to the Crispin Colloquy.

Nothing wrong with vegetable tanning for upper leathers. Some high end shoes where custom dyeing and finishing is wanted, are made with crusts...which often are veg.

That said, as with any other animal skin, shoulder is not prime. And belly is far from prime. And when the animal is older, those cuts are even less prime.

Whether they are suitable for shoes or boots comes down to whether you are making high end shoes and boots or work boots or some other footwear that doesn't require best quality or best practices.

[deadfisheyes]

Thank you DW.

Here,the high end crust calf mainly used for shoes are Chrome tanned from Annonay or Du Puy. Veg crust can be found too, either Italian or Indian, Bangladesh; but I'm pretty apprehensive about trying them.

I'm curious about the usage of Veg shoulder because I saw that they are favored by "White Kloud", a Japanese Bespoke Bootmaker. His style is clearly workboot-ish, though the finishing is pretty high end. The leather is Badalassi Carlo. I saw that this tannery only does veg tanning and only produce shoulder cut.

Does the shoulder, being less prime, affect the longevity of the boots?

[dw]

Yes, also structural integrity and the way the shoe creases (generally unevenly and almost randomly)

[deadfisheyes]

I keep seeing work/heritage boots brands like Nick's talk about their oak tan leather insole/heel/outsole. Apparently, those are tanned in the USA, not JR or Baker. Where can you find these US tanned oak tanneries?

[dw]

Maybe nowhere...although having said, that a distinction must be made between what Americans call 'Oak Tan" and what really is oak tan. Americans are famous for playing fast and loose with definitions.

AKAIK, all the 'oak tan' leather commercially tanned in the US is actually tanned with synthetic tannins with a smidgen of extracts for exotic South American barks such as Quebracho, and it's all called 'oak tanned' despite having zero oak tannins or bark.

And some of it is relatively good leather but none of it can hold a candle to Baker.

IMO....

[Harkmark sko]

My name is Dina I come from Norway, I have made shoes since 2006 the old bespoke way as I was fortunate to find Jan Petter Myhre in Oslo to teach me the basics.
I am however searching for tips on Leather for insoles to be worked by hand-tools. All the leathers I have bought so far has a bite to them, I understand they might be treated with some chrome or other "stuff". The truble is: I do not know what to ask for so I can get help ordering the right stuff, as hardly anyone selling leather in Norway makes shoes all by hand and therefor dont know what I talk about or what I want them to look for when I order something.
When I shop I allways do that in person, is there a look or smell to the real oak tan leather I want up against the next best thing. I have tried to read up on these things, but some posts are so old that things change in the meantime.

[das]

This is not a commercial endorsement, but the last operating oak bark, pit-tannery in the UK, J. & F. J. Bakers is the only insole I use. Zero chrome, very nice and mellow to work, takes a deep footbed in wear.

[carsten]

Two days ago Rendenbach announced that they are going out of business. Apparently the pandemic and the increasing trend towards sneakers are responsible for the shutdown. Looks like they are still receiving some orders but croupons and sole leather are already sold out.

[carsten]

Deleting accidental double post.

[nickb1]

Rendenbach gone .., wow. How depressing. I hope someone buys it out. the hell with sneakers ...

[homeboy]

I was able to get a bend and 10 pairs of outsoles before it vanished! SAD!

[nickb1]

@homeboy What are the "bends" for Jake? I thought insoles should be shoulders. I see that there are still some in stock over here. 3.5mm and 5mm.