The Crispin Colloquy

Nasser,

Glad you enjoyed that. Speaking of Cordwainers' long-lost power, they also had an edict that prohibited non-native and unlicensed shoemakers, from the lucrative London wholesale trade (in the 13thc.)--they knew where the profits were even back then. You were also limited to 8 apprentices at a time (obviously some were taking on more than 8), as they lived with you like foster-children. But, there was no limit apparently on the number of adult journeymen you could hire. Add to these numbers, your wife, children, and any family members capable of wielding a tool round the shop, and the true size of these firms comes more into focus--nevermind the Ghepetto-like Keebler elf shoemaker working all alone of lore and legend.

Today we tend to think of the historical guilds as just secret societies or protectionist trade-associations. They were in fact quasi-religious in certain aspects, providing pensions for the trade's widows and orphans, burials for dead members, endowing local "social service providers" like hospitals, supporting schools (in later centuries) and many trying to out-do each other in "good works". Henry III, who I mentioned the other day buying and giving away all those shoes to the poor in the 1200s, was in competition with the French king, trying to work their ways into heaven via their royal generosity. Imagine if our leaders today, and commercial and manufacturing sectors were tempered by similar concerns? What if our major corporations, e.g. Wal-Mart, acted more like the Lion's Club, or other civic charities, with all their wealth? We shall never know, as Henry VIII basically dismantled these activities during England's Reformation.

D.A,

13C seems to be the Spring time of the British and the French civilization,the edict in regard to 8 apprentices you spoke about,where they you think issued by the King/Government or the guilds themselves? the guilds seems to be like our modern time Unions. interesting what said,kings out-doing each other in "good works",i guess they knew than that ruling itself is a service,but here is a quote from David Astle book, the Tallies(stick) "for money has been the ruin of many and has misled the minds of kings." -Ecclesiasticus 8, Verse 2

Nasser

Nasser,

Things were definitely looking up for Europe in the 13thc. No idea where the limitation to just 8 apprentices comes from, but it is interesting that apparently they were used to taking in more, and had to be curtailed down to 8. Assuming most probably had their own natural children as well, adding 8 more youngsters to a household to feed, clothe, train, etc., seems like a huge deal these days, no?

The king's figured they could earn sainthood from the church if they did enough good works for their respective poor people--imagine that, being king was not enough in itself, they went to great lengths to try to become saints. Of course maybe they were just feeling guilty for all the nasty things kings did too, who knows.

"The past is a foreign country, they do things differently there...."--[L.P. Hartley]

D.A.,
Thanks for the larger perspective on what I now realize to be an overly simplified question. I have enjoyed your posts on this subject, especially getting to know how popular our trade was not so long ago. Cheers....J.

J.

Thank you. At this rate I guess I'll just have to post more shoe-history

Al,

Heck, there's a whole section on this forum devoted to history, with more than a dozen threads under it. I think I speak for most members when I say that we'd all welcome more historical stuff...and just coincidentally, it speaks to the whole purpose of the forum as pointedly as anything being posted here.

So, there's every reason to "let fly" and plenty of room to store it all, as well as many, many avid readers.

The real problem is that because most of us "don't know much about history" we don't know what questions to ask to get you (and others) to tell these stories--it's kind of a catch 22.

We'd all like to hear more, however...if only because they are our stories

"This is the way we begin to remember"

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

(Message edited by dw on August 26, 2008)

(Message edited by dw on August 26, 2008)

Does anyone know where I can find the name of or a source for finding the inventor and date for/of a machine that first made matching wooden lasts in left and right?

Gary,

I have a description of this machine in my J. Korn book,which is a single volume Golding,but it doesn't mentions the name of the maker or the date,but refers to it as next development to the Gilman lathe,there might be more written on it in the full version of Golding under Last manufacturing.

Nasser

I think you're looking for the Blanchard lathe (patented 1819-20?) for turning irregular shapes in wood. Though first adopted for turning gunstocks by the US Springfield arsenal, Blanchard's patent model shows it turning shoe lasts. The problem with the Blanchard lathe was that it could not grade from one sized model to various sized lasts until another gizmo was invented in the 1850(?) to grade.

Alasdair,

Here are a few more pictures of the shoes in the other topic area.

I have some others but they are not as good quality. Unfortunately the displays were not good for taking pictures. These were also reduced for upload purposes. If you, or anyone else, would like me to email the higher resolution and other photos, please let me know. I did not want to fill up the list with 1 meg files.

The first picture shows the original shoe and the reproduction. The second shows the reproduction from the side.


Terry

Terry,

Many thanks for posting those pictures. I'd love higher-resolution copies, I'll PM you my email address.

It's nice to see an extant shoe of that particular style with an instep strap. They are often depicted without straps and must have been very difficult to walk in.

It looks from that reproduction like the welt seam on my pair wasn't too horribly shelf like after all, which eases my mind some.

Do you know if there is any evidence of stitching holding the decorative inlaid stripe across the toe in place or if it is a part of a lining of the toe area?

Thanks.

Alasdair,

I too was very interested in how the decorative strip was attached. I spent some time looking at this shoe, but there was no angle at which I could look at the shoe and see the inside of the toe. The other visitors probably thought I was strange since I spent quite some time looking at that one display, kneeling, on tip-toes, sideways, etc. I even tried holding my digital camera at angles I personally could not achieve

It did not appear to be stitched on the outside, you should be able to see the lack of stitching on the pictures I sent you.

The nice thing is that the original shoe had that part fairly in tact, so maybe there is a chance that someone more familiar with the shoe will see this message.

Most of the remaining stitching I could find examples in various books; Stepping through Time, Shoes and Pattens, etc. I however have only tried a few of the techniques so far.

Terry

Terry,

I have all the photos now, many thanks for sending them my way.

Looking at them I suspect the strip over the toe is a strip of leather, possibly skived a bit at the ends[1], folded in half length-wise and stitched into a slit in the upper. I'll try this soon and see if it looks right.

Thanks again.

[1] I'm not 100% sure whether skiving is a medieval technique, not having seen any extant skived pieces of medieval leather.

Here is a little modern day history, told to me by a Nepali Scholar.

The trades people, notably shoemakers and tool makers are lowest caste here in Nepal. The lowest casts are not allowed to own property. Their livelihood traditionally involved the exchange of a bushel or so from every crop for services and goods rendered.

With the coming of the global economy, cheap shoes and tools from China and other places replaced their services, leaving them with no way to get food and no land to grow their own.

This large group of marginalized people formed the core of support for the Maoist revolutionaries who promised a more equitable system. The Maoist recently took control of Nepal and booted the King out. The King now sits in his summer home, an in-country exile and his vast palace is to be turned into a museum. Nepal is now a Maoist Democracy, whatever that means.

I relate this (in summary) as told to me by Keshar, a Harvard educated professor of forestry and ecology (retired).

I thought someone might find these boots interesting. They were brought in the shop for some minor repairs a couple weekss ago and becausse they werte unusual I assked about their origin. this is what their owner said.
They were made by Tenorio, the mosst famous boot maker in Madrid, Spain, who in his cellar had wooden lasts of the feet of clients like Ernest Hemingway, Ava Gardner and famous bullfighters ect. They mostly made hunting and riding boots. Unfortunately they went out of business a few yearss ago.
My cusstomer said he was in Cuba a few years ago and visited Hemingway's house. He ssaid there were a pair of Tenorio boots in the closet.
He ssaid he thinks the design may have originated in Salamanca becausse they are called Salamanca boots.

,,,

I'm obviously having trouble figuring out how to post pictures. If I figure it out I will sshow you the resst of the pictures. I don't know how that first one managed to get done.

Don

Don,

There is a Test area for just the very purpose of experimenting with the formatting.

Also, the photo is too big. It needs to be 6"x4" (roughly) at 72 dots per inch or 640x480 dpi.

Emmett

I will try the ssalamanca pictures again,,,

Don,

Is the boot made of two pieces,front and back or more?

Nasser

A pair of 19th century basketball shoes was apparently found at an estate sale recently:

http://www.cafeterra.info/2009/07/worlds-first-basketball-sneakers.html

According to the article they were made by the Colchester Rubber Company around 1892, the company went out of business in 1893

Image from the article, in case it dissappears

If it is not a media hack, they are unbelievable conditions. Too clean, to nice.. I would say it is a hoax.

I found a video about it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rz-k2ENd5pU

This is great: after 1 year of Basketball's born, they already started to make shoes, with perfect rubber soles, heat activated or press glues. Moreover: these great shoe-researchers had time to make a nice video about this (great condition and very recent design) shoes! Wow!

Hopefully this great gentleman - due to the big demand - succeed to set up a factory to reproduce these old sneakers. He was really fast: the past few days he founded the company with the old name and started the production (I set up my workshop in years by the way), moreover designed those ancient sneakers in more colours:

http://www.colchesterrubberco.com/clients.html

Allow me, please, to embellish this question for discussion with a setting.

My wife and I were at a Rug Boutique/Gallery Opening the other evening here in Prescott, AZ. And there was a table of very fine fellows from Scottsdale AZ, one of whom was one of the artists being featured with his beautiful copper sculptures. Wellit appears they became interested in the St. Crispin story.
As I was speaking about how he preached the gospel by day and made shoes by night, it ocurred to me that I didn't know the style of shoes made in that 3rd(?) century old Europe.

What was the style and do you have any other such embellishments for the next unlikely time I get to be such a center of attention? Everyboby always responds to the "Hugh's Bones" part.

TIA,
Paul