miscellaneous tips, advice, and cautions

[uncle_bob]

And the mountain

3248.jpg

[das]

Hey Uncle Bob,

Glad you came down off that mountain. I'm sure you have tales to tell. My private e-mail and phone numbers are the same. Contact me. We'll pop a couple of Hienies your end or mine, and catch up on whatzupppp.

Got a buddy down here who's dying for some of your spare machinery too, so it'd be worth your while

Al

[tomo]

Dan,
I've messed around with No.6's for over 30 years, and I've never seen a rein rounder. How well does it work?
With regard to the gaiters, yeah, you're right about the style. I'd bought her a pair of chapettes last year 'cause I was short on time but the gaiters I'll make as I think they'll be a good exercise prior to making long riding boots.
Hadn't thought about making a canvas fitter's model though, sounds like a good idea.

DW thanks for your encouragement, I see what you mean about the size of the calf. Might have to cut two 'calves' so that I can cut them over centre...
Just got to finish a set of serving hobbles for some miniture ponies.
Thanks guys.
More power to y'awl.
T.

[erickgeer]

I just received a sample of Upaco 1812, and I was surprised to see it labeled "synthetic Latex."
Is this right? I understand Latex to be temporary at best - is this stuff that different?

I won't be able to test it out for a couple weeks at least.

Erick

[Craig Corvin]

Hello everyone - First time poster on the discussion board.

I'm looking for some tips on creating a nice folded edge on the topline, such as how wide of a skived edge to make and how to fold over the leather especially when using a thicker width. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Craig Corvin

[dw]

Craig,

First off, welcome to the Crispin Colloquy, I just got back from Santa Fe, so I'm tardy in catching up on forum discussions..

There must be half a dozen ways to fold the edge although most bootmakers, and many shoemakers, as well, use a bead rather than a folded edge. The width of your skive is almost unimportant although naturally, the wider the skive the more material you will have to deal with and the greater risk of "bunching" or deviation from the proposed topline.

I skive no wider than half inch. This gives me a quarter inch foldover...and *that* may be a bit excessive. I've seen books detailing a maximum width of quarter inch--yielding an eighth inch foldover. Really, all you have to do is turn enough to catch it under the edge stitching.

Really, the central issue is *how* to skive. My own philosophy is that the skive ought to go to an absolute feather. And that when folded, the edge ought to be no thicker than the unskived leather. And that's the real trick especially if you are doing this by hand. Because the leather has to be a little less than half the thickness of the original at the line of fold. (sorry...it's early in the morning)

As for folding, I believe most makers do it by eye and by hand. Some use a bone to aid the process. Rubber cement along the skived edge. In my view, the critical issue is that the folding must be in advance of the edge, so to speak. In other words, using the fingers of my left hand, I fold the material over along the line I want the edge to be, but I do not immediately press it down. Once the skived edge is "rolled over," it is held in position while the fingers of the right hand press the skived edge into the cement. You need to keep that edge in position but uncemented all the way or you'll get twists in the folded edge.

This is very hard to describe but as an exercise, try making a top bead for practice. Cut a strip of thin leather (or split a piece of heavier--it should end up about two ounce) half to five-eighths inch wide, and twelve to eighteen inches long.. Skive both edges. Rubber cement the whole strip on the flesh side. When dry, fold one edge over so that it is one-eighth inch shy of the other edge. Use the method described above...or, if you want to see how badly things can go wrong, don't.... When everything is folded over and set, take a pinking sheer and pink the edge. Voila! Instant topline bead.

Applying this procedure to a topline edge is all in your eye and in your ability to control the "line" (topline) of the fold.

Hope this helps...

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[Craig Corvin]

Thanks for the great tips - I'll give it a try on my next pair.

Craig Corvin

[Craig Corvin]

Landis Splitter Help Needed!

I'm having problems with my landis 6 inch splitter - when I put a piece of leather into the machine and start cranking, it pulls the piece to the right and then stops dead regardless how much I crank.

I've tried adjusting everything I can think of but haven't been able to solve the problem - it even has a new blade.

What do I need to do to fix this? Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Craig Corvin

[erickgeer]

Craig,

Is the material stopping, or is the entire works not turning?

How is the condition of the lower roller? I thought the teeth were sharp on mine, but it turned out that I had to replace the roller.

Erick

[dw]

Craig,

Number one...do you have a users manual? If so read it carefully and make sure everything is adjusted just as it says in the manual.

I had the same problem with my Landis. I ended up doing three things that helped immensely and cured my problem.

First, I backed the blade off. It's tempting to push the blade into the body of the machine until it bumps up against the frame. Not good and the manual recommends that there be some clearance.

Second, I made sure that the blade was level and clearing the roller evenly on both sides. Again, I think the manual tells you how to do this but the two bolts on the top of the machine control this adjustment, as well as the resulting thickness of the leather to be split. In other words you need to set your machine so that it splits a 11-12 iron sole to 1/8" when the machine is set to 6 iron. Look at the blade from the front and see that the blade is riding level before you calibrate for thickness. Then turn these bolts equally.

Third, and most important, I backed off on the tension of the feed roller. This is controlled by the heavy springs on either side of the machine. It seems counter-intuitive but less equals more in this case. Too much pressure on the springs and the leather will jam. It's hard to adjust these springs but it can be done. I cranked both of mine up so tight I knew immediately...I could hear and feel...that it was not working right. Then I went the other way. I had to even out the tension on one side as well so a little more "loosening" on one side than the other worked for me.

I had this "one side jamming" problem for a long time. Created mostly by my own ignorant tightening of the springs trying to achieve a better more consistent result. But I was gong about it like a blind man in a china shop. And backwards too. When I finally got a manual and decided to put the thing to rights, once and for all, it works better than I can remember it working in the 30+ years I've owned it.

[BTW, the teeth on my bottom roller are chipped, dented and not sharp...not that getting a new bottom roller isn't a good idea...]

Hope that helps.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[Craig Corvin]

Thanks for your quick responses - you just might have saved this poor machine from being thrown over the side of a bridge in frustration!

Erick - Just the material is stopping. The lower roller is pretty worn and probably needs to be replaced. Where did you find your replacement?

DW - Unfortunately no manual came with my machine. Wait, they came with a manual?! Where might I find one? I'll give the adjustments you suggest a go and let you know how things turn out.

Many many thanks!,
Craig Corvin

[Craig Corvin]

Follow-up Question.

Any idea how the two nuts that are directly above the heavy springs on each side should be positioned?

So mostly the tension adjustments will be made by using the two bolts that are below the heavy springs?

Thanks,
Craig Corvin

[dw]

Craig,

The two nuts directly above the heavy springs are the nuts I adjusted to tune my splitter. I've never fooled with the bolts below the springs.

BTW, I have a Landis manual in jpg format...six jpgs running to 8mb. [Ungrateful wretch that I am, I can remember just this moment who I got it from but it was a generous and kind soul on this very forum...so I'm just returning the favor.] I can email them as attachments if you send me your email address. But be aware that adjusting the springs is one issue the manual doesn't seem to cover.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[sharon raymond]

Greetings, There is an article that may be of interest in the Boston Globe this am (www.boston.com), "Czech shoe specialist revives 5300-year-old-classic", about recreating the shoes of the man found in an alpine glacier.

[danfreeman]

I saw the Globe article--Oetzi got a new pair of shoes. HCC Member Petr Hlavacek has caused a local (in the Czech Rep.) harnessmaker (couldn't find a shoemaker, I suppose) to make several copies of these unique shoes. Even Thornton's speculative history of the development of the shoe doesn't cover this unique construction; a woven framework of twigs, stuffed inside with grass or hay--must be the right type--then fitted into a soft leather outer shoe, a moccasin or "footbag," really. I oversimplify greatly.
A trip through the frozen Alps, the travellers shod in these shoes only, apparently caused no discomfort, good traction, and no frostbite.

[danfreeman]

Craig,
I had this trouble until I started doing it in stages: especially with hard sole leather, you just can't cut 5 or 6 irons off it in one pass. unless maybe you have a perfect new splitter, properly adjusted for that work.
I split off 1 or 2 irons, tighten the screw, split off 1 or 2 more, and so on.
When I'm splitting the buckle end of belts (I take 9--10 oz butt, and split about a quarter of it off), I must reduce the tension on the splitter roller, or it will just compress the softer bridle leather.

[Craig Corvin]

Dan,

I'll try that out and see if that helps with the denser stuff. The bottom roller on my machine is pretty warn so I think I'll have to do this in 2 iron steps.

Thanks to D.W. kindly sending me the manual for the machine, I've got it working pretty well now!

For those who are interested in having a copy of the manual, I've created a PDF version and it looks like I could upload it to this message board as an attachment - I should probably ask permission first though because it's pretty large - 1 meg.

D.W., is this alright?

Thanks,
Craig Corvin

[dw]

Craig,

Well, I wanted to post manuals on the HCC website over a year ago. But word came down from HCC HQ that there was some question regarding copyright.

There are many sites on the net that post manuals for sewing machines and other discontinued equipment (most such manuals were never copyrighted). In fact nearly the whole computer industry is dependent upon such sites for information regarding obsolete video cards, "out of print" software, etc.. Without question, it would be a great service and right up our line if we could offer a one-stop shop for such material. But the HCC is a non-profit, and as such we cannot ever afford take the risk of losing that status.

So, I regret to say that the bottom line is that no such materials may be posted or sponsored by the HCC.

However, if you wish to store the pdf on your website and on your server there is nothing to prevent you from posting a link to that pdf manual here. It would be a welcome service to the Trade and greatly appreciated by many, I know.


Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[Craig Corvin]

Landis Splitter Manual:

Landis_Model_30.pdf (1 meg)

[meaculpa]

NOTE: Forgive the double-posting, but it seems my first post was lost in the dark annals of cyberspace.

Good morning and hello to all,

I am currently making belts and am having some issues with lack of experience with the best materials to use.

Question 1 - Burnishing edges.

I tried using the Fiebing's Edge Kote on the edges of my belts, but even with buffing, it rubs off on surfaces when some moisture is present. Sometimes those surfaces happen to be white shirts, which is a big problem. I've seen some belts with an almost rubbery edge on them, like a polyurethane, but that almost seems cheap to me. Am I mistaken?

When I tried using things like the Edge Kote it seemed like it was nothing more than a simple dye. Am I just not burnishing the edges enough?

Question 2 - Sealers

I see some of you use hand-painting techniques in your cordwaining, especially on cowboy boots. What do you use to ensure that paint does not rub off. I have obtained two kinds of acrylic "sealer" but I haven't yet had a chance to test it out. Would something like this work on top of a waxed surface?

Should I be exploring another possibility? This is essentially for the very purpose of painting on a leather and then ensuring it never (or at least, not soon) rubs off.

Thank you all for taking the time!

Regards,

Dimitri

[tomo]

Does anyone have any experience in the following.
I have a friend (yes I know that's suprising) but this friend has a pair of long black riding boots that have had the heel counter break down.

The boots are in great condition and I think are worth resurrecting even just for the expierence.

What I want to do is pull the heel and outer sole (part of which has come adrift from the welt anyway), seperate the lining and insert new heel counters, then rebuild them.

Does anyone have any comments or suggestions
More power to y'awl.
T.

[dw]

Tom,

I'm no expert on this type of boot, but if the heel stiffeners broke down didn't the counter lining rip out too? If so, my first inclination (aside from refusing to work on such a boot) would be to sew an 11 iron soling leather heel stiffener in directly--instead of, in place of, the lining and inserted counter.

You'd get more long term stability, cut at least one step and much of the hassle out of the repair job you are gonna undertake, and the final product would be much closer to top shelf riding boots than the original construction.

Just a thought...

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

(Message edited by dw on September 23, 2005)

(Message edited by dw on September 23, 2005)

[dw]

Tom,

Sorry for the typo's...I edited the post to correct them

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[tomo]

Thanks DW,
Yes you're correct from what I saw, the lining had come adrift when the original heel counter broke through.

So would the new stiffener then, be sewn on top of what was left of the lining and old stiffener and would this then be in direct contact with the wearer's heel?

Also, when I sewed the new counter in, would I sew right through the outer of the boot as well?

If this is the case, how is the bottom edge of the new stiffener sewn in? If this was sewn through the outer of the boot too, wouldn't the boot still move or distort on the line between the counter and insole and cause the wearer to still walk over the heel - I'm asuming that the bottom edge of the new heel counter is not skived only the top radius?

More power to y'awl.
T.

[relferink]

Tom,

I think I personally would prefer to take the boot apart and insert a new counter if the boot is in good enough shape or you just feel like tackling a challenge. The only way I would even attempt this if I could find a last to re-last the boot during reconstruction. This will give you a chance to rebuild the bottoms and take care of your welt separation.
How is the boot constructed? If the insole and inseam (if applicable) are in good shape don’t even take it apart beyond what you need to get the heel counter in. I would pre-mold the counter on a last so when you fit it in you don’t have to put to much stress on the boot since the last you would be using is likely not the original. The ripped lining can be glued to the counter when you slide it in (use enough baby powder on the last not to glue the counters to the last) and when your done just add a heel lining with contact cement from the inside of the boot, you wouldn’t have to sew it in if you can’t get to it.
I have never tried anything like this on a riding boot but tried similar “surgery” on a high shoe with reasonable success. I have to say that the result seems to be mostly depended on the last you can find to rebuild on. I’ve also once tried using plaster, to make up for not having a last . I filled the shoe (boot) with a plastic bag and poured in plaster, later broke it apart and got all the pieces out. It is not hard enough to really work on and the shape it takes as the plaster sets in the bag is not very controllable. The idea sounded good at the time but didn’t quite work out. Found it a worthwhile experience, if nothing else I now know it doesn’t work.


DW,

When you slide it the counter as you suggest, how do you make sure the stability of the upper and counter in comparison to the bottom will stay in tact. Would you wet mold the counter over a last and once dry(isch) insert it? Any special treatment to the grain of the soling material since you doesn’t what the very edges to curl in and cut into the foot.

Rob