Tools of the Trade

[tjburr]

DW,

The suggestion of a concave toe block is a great idea! I totally missed thinking about that part and was worrying about the back part.

With the slot that you show, would you be able to use this with an ankle high and have the top go through the slot? Or would that cause bad pressure?

After looking at all the pictures in the book, I do not think the upper is touching anywhere except on the toe.

If you use a soft leather like you say for protection, I would think the pressure would not be any more than you would get on the drawdown strap. In fact given the drawdown strap would be going through the same slot, the pressure would probably be against the drawdown strap since it is between the last and the slot sides. This would offer more protection to the shoe.

The only drawback may be when you go to pegging the heel area. In the case of the book where the cone is resting on the board, all the force from the hammer is just pressing the cone top against the board. With the slot, you would be hammering against the drawdown strap, sides of the slot and cone. Since the strap would be forward of the heel you might also get some vibration since essentially the heel would not really be pressing against the sides (really hard to draw, but let me take a try at it)

10197.jpg

Thanks for spending some time and relaying your insights. I think I will be making one in the near future and any ideas to incorporate are appreciated.

The design you show above would be quite simple to make, and it is amazing how often being simple is better. The slot would also allow for quick slipping in and out of the drawdown strap.

Now that you have mentioned it, I have seen a lapjack in action. I just did not connect the picture since the word "lapjack" brought a different image.

Terry

[dw]

Terry,

You have the idea in detail. Good drawing and I think your assumptions are spot on.

No, I don't think pegging on this inseaming board would be easy. Maybe if you slipped a piece of hard leather or another short section of board under the cone. But while the board would work good for inseaming even ankle high shoes, you'd run into problems pegging ankle high shoes.

That's why as good as this solution seems to be, I'd still prefer to at least have a lapjack on hand, if not do everything on the jack to begin with.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[relferink]

I also had to pull out the book, go to the page and wonder why I had not noticed it before. In fact I have never seen such a contraption used or come across such a tool in old makers tools.
Not to undermine or undo any of the ideas worked out in such wonderful detail above; I tend to agree with Erick that this may be more of a photographic aid than a shoemakers tool.
I was taught to inseam on the knee with a strap holding down the shoe and it's a wonderful way to “feel” what you are doing. It does however make for an odd and poor photographic angle, specifically if you want to use it for a book like HMSFM.
Just looking at it I'm not sure I even want to try it as I doubt that I will be able to hold my work secure enough, too much of a chance of the shoe with last sliding on the board, even with the cone in the slot. In my lap it's secure and I can feel where it will go before it even starts to move but that's the way I was taught, that has a tendency to stick once you get beyond the awkwardness you experience at first.

Still I'm curious to hear feedback from those willing to try it.

Just my
Rob

[dw]

Rob,

As long as I'm in a speculative mood this morning...I would respectfully disagree. I have no experience with this board or this concept but If the edges of the slot were covered with leather--a soft leather such as a lining leather--I don't see any reason why the shoe should slip. The drawdown strap will hold it firmly in place.

I have inseamed on my knee, singular, and between my knees, plural, and in my minds eye (imagination), I see the shoe in roughly the same position as it would be if it were held between the knees. The board, however, would relieve the maker of having to keep his knees clamped tight together. And at the same time allow the maker to apply more pressure to the drawdown strap. The board resting on the knees would allow a stability and security that might be missing for some makers less practiced with inseaming on the knee. And because it can be turned some of that awkwardness you refer to would be eliminated.

Parenthetically, I have what I spuriously call a "pin rack" (for its superficial resemblance to the real thing) set up in front of my bench. It is essentially a long length of board with slots cut into it at regular intervals but otherwise very much like the proposed inseaming board. Each slot is lined with leather to protect the sides of the boot. I hang boots which are in various stages of completion in those slots. I also stage lasts in the slots. Except for size five lasts and smaller none of them ever fall through the slots in my pinrack. And when the size five lasts are made into boots they don't fall through either. It is because I have been using this pinrack for several decades that I feel emboldened to comment on this at length.

I think the concept would work very well even if it is not an actually a working tool at the Vass shop.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[dw]

PS for Terry...

Responding to Rob, I remembered something that may help you if you construct something like this. Cut your slots so they get narrower as they get further from the top surface of the board. This will add security and lasts are shaped like that anyway. Also take into consideration the thickness of the leather you will be adding at the edges of the slot...it's more than you think.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[tjburr]

Thanks for the encouragement and suggestions. I hope to start another pair of shoes this next weekend and I was thinking I might try one of these boards.

I was actually thinking of trying two versions
1) as DW describes - thanks for the extra suggestions on cutting the slot
2) similar to the book but with a metal pin to hold the thimble in place - possibly as an add-on to the first board mainly to support pegging

All my previous work has been with a drawdown strap and held between my knees. Unfortunately I have a slightly bad left knee, and since I am still fairly slow I have difficulty holding it in position between my knees for the period it takes to welt without causing issues (and my control goes down hill as this occurs). I have not had lots of experience, so I suspect repeated use would improve my abilities and build the proper muscles and help.

It was my hope that this would offer that extra support as DW suggests.

Since I am not real experienced in lasting shoes, I am not sure that my feedback will be perfect, but I will let you know. I should at least be able to provide feedback on if the shoe seems to be controllable, allows for me to keep more pressure on the shoe, and hopefully gives me longer staying power.

My shoe making time is very limited, so unfortunately it is likely to be a few weeks before I can test it out. I will post the boards as they are completed.

Terry

[dw]

Terry,

I started one of these too. Not because I need it but because I am curious and as a "proof of concept" kind of thing.

I started with a 12" x'12" piece of 5/8" plywood. I cut a 1-1/4" slot with a rounded end about six inches long and centered on one edge. Then I took a microplane and beveled the edge of the slot so that it was roughly 2" wide on the top surface but still 1-1/4" wide on the bottom. Angled the round part of the slot, too.

Then I cut a strip of 4 oz. cream cow about three times as long as the edge of the slot and about 3" wide. I tacked one edge, fleshside up, right up next to the top edge of the slot. Rolled the leather over itself, and the edge of the slot, and pulled it under the board. Tacked it down and trimmed.

I haven't put the forepart rest on yet but....

I don't have a lot of shoe lasts and I intended this to be for shoes only because the cone and comb are typically wider on a boot last than on a shoe last. The smallest I have is a 6A and the largest is an 11EE. Both fit in the padded slot very well. And when I throw the drawdown strap over the last and pull it through and tight with my left foot...I can guarantee you that neither one of these lasts are coming out of the slot. The 6A sits a tiny bit low but not bad and the 11EE sits pretty good.

Of course, without the forepart rest there is still some lateral movement that might be a problem but a feller might be able to inseam on this board just as it is.

My only concern is that I using bare naked lasts. If I had a chukka or a ankle high balmoral on either of these lasts how would they sit in the slot?

Anyway, I'll post photos when I get it done.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[tjburr]

DW,

That sounds very encouraging. I would love to see photos.

I find it particularly helpful since I am not sure I am experienced enough to know if the results will be as sturdy as I should have long term, since I know that my use of a knee and pulldown strap is not as sturdy as experience would provide. Having you provide this feedback provides wonderful insight, and I very much appreciate it.

The measurements are very helpful, since I will be using this with an 11 1/2 EE to start with. I will take the thickness of leathers I plan on using, including the roll and make some measurements on my last and make a quick comparison to your measurements, but it sounds like starting with the measurements you used might be a good starting point and widen if needed. I guess if I got it too wide I could add an extra layer of leather on one or both sides.

I had been wondering if long term I would need to make an adjustable one, maybe out of aluminum, to adjust width, or possibly make several since they would be easy to make after the first. However given your description there may be no need to worry about this.

I was also thinking that if I were to drill two holes where the toe block was to go, I could make several heights of toe blocks and use dowels glued in the holes but with unglued holes in the blocks. I could then change them out. I figure only experience will tell if this is even needed though. Based on the 6A and 11EE do you think this would be required?

I had been debating a piece of plywood or a regular board myself. I knew that a piece of plywood would take the strain better. I was guessing that unless I obtained a high quality board I would probably have to worry about splitting. I was wondering though if I would want to cover the edges some so that thread did not catch - maybe a nice use for scrap leather.

I particularly like the slot idea you have suggested since I was considering trying to make something a little higher for my next pair (I was playing around with a modified jodphur pattern). After consideration, a pin in the back with a board more like in the book would require a method to raise the shoe and that would raise it higher in the lap than I think would be comfortable for use.

Just curious; Will you be making it to the AGM this year? My wife is extremely supportive in my shoe making activities and has encouraged me to attend again this year. I am greatly looking forward to checking out Sturbridge Village and all the wonderful demos planned. In addition to shoe making, it never hurts to find out if there will be people interested in a wee dram

Terry

[dw]

Terry,

Re: AGM...no, not this year. You may remember we have a dog. We can't leave her, we can't fly her and it's a long drive from the upper left hand corner to the other side of the country. Maybe, hopefully, next year if the meeting is in Delevan.

I like your ideas for an interchangeable toe rest. I toyed with that idea too.

What I am struggling with is that my shoe lasts have an "inside cone" which means that when the cone of the last is slotted securely, the toe of the last is off center to the slot. So a toe rest centered on the slot, esp. if it is concave will not be in the best position for my lasts. If I slide it so that the toe rest in centered under the toe of the left hand last, for instance, then it is way out of position for the right last. Maybe just a straight, unshaped, toe rest would be better especially if it is well padded with dense (not Cloud) crepe or thick felt under the leather. That concave toe rest was always a fanciful notion anyway--it's not there in the book.

That or pinning the toe rest off center so that it can rotate to accommodate the left hand last and then rotate 180° to accommodate the right hand last.

Reverse engineering this is called.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[dw]

Terry,

PS...(or two PS's)

I'm not sure you need the pin with this contraption. From what I have so far, it is surely as secure and solid as pegging on your knee. I think you could easily peg or do anything you might do on the knee just as easily using this board.

Regarding AGM...I am sure that there are more than a few others who would enjoy a wee dram...always.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[paul]

I will.

[dw]

Terry,

So...I finished my "lapboard." Not fancy and I'm sure that anyone could improve upon it. I may never use this all that extensively. As I said I did it out of curiousity and as a proof of concept. So I did it kind of fast and no frills.

I decided to make the forepart rest wider and all one height...not concave. I have a 1/2" layer of fairly dense felt inder the leather to act as a cushion of sorts.

I fine sanded the edges and coated them with press cement, then fine sanded them again going all the way to 1000 grit Abralon. Smooth as silk.

As you can see in the following photos, the board sits comfortably on my thighs (I have a bad left knee as well) and with the last held down quite firmly by the drawdown strap, the weight is distributed evenly.

10221.jpg

10222.jpg

10223.jpg

All in all, a very interesting exercise, not at all expensive and promising to be more useful than its simplicity might suggest.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[romango]

I've been lurking on this thread.

DW, your board looks nice and functional.

I think a version like this would be interesting too.

10225.jpg

[dw]

Rick,

I like the idea. I played around with something similar, but in the end decided to go the way I did.

The thing that bothered me and made me leave the pin off...and the question I have to ask...is that since the pin is fixed (or is it?) wouldn't that mean that shorter or longer lasts would locate over the forepart rest a little differently? In other words if a size 12 fits on the pin such that there is a half inch of toe overhang on the forepart rest, where will the toe of a size five hit the forepart rest?

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[romango]

I'm gonna guess that the wise ones from HMSFM solved this by having the config I showed but without the pin.

That is, the flat surface on the top of the cone just rests on the board.

I actually worry about your design that the slot will not work with all last widths. Are you depending on the slot to stop the last before you hit leather?

If not, I would worry about the effect of the strap on the leather where the two are strongly compressed into the slot.

Does this make any sense?

[dw]

Rick,

Well, yes, that's possible but then the point of doing it this way was to accommodate a ankle high boot such as a chukka or Chelsea or Jodhpur. It would defeat the purpose if the top of the boot were "smushed" down on the board.

Actually I'm not sure that the compression of the drawdown strap against the side of the boot is all that much reason for concern. I don't think I could pull that hard. When you inseam on your knee you have a bit of the same thing--the drawdown strap is pulling over the shoe and along the sides. Granted it is not compressed against the side of shoe and the side of the slot simultaneously but again I don't see this being that great a problem. If it were to prove otherwise, you could simply strip off the leather covering the slot, rasp the slot wider and pad that edge with crepe or felt before re-covering the edges of the slot...or build it that way to begin with. Crepe padding cemented securely to the edge of the slot and then covered with leather would definately address your concerns with compression and might even make fitting larger sizes of lasts (larger than 11EE) a little more certain.

As for the slot being the right width, it will never hold all lasts the same but it will hold a size 11EE securely and a 6A securely. Anything smaller and all you would have to do is insert/drape some scrap leather around the slot to tighten it up a bit and away you go.

Well, this was always gonna be a prototype and as I said, I am certain it can be improved upon. The thing to remember is that it is not an alternative to a lapjack except in the narrowest sense...it is an alternative to doing it on your knee.


Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[tjburr]

DW,

As I was reading the posts since the last time I was able to log in, I was amazed by your progress.

For an "interesting exercise" the setup looks quite polished to me.

To see it in action, and to have your feedback has helped immensely on this. I must also say that this forum and the ability to bounce ideas and get feedback is a wonderful tool. The people on here are incredible in their willingness to help....maybe time for a round of dram's Paul; I am glad to hear you are coming and willing to celebrate another fine year.

Speaking of which; I now remember your discussion last year with your dog. You will be missed, along with the others out there that are unable to come and "listening" in.

Even though I had a very long day yesterday, I have a 40 minute drive to and from work, giving me time to think about this. I had wondered about the placement of the toe block myself, since my lasts would require asymmetric placement as well. Since I was looking at making it interchangeable, I had considered glueing the dowels into the block and drilling two sets of holes in the board depending on the last. Your solution looks to have addressed it well, with a quite simple design approach.

Rick;

In my thinking of using a peg, I had come to the conclusion that DW mentions relative to ankle high shoes. I know that I could make the peg area adjustable to sort of create a platform similar to a post machines sewing area and mount the peg for ankle high shoes, I was just a little concerned that the angle at which the boot would be sitting in the lap would be higher than I would like.

To solve the different length problem with the peg if figured that the interchangeable toe block could also have several rows of holes to allow moving it forward and aft. My main concern was that if it went too far forward the hold in the center would not be big enough.

If you look closely at the pictures in HMSFM, you will notice that in some cases their are two pieces of thick leather; one on each side of the cone. It was my guess that this was located to provide some side-to-side stability. This would probably provide a little of the same effect that DW's slot provides, but without the ability to use a taller upper.

My next pair is going to be an ankle high, So figured I will see how DWs approach works first and hopefully can provide some feedback on the effects on the upper. Of course if you get interested and try the peg, that can provide feedback from multiple directions with several modifications!

I am excited by the prospect and I am looking forward to building and trying one out on my next pair of shoes. With luck I will decide on a pattern for the next pair and get them started this weekend.

My wife and I are doing a spring cleaning this weekend (much of it centered on the garage), so hopefully I will be able to clear out the woodworking tools and get to the pile of wood I have to also work on my setup. We have a 4 year old and I would swear that all the old toys over the last 4 years have accumulated in the garage, making it impossible to maneuver.

Terry

[tjburr]

DW,

I thought I would put this in a separate post since it is connected to comments you made, but not directly connected.

Your comments on the lapjack

The thing to remember is that it is not an alternative to a lapjack except in the narrowest sense...it is an alternative to doing it on your knee.

got me wondering...

1) What are the pros and cons of the lapjack vs using the drawdown strap and the knee

[tjburr]

Everyone,

Just in case you were just listening, I thought I would separate the second one out

2) Are there other methods you use that have different advantages and disadvantages
Table mount
Having a student hold the last
...

Well now I must finish my hamburger lunch and go back to work. Sometimes any line of work needs elves...there are days I wished I had them.

Terry

[dw]

Terry,

Give me a lapjack like the one I posted several days ago and I can do everything on it with the exception of hand sewing the outsole. I don't need the board...wouldn't even consider the board.

With the lapjack I have leverage to last. I have easy access from many different angles. I have maneuverability. Add a drawdown strap and I have a stability that is not equaled in the board nor on the knee.

I can peg on the lapjack, nail on the lapjack, cut the channel, hole the insole, inseam, mount the outsole, mount the heel layers...there's probably much that I'm forgetting.

The board is a one-trick pony (or maybe two) but if you don't have a thimble in the comb of your lasts, it's the board or your knee.

And I designed the new version of the lapjack so that ankle boots such as chukkas could easily be accommodated without any bending or distortion of the tops.


Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[tjp]

Does anyone have a picture of a last-maker's bench knife. Golding I (page 204-206) has some information and a drawing of the knife but not a picture. I am especially interested in how convex/concave the blade is and how the bevel is made.

[lancepryor]

Here are a few pics. I believe the back is hollow ground, the front more conventionally ground. The edge is sharpened with a file. You can see the back of a knife in the pic of the short last knife hanging on the wall. I don't think anyone makes these anymore; I've been told you need a tunnel forge to make them.

I think you might be able to somehow get a separate knife part and rivet it or otherwise attach it to a handle and eye hook part, though that is just speculation on my part.

The knife pictured is over 100 years old and comes, I believe from the old Peal company in London.

10487.jpg

10488.jpg

10489.jpg

10490.jpg

You can also see some pics of a French last knife on this site: http://www.anthonydelos.com/2en.aspx
You can click on the pics for a bigger version.

lance

[1947redhed]

There's a great little book on clog making that has some pictures of the knives in use and from old prints.
It's called L'Arte Di Fabbricare Gli Zoccoli written in Italian and English
Here's a scan of a page. www.polistampa.com is listed as publisher's contact

10494.jpg

[tjp]

Thanks Georgene and Lance,

The magic word seems to be clogmaking. There are some videos on Youtube on clogmaking where you can see the tool in use.

Jeremy Atkinson has written a book titled "Clogs and Clogmaking".

I think I have to find one of those knives...

-TJP

[tjburr]

Everyone,

My wife sometimes finds shoe related tools on ebay and brings them to my attention.

There is one currently up that I was curious what the tool does. An unknown tool always catches my eye

Does anyone know what this is?

Link to Ebay item

Terry
HCC Member