Top patterns/stitching

Share secrets, compare techniques, discuss the merits of materials--eg. veg vs. chrome--and above all, seek knowledge.
Post Reply
Message
Author
User avatar
dw
Seanchaidh
Posts: 5830
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 1997 10:00 am
Full Name: DWFII
Location: Redmond, OR
Has Liked: 204 times
Been Liked: 122 times
Contact:

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#126 Post by dw »

Hell, Jake, there ain't a dern thing wrong with that stitching! I mean it. Look again...the stitching is straight, the plug probably got a little distorted during skiving, is all.

As for skiving, if I may....remember that you have to stitch the inlay. Just as close as Jake shows in his photo above. The stiching wants to be through full thickness (or close to it). So on some leathers, like water buffalo, you might do a little wider skive and on thin leathers, like kangaroo, you might want it a little narrower.

Also for the glue...sometimes there's nothing for it but to take a narrow modeling tool or a "dull" marking awl and roll the cement out of there a little bit at a time. Best done after the inlay is stitched. It can be a pain when you have a real extensive inlay, though Image

For those looking in on this wonderful essay...don't let Jake fool ya...this is purty good work!

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
User avatar
jake
7
7
Posts: 544
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 1998 7:01 pm
Full Name: Jake
Location: Mountain View, Arkansas, USA

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#127 Post by jake »

Dee-Dubb,

Appreciate you clarifying the skiving. This is all kangaroo, so my widths are relevant to the particular situation. I'm always glad to have your input.

Yeap....I think you're right. My plug is the culprit. Don't know exactly if it was the skiving or what. But this leads me to make a further point. When you go to "glue" in your plugs, you may want to use "all-purpose" cement. When it dries, those puppies are there!

Any-who, I appreciate your kind words. When you step back a few inches, the inlay is not as bad as you see UP CLOSE. But I was wanting everyone to see all the details, for better or worse, and see how smooth the inlay lays.

Once again, my main objective was not to spotlight my work, but to shed some light on a technique, which by the way, was handed down to me.
User avatar
dw
Seanchaidh
Posts: 5830
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 1997 10:00 am
Full Name: DWFII
Location: Redmond, OR
Has Liked: 204 times
Been Liked: 122 times
Contact:

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#128 Post by dw »

All,

Not only is the inlay work beyond reproach, but folks, I think it important to tell you that one hell of a lot of work goes into doing up one of these photo essays. And time. And focus. And dedication. Not only must you do the work itself, but you have to have the perspicacity to decide which shots are critical and convey the most information. And add to that, you need to be able to present an explanation lucidly enough that it makes sense to the greatest number of people. Ideally, the description alone should create an image in the mind that is nearly better than a photo.

All that takes talent, and skill, and a willingness to reach out and help other people that goes beyond the ordinary. It an "art" that few people take the time or effort to develop. Jake is literally "opening a vein" here...I congratulate and sincerely thank him for his efforts. He'll never be paid enough but his contributions are invaluable.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
User avatar
plugnickle
1
1
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 1998 7:01 pm
Full Name: Steve
Location: Bastrop, LA, U.S.A.

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#129 Post by plugnickle »

Your work looks great, Jake. This inlay is literally under the proverbial microscope. It seems to me that every artist is their own worse critic, or should be. If I can come anywhere close to satisfying myself, then seldom is anyone else disappointed.

Again, thank you for the outstanding presentation.

Steve
lancepryor
7
7
Posts: 662
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2004 6:42 am
Full Name: lance pryor
Been Liked: 3 times

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#130 Post by lancepryor »

Jake:

First of all, thanks for your great work. It's a super explanation of your process.

A couple of questions -- I apologize for my ignorance, but my (limited) knowledge is more in shoemaking than bootmaking.

1. If you are doing a color other than that of the lining, what do you do? Is a plug of that color cut to the specific shape of the cut-out, or is a skived rectangle (or whatever) of the material simply glued to the grain side of the lining?

2. Does the 'plug' that is glued to the flesh side of the lining just stay attached by the rubber cement? I shouldn't think the stitching touches these plugs, as the dimension of the plug is smaller than where the stitching is. (Or does this plug not even get used when another color is inserted between lining and cut-out?

3. When you say "lay in your top bead" what does this mean? What is the "top bead"?

Thanks.
Lance Pryor
User avatar
jake
7
7
Posts: 544
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 1998 7:01 pm
Full Name: Jake
Location: Mountain View, Arkansas, USA

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#131 Post by jake »

Dee-Dubb,

WOW! I don't really know what to say.....Thank You!

The Crispin Colloquy has been mighty good to me. Many, many have helped me along the way in a most charitable manner. I'm only giving back what has been given to me.

Steve,

You always have a kind and encouraging word. Thank you for taking the time for an "at-a-boy". It goes a long way Partner.
User avatar
jake
7
7
Posts: 544
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 1998 7:01 pm
Full Name: Jake
Location: Mountain View, Arkansas, USA

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#132 Post by jake »

Hi Lance,

Welcome! And Thank You!

No reason to apologize. Let's see if I can explain it a little better.

1. Now the plugs I referred to are the "cut-outs" from the top panel. In this instance, it was the "flying A bar" brand. These plugs fit in between the "inlay" material, in this case it was yellow kangaroo, and the liner.

2. The plug is glued to the flesh side of the inlay material. Again, in this case it was the yellow kangaroo. You can use rubber cement or all-purpose cement to cement your plugs in. Right...the stitching doesn't touch the plugs. The plugs are there to bring up the inlay material to lay flush with the top panel. I can actually only feel the stitching when I run my fingers across the inlay.

3. The top bead is the piping that runs along the top of the panel. It's a form of ornamentation. A way to finsh the "raw" cut of the top panel. I make my own, but you can buy it.

Look back at the above pictures and see if this doesn't make things a little clearer.
xenon

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#133 Post by xenon »

Having read this wonderful tutorial, I felt
obligated to go pull out some inlaid boots
belonging to the wife.
I was a little depressed to find that the inlays
on her handmade boots were below grade. Caused
my spirits to sink a bit.
Thanks, Jake, for an inspiring post.
As Dr. Maturin was fond of saying,
"May God set a flower on your head".

Dan
User avatar
dw
Seanchaidh
Posts: 5830
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 1997 10:00 am
Full Name: DWFII
Location: Redmond, OR
Has Liked: 204 times
Been Liked: 122 times
Contact:

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#134 Post by dw »

Dan,

Which I've just finished "The Wine Dark Sea," haven't I?

But, for all love, it's always a pleasure to run across another POB fan. Welcome.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
User avatar
jake
7
7
Posts: 544
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 1998 7:01 pm
Full Name: Jake
Location: Mountain View, Arkansas, USA

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#135 Post by jake »

Welcome Dan! Appreciate your kinds words. Words that motivate me even more to strive for perfection.
Thanks!

Which reminds me of a statement on one of Jay Griffith's old business cards. It started off by saying, "We build the best boots we can, etc., etc.,...", but ended in this quote, "and every once in a while we build one damn near perfect."

This whole process of making footwear is full of "pot-holes" to fall into. So don't be too hard on your wife's bootmaker. You might be surprised to visit his/her shop tommorrow and find one...."damn near perfect!"

Once again, Welcome!
shoestring

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#136 Post by shoestring »

Jake,
everybody else said pretty much what I would have said so all I will add is ,I appreciate the lesson along with the rest of the gang and thanks a bunch,my hat's off to ya.
User avatar
jake
7
7
Posts: 544
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 1998 7:01 pm
Full Name: Jake
Location: Mountain View, Arkansas, USA

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#137 Post by jake »

Lance,

Hope the following helps.

At the bottom of each top panel we give the edge a 5/8" full skive.....skive to nothing!
3205.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
jake
7
7
Posts: 544
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 1998 7:01 pm
Full Name: Jake
Location: Mountain View, Arkansas, USA

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#138 Post by jake »

The top of each panel gets a skant skive....as D.W. stated, it depends on the leather. This panel is kangaroo. Basically we want a transition from the top panel to our top bead. We have to leave some thickness for our stitching.
3207.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
jake
7
7
Posts: 544
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 1998 7:01 pm
Full Name: Jake
Location: Mountain View, Arkansas, USA

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#139 Post by jake »

The top bead goes in between the top panel and liner. Here's the finish product with the top bead just peeking out from the top panel. Notice our stitching securing the top bead and liner.
3209.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
plugnickle
1
1
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 1998 7:01 pm
Full Name: Steve
Location: Bastrop, LA, U.S.A.

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#140 Post by plugnickle »

Jake,
You mention that you make your own bead. What do you use as a core? What is the thickness of the leather? Do you use pinking shears to cut the bottom edge of the bead?

Thanks,
Steve
User avatar
jake
7
7
Posts: 544
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 1998 7:01 pm
Full Name: Jake
Location: Mountain View, Arkansas, USA

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#141 Post by jake »

Steve,

For a core, I use Barbour's 5-cord linen. Yes, I use pinking shears.

Thickness.....well, it's pretty darn thin Steve. If you think about it, all we're doing is finishing the top edge of the panels, so I'm not concerned about strength. Two more reasons to make it thin: allow the top bead to bend easily around the scallop and to keep it thin enough so you won't see it on the lining side (hump).

I skive by hand on all required steps in my footwear. But here is the one area I use my Fortuna skiver. Most top bead, even roo, needs to be thinned down for top bead. And by the way, I still skive the edges down to nothing by hand when I'm done with the Fortuna. Again, it's pretty darn thin! Thinner than you would think!

Hey Ed,

Appreciate your comments. Glad you enjoyed it.
User avatar
jake
7
7
Posts: 544
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 1998 7:01 pm
Full Name: Jake
Location: Mountain View, Arkansas, USA

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#142 Post by jake »

Dee-Dubb,

A while back you were experimenting with needle points and fancy stitching. At the present, what is your normal:

needle point?
size needle?
size thread?

I've been trying the round point for fancy stitching because, in my thinking, we're actually wanting the thread to "sit" more on top of the leather than pulling down into the leather. Thus, we see more of the thread and colour.

Your thoughts? Thanks in advance!
User avatar
plugnickle
1
1
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 1998 7:01 pm
Full Name: Steve
Location: Bastrop, LA, U.S.A.

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#143 Post by plugnickle »

Thanks, Jake.

So I will need to split the leather as thin as possible,without weakening it to the point that it is too weak to stand up to the rubbing that it will receive.

I have problems judging size in these pics. How wide should the bead be from the top of the bead to the points of the pinked edge? Are your pinking shears the average ones, like the ones used for cloth sewing? I don't mean to put you "under the gun", but I've got you talking so I'm trying to make the most of it. Image

Steve
User avatar
jake
7
7
Posts: 544
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 1998 7:01 pm
Full Name: Jake
Location: Mountain View, Arkansas, USA

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#144 Post by jake »

That's alright Steve. I love talkin' boots!

I start with cutting my top bead 11/16" wide. Then I thin it down on the Fortuna. With the Fortuna, I try to thin one side down to almost nothing, but most of the time I end up touching it up. The other side will always need some skiving.

The size of the finished top bead should be about 5/16".

I believe my pinking shears are average. I can't remember where/when I ordered them. It's been some time ago. I like Weiss cuttery.

I'm not at the shop right now. I'll try to see if my shears have a model # on them. I would think any of the medium range ones would do. All your trying to do is negotiate the scallop (bending the top bead). The inside of the top bend needs to come closer together to "ease" the tension. Take care!
User avatar
dw
Seanchaidh
Posts: 5830
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 1997 10:00 am
Full Name: DWFII
Location: Redmond, OR
Has Liked: 204 times
Been Liked: 122 times
Contact:

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#145 Post by dw »

Jake,

I use a round point needle pretty often anymore. I don't like the way the stitches lay as well as I like the narrow reverse twist but the round point is far more available and it is all I use...by choice...when doing inlays. I guess the round point is almost "normal" these days.

For inlays I use a 10 or 12 needle and size 33 thread.

For ordinary stitch patterns and closing work I use a size 14 needle and size 46 thread.

I'm not worried...or interested, even...whether the stitches stand proud of the leather...maybe I should be. Image But I am interested in how close to the edge I can get, how close I can sew one line to the other, and whether the needle will cut or split a point on the tongue or on an inlay when I go to "jump over."

Having said all that I also think that with some leathers...drier leathers like Beaumont...a "bladed" needle will be more likely to "cut" the leather if the stitches are too close than a round point. Sometimes, depending on the demands of the work and the materials...a feller has to evolve whether he likes it or not! Image

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
paul
8
8
Posts: 1038
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2005 10:00 am
Full Name: Paul Krause
Location: Prescott, Arizona, USA
Been Liked: 14 times
Contact:

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#146 Post by paul »

Jake,

First off I want to express a belated Thank You for the tutorial on inlays, you and DW provided us with some months ago. There has been alot of water under the bridge since then, but now I'm ready to jump in and get wet.

This is my first attempt to do the inlay the way you guys teach. I used my 31-15. I didn't have safety glass, and I can tell now I will be getting a piece for skiving. My marble really was too much drag. My stitching needs to be a little more deliberate, but that's always a complaint of mine. Mostly, I'm pretty pleased, but I'd like a critique from anyone who'd like to jump in. I'd also like some comment about the design if someone sees something that could be improved. Thanks in advance.

PK

Here it is:
3482.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
dw
Seanchaidh
Posts: 5830
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 1997 10:00 am
Full Name: DWFII
Location: Redmond, OR
Has Liked: 204 times
Been Liked: 122 times
Contact:

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#147 Post by dw »

Paul,

That's good looking work, Paul. Nothing wrong with that.

If I was to make any sort of comment I'd simply say that, assuming you're using a round point needle and sufficently small, you might want to design your patterns so that where there is a point that you will later want to "jump over," it will not be so sharp that you have trouble with it splitting in the last stitch. Believe it or not, you can make that kind of design adjustment and it will never affect the grace of beauty of the inlay.

Good on ya, Paul!

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
paul
8
8
Posts: 1038
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2005 10:00 am
Full Name: Paul Krause
Location: Prescott, Arizona, USA
Been Liked: 14 times
Contact:

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#148 Post by paul »

DW,

Thank you. Yes, I cut the tip at the base of that leaf, huh? I'll be a little more careful there. I jumped the others and that worked ok.

One thing I did that doesn't show much I'd like comment on, is the petals of the daisy. I had stitched around the perimeter of the flower and then had to go back and stitch the lines that separated the petals. But I didn't want to go back over the same stitching, so starting close to the stem, I went from the outside up to the center, around the center for a distance then came down the petal to the outside. Then I went around the outside edge and back up the next petal to the center again, and proceeded alternatly moving around the flower. You can see the stitch just barely under the edge of the leather. What else could I have done here? I don't want alot of tie offs on the back.

PK
User avatar
dw
Seanchaidh
Posts: 5830
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 1997 10:00 am
Full Name: DWFII
Location: Redmond, OR
Has Liked: 204 times
Been Liked: 122 times
Contact:

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#149 Post by dw »

Paul,

I don't see a thing wrong with doing it that way...especially on top of the methods being used here--with the skived plugs and overlay.

Only thing I might have done different (just an idea and all a matter of taste) I might have skived a strip down each of the "petal lines" on the daisy plug. that way when you actually stitched the petal line it would have sunk in a bit and further "three-dimensionalized" each of the petals. Follow?

Just a thought...

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
User avatar
jake
7
7
Posts: 544
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 1998 7:01 pm
Full Name: Jake
Location: Mountain View, Arkansas, USA

Re: Top patterns/stitching

#150 Post by jake »

Hey Paul,

Great Job!! I mean it! I can't see a thing wrong with your effort Partner.

Yeah, go to a glass shop/company, and ask if they have any scraps. I betcha they'll have a piece someone did wrong. Usually they'll give it to ya. That's what happened with me.

Once again, nice work and Thanks for sharing it with us. Take care!
Post Reply