The Crispin Colloquy

It was easier to get an even color with the Eco-Flo because the water base does not evaporate fast. One fellow told me that the dyes are all the same, it's just different solvents between one brand and the next. Don't know how true this is but it sure is more plesant working with water based products.

The edges were done with and air-brush which is a very fast process. Coloring before assembly allows for sharp contrasting edges.

Rick, you've been pretty quiet lately so it's nice to get a peek at what you've been up to.

Cheers, -Nat

Francis, DW, et al,

I am going to move this (historical) part of the discussion to a more appropriate thread...it may take me a day or two. So anyone who wishes to continue, please post further comments in Boots and Shoes in History.

admin wrote:Francis, DW, et al,

I am going to move this (historical) part of the discussion to a more appropriate thread...it may take me a day or two. So anyone who wishes to continue, please post further comments in Boots and Shoes in History.

No problem, I was thinking the same thing! I'd suggest, though, also moving the post which discusses the sources for the mention of 16th C waxed leather (it's up a bit further).


Francis

Not my best effort although comfortable enough. I made these to have a pair of shoes to stumble around in the brush when fishing in the Deschutes Canyon or walking the dog. Made them mostly to see if I could.

Lots of errors in judgment however--the upper leather was some scrap/tailings I had laying around. It is about 8 ounce...too heavy. One of my big blind spots is occasionally thinking, even against my better judgement, that leather over 4 ounce is suitable for shoes (probably because I make work boots for guys who insist).

Next error--I put a crepe sole on these to give some uneven ground/rock cushioning. I thought 18 iron would be thin enough. It wasn't. Too heavy again esp. since it's not cloud crepe. To make matters worse I put a dense 6 iron Vibram rough-use sole over that...adding to the weight.

I also wanted to get some sense of how much extra room was needed inside the shoe to allow for a cushion insert. So I put a false insole next to the last and pulled it out when the shoes were done. That worked out OK.

And, my heel stiff was too wet and my paste too thin when I lasted so I got water stains in the lining.

Bleah!!

All that said, the shoes are pretty dern comfortable and I wear them a lot. I don't really mind the weight--my wading boots are heavier and wearing these shoes builds up my leg muscles. The weight is not really a problem during wear, however, it's more that they would be too heavy for most customers and too heavy to market...if I had any idea whatsoever of doing that. They are only too heavy in an aesthetic sense, in other words.

DW, It's good to hear that even veteran makers like you have a hard time occasionally. Makes me feel like I'm not the only one that does stuff I knew better than. Anyhoo, they are still darn handsome! I would run a fudge wheel along the top of that welt, if it were me.

romango wrote:DW, It's good to hear that even veteran makers like you have a hard time occasionally. Makes me feel like I'm not the only one that does stuff I knew better than. Anyhoo, they are still darn handsome! I would run a fudge wheel along the top of that welt, if it were me.

Rick,

Thanks...although when it comes to shoemaking I can't claim any veterancy. You are probably well ahead of me in experience and output, I'm sure. For shoes at least.

You know, I had intentions of fudging the storm bead but it escaped my mind when I was finishing them off. I tried...moderately successfully...to make my own, planning to trim it evenly and fudge it. But then, simply from time constraints, I decided to use what I had on hand (old stock).

I might add that although it doesn't show in the photos, I deliberately beveled the toe and the heel. This is perhaps a well known cran but I don't see it much anymore. It makes heel strike and push off smoother and more comfortable. Accentuates the "rocker action" of the outsole. We only ever did this on crepe.

Fair happy with these...lady's black Milano Adelaides with burg. 'roo bead. 1-1/4" heel, 8 iron outsole, welted and stitched at 11spi.

Beautiful DW,

I am not familiar enough with this pattern, but I am impressed by the lines and the way you've highlighted them with the red 'roo.

Just beautiful.

Paul

Thanks Paul. The style is known as an "Adelaide." I have another two pair coming up in the near future. Both mens shoes.

The burgundy bead could have been a little less "in your face" prominent, although it is not at all off-putting in person. On the other hand, it is an accent and these are lady's' shoes so it needed to be implemented as a design element, if you see what I mean.

It's a beautiful design. It seems to be a pattern very compatible with your lasts.

It might be the color on the computer, but it doesn't look at all like "in your face".
Is the bead a margin between the two components, or stitched to one and overlapping the other? I can't quite tell.

Paul

And BTW, the trees look to fit superbly. Did your alter a cedar pair or order special?

Paul,

Trees are old stock. Vintage. No one makes trees like they used to unless they are turning them like a last pretty much to the same specs as the last.

The bead is just like a bead on a boot it is at the edge of the quarters and while it overlaps the Adelaide shield it is sewn through both pieces.

On a classic English shoe the bead around the topline, for instance, would barely be visible. Very subtle. But again, on this shoe we needed to make it a little more prominent just to add that extra accent.

One other thing I'll add...if you get a nice piece of Milano--little or zero fat wrinkles--it makes a beautiful leather for dress shoes or boots. It can be a bear to skive but the grain surface is just gorgeous. I could put a spit shine on these shoes in about 15 minutes. Granted a little bit of residual buffalo texture will remain but in areas such as the toe and counter that all stretches out. I was pleased by the way these shoes turned out in that respect. Very dressy.

Now that's how Ladies shoes are supposed to look... Classic elegance. I bet the Lady receiving these shoes commands respect.

Well done, Sir. I'm inspired.

-Nat

DW,

Nice shoes! Where did you get the Milano leather?

Dw,
some nice shoes you made, welldone! 11 spi that's something I for one have a hard time with 10spi even though I use strong glases, I guess I'm getting old
Janne

Thanks to all of you!

Nat,

There are quite a few top end European shoemakers who make shoe for women that are really more refined versions of men's shoes than the powder-puff concoctions that we commonly think of when we think of womens shoes. Maybe it just takes a woman of a certain age or a certain level of practicality...or perhaps just a fixation on quality...but I get more than my share of orders for this kind of stuff even though I'm not all that interested in womens shoes as a general rule.

Rick,

Hardtke carries the Milano but it can be problematic. Some of it is very nice--clean, clear, skins. Some of it is heavily fat wrinkled...right down into the butt. They're small skins so if they are not clear, they're very hard to use.

Janne,

High praise indeed. Thanks again.

I have a tool that is set at 11spi. I can see it but sometimes it's hard to hit the mark 100% accurately especially in awkward places such as under the medial ball. I usually open the stitching up in the waist to about 5 spi and try to trim the welt back so that the welt and stitching are well under the upper leather. I'm dead slow, though. Takes me 3 hours...plus!...to stitch a shoe at 11 spi.

The worst problem is that both the stitch length tool and the awl leave marks on the side of the vamp. They can be very hard to remove or bone out. Covering the shoe with shrink wrap before welting and placing a couple of strips of masking tape on the upper, along the edge of the welt, can prevent that, however.

DW,

Yea, it is a risk that the fudge wheel or other tools leave marks on the upper. In the old time they did sew in cloth to protect the vamp. I guess that's better then masking tape or shrink wrap.

Janne

Janne Melkersson wrote:DW,

Yea, it is a risk that the fudge wheel or other tools leave marks on the upper. In the old time they did sew in cloth to protect the vamp. I guess that's better then masking tape or shrink wrap.

Janne

Maybe so...I don't have any experience using the cloth. But my immediate suspicion is that it would be much harder to keep a tight inseam and then cut away the cloth at the vamp line than the shrink wrap...which I do have experience with.

That said, shrink wrap is by no means a Traditional technique (and it's good to know those that are) despite being in wide-spread use in the factories of Northampton. I wouldn't want to do a suede shoe without it.

Continuing my current trend... the leather is hand colored English kip. Soles are hand-McKay stitched with a forefoot midsole.

a close up.

Rick,

It's an interesting technique you're playing with. the shoes above look pretty nice. I like the antiquing along the broguing. Did you do that with the air brush, as well?

Yes, I did use the airbrush on the edges and the toe, in addition to the hand dyeing.

Nice!
Where are you getting your kip?

Cody