Shoe machines

[das]

OK, went out and looked at mine, plus spare anvil assembly. There is no further mechanism than the central rod gliding to and fro (up/down) through the center of the thick sprung bushing on the bottom, caught in the teeth on the side by the ratchet lever. I was mistaken yesterday, mine has the side screw you were talking about (missing), which I assume is just a friction screw to add some drag to the central rod, slowing its decent under gravity.

So, lay it on the bench and try knocking (gently) the central rod "up" past the ratchet lever with a leather or wood mallet, or piece of 2x4. Whatever is binding it might become apparent once you move it all the way "up"/"down".

Bathe (soak) it in Kerosene overnight then, to dissolve and wash out any crud accumulated in the channel the central rod moves in, until it comes out clean and things move freely again. I recommend black automotive wheel bearing packing grease--the white lithium turns to stiff wax. For the rod you want to raise/lower under its own weight, stick to non-detergent motor oil, not grease, on that part.

[SharonKudrle]

Thank you SO much, I have only a few minutes today to access this computer so I will write more later. this helps, I've been reading up on rack and pawl but this is better

[SharonKudrle]

Due to snowstorm computer is in use again not by me and library opens at 1pm. Tried tapping with mallet to no avail, tried squeezing spring to get more opening only squeezed my hand. Will try cleaning more thoroughly and see if I can find someone strong to hold the thing while I tap it. Replaced old clinch nails with pegs in an old practice shoe this AM in an attempt to improve my mood.

Am able to write a quick status update: still not able to move the horn on the continental-8 though assembly has been inside & I've been trying for a day or so by myself. Tr
Comet as yet unused, yesterday tried to clean & oil it for use but one belt off out of four in the rear and sludge piled 1/2" (really true) inside the machine & lots outside. Looks like continental was used more than the comet. Neither demo'd before purchase. Will try to get all machines in working order and use them.

[das]

Use your mechanical "Spidey sense" to free-up that shaft. Something must be binding it. Rust? A wire nail from the machine fell down in the teeth/pawl? As far as I can tell on mine, it's just a shaft moving inside a bushing--no other mechanism. Did you peer in to see if your missing (friction?) screw might have broken-off in its threadway, maybe exerting to much friction? Or threadway is full of gunk?

[SharonKudrle]

Thank you Al, you are the best! You are right as always!

It was gunk and nothing else. I got help and we freed it up at 10pm last night, it took a lot of hammering and force to get it freed up.
The previous owner was faithful in oiling his machines and loved them, but he didn't have manuals and missed some critical spots. I've uploaded a photo of the freed part that I'll clean today with kerosene and very fine sandpaper if necessary. I'll add more photos to show how it was unstuck.



It's onward to the rest of the machines now.

I don't know if you have any quick guesses at what could be causing the timing to go out on my Singer post machine 51-57. I got it used and it wasn't stitching down. When I reset the timing underneath the machine it will stitch down for ~15 stitches and then go out again and won't stitch down. It would sure be nice to have a machine that can stitch heavier leather. I do have another 51-57 that is only good for parts.

The second question is about getting the Comet working. I suspect I should clean out the inside parts with something like kerosene and brake cleaner, maybe like you suggested with Geraldine's Singer 29-4? Those posts helped me a lot with my machines. I've added photos of the Comet to the Flickr photostream and they can also be found in the folder titled 'Comet'. I do have a manual for an Auto-Soler Nibbler that I would be happy to send or upload somewhere for the HCC.

Thank you again!

[das]

Congratulations! Glad you got it unstuck. I'm not familiar with a 51-57, but perhaps some other Forumites are? Diagnosing/coaching timing problems via email is daunting. Just adjust the timing so the shuttle hook's point is mid-way across the thickness of the needle when the needle's at it lowest position, and tweak back/forth from there. If the shuttle hook tip is worn, dull, broken, a new shuttle carrier/hook is the only solution.

[SharonKudrle]

Thank you again for your help and guidance! I would have broken it trying to fix it by myself.

Thank you for your advice on the 51, local sewing machine shops weren't able to fix old industrial machines, and there are fewer of them as they keep closing up. I will try one more repair shop if I can't fix it myself.

[dinerio]

I run a 51w57 post machine and it is a good machine. After you time your machine, check the gear underneath and make sure the set screw is tight. Also check the timing belt pulleys on the right hand side for slippage. If that doesn't help then you will have to check the gear and shuttle in the post. If your parts machine has a good post, try trading it and see what happens. There are four large screws underneath that holds it on. Can't think of anything else that would cause the it to lose timing so quick.
Good luck
Vincent

[SharonKudrle]

Thank you Vincent!
I'll look at your suggestions when I get the machine back from the repair shop so I'll have a better chance at fixing it myself next time. The gears and set screw underneath the bobbin tower were okay. I would set it and it would stitch down fine for ~8-15 stitches and then go out again though the set screw and gear were still fine.
I don't know about timing belt pulleys, I didn't see any but maybe I was looking in the wrong places. Wish I could just swap out the entire post but have no way of getting a replacement that I know of. Thank you again,
Sharon

[SharonKudrle]

Thank you Al!

Brake cleaner is what should you should use instead of the kerosene I used.
I used disposable plastic gloves rated for chemical use – not ordinary dishwashing gloves or the very thin plastic ones. Harbor Freight or your local hardware store have the right gloves, and they are inexpensive. Wash your hands after you dispose of the gloves.

Nailer – the horn was stuck, and it turned out to be packed gunk: oil and dirt. Took out two bolts, one each on the right and left side of the horn that connect the horn assembly to the top of the machine table using a ~15mm wrench.
Pulled the horn assembly up and out and pulled the cap off the top, then cleaned it outside in a driveway (or yard) and soaked it in kerosene (use brake cleaner) in a used plastic food container (or cheap tinfoil aluminum pan you can buy in the supermarket), scrubbed the horn assembly with an old toothbrush and dried it with an old rag and not a paper towel. I put the horn assembly on its side so the rod could move when hit on either the top or the bottom. It should emerge on the bottom of the large spring assembly or at the top. Clamped it/ held it down while we tapped the top (or bottom) of the rod gently with a board, a rubber/rawhide mallet, or we used a brass hammer which I do not recommend. When it moved, I cleaned the rest of the assembly and removed all dirt. When dry, I oiled it and replaced the assembly in the machine.

[das]

You were the one who mentioned wanting to use kerosene on this (I assumed because it's was what you had on hand)--I suggested brake cleaner (evaporates really fast) ;>)

If you want non-flammable, most shops I know use Sallari's machine-cleaner and wax thinner, which you'll need to clean the wax pots on your sole stitcher anyway.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-gal-SHOE-rep ... 2808349752

[SharonKudrle]

Thank you again, I spazzed out probably from reading too many antique manuals. I will use brake cleaner from now on.

I didn't know about Sellaris machine cleaner and wax thinner, I'll have to buy some. Should I continue to use wax in the Landis? I'm only using thread lube in the 77 and all the pro-con arguments are confusing me.

[das]

Try a quart of Sellari's and see if you like it. Thread lube (Sellari's) is OK in a MacKay, but for a curved needle you'll get better results from Sellari's liquid wax (tighter, harder stitches) especially if using linen thread but it's good on Dacron/poly too. Best results are from hot stitching wax, if your wax pot heater still works (long warm-up time until you can use it). If you only use it once in a while, for a pair or two, stick with the liquid wax and remove the remaining wax from the pot with a turkey baster (squirt back into the can) and clean with Sellari's cleaner/thinner between usings.

[mmiel]

Hello all,
I have a little pedersen/junker & ruh manual (lever operated) sole stitcher that I love, but there are a couple parts that I'd like to replace. At some point someone gave me the contact info for a gentleman in Canada who supposedly restores/sells parts for these machines, but like a fool I misplaced the number, and now can't seem to track it down. Anyone know who I'm talking about and have some contact info? Would very much appreciate any leads!
Maya

[bcFour]

hello -
I'm considering getting a bell skiving machine and looking for some input/advice/etc.
on the one hand the purist is saying to just keep getting better at hand skiving lap seams, toplines etc etc
on the other hand I feel like i'll get a better and more consistent product, reduced frustration and reduced waste (eventually) by getting a machine.

my main focus is men's leather shoes, working with the range from soft 2-3oz liners to 3-4oz calfskin uppers

will a bottom feed bell skiver (eg cobra np4 or the like) be what I'm looking for? Is top and bottom feed a 'requirement' or will simply the bottom feed handle all I need? I'm fine and comfortable hand skiving all my puffs and stiffeners.

I know how much my life changed when I did get the post bed machine...will it be the same step function with the bell skiver?

thanks for any/all advice!
Bob

[carsten]

Hi,
reducing waste and gaining more constancy certainly worked for me. I am no expert and tried different skiving methods. Tina knife, using a cutter and bent it somewhat on the surface and even got a hand tool that was supposed to be for just that purpose. I found that as long as the knife is not perfectly sharp and stays that way during the whole procedure, I did not get uniform results. So, I got myself a used bell skiving machine, which the previous owner was unhappy with. It turned out that all was working just, fine just he could not figure out how to sharpen the bell knife. Usually these machines are equipped with circular type sharpening stones. In my case, however they only sharpen the bell knife from the outside. Once I got myself a rod-shaped ceramic knife sharpener, that I press onto the inside edge of the running bell knife I found that this was the only thing missing to a sharp bell knife. Now also skiving long edges, e.g. for bags are not a problem anymore and are uniform throughout their whole length. When I was looking for a machine, I was looking for a used Fortuna machine and got the impression they are all more or less constructed the same way.
Hope that helps somewhat, Carsten

[dw]

@bcFour & @carsten
I have owned several bell skivers in my time--one a Fortuna and one a Pedersen. Both bottom feed only. I still own one of those--the Fortuna.

A bell skiver, when it is scary sharp and adjusted correctly is a wonder...and all too easy to get dependent upon. And it can do a lot of different things, such as splitting and skiving of various shapes and configurations, that a hand knife cannot do, esp. with any consistency.

But that said, it is not the be-all and end all. For instance, it cannot do a 'skant' skive very well; it cannot skive 2 ounce kangaroo very well (at least mine can't); and bottom feed skivers are not well suited to skive insole or outsole or rubber.

And it always needs attention--each piece of leather will necessitate an adjustment. And if the leather has a soft spot, the skiver will often cut through to the grain side--once it gets close to breaking through it will get stuck chewing up the grain. I've hit soft spots on strips of good calf and ripped the leather up all the way to the end. .

And there will always be times and leathers that you will want to skive by hand, should skive by hand, need to skive by hand, such as kangaroo, or ostrich or gator or even some calfskins. Bottom line is that if you cannot sharpen a Tina well enough to skive a whole shoe...every component...evenly and cleanly, by hand, the machine will not solve your problems. In fact, I tell my students that if they cannot sharpen a knife really really well, and cannot skive consistently... by hand...they're not ready for the machine.

In the same way that using an Exacto knife will keep you from ever learning to sharpen a knife correctly, using a bell skiver will stifle your growth and prevent you from ever becoming a compleat shoemaker.

IMO.

[bcFour]

thanks to you both for your replies.

i have not and never will consider myself a complete or expert shoemaker. Nor will I be putting my knives on ebay if I get the skiver. I think you did answer my question(s) tho in that a bottom feed machine will suffice and it can become a great compliment/addition to a simple shop. I understand there will be great diligence and tuning needed to get the most out of the machine - maybe even sharing those growing pains right here on the HCC!

thanks again @dw and @carsten

[dw]

One thought just to clarify what I was getting at: IMO (and perhaps there will be others who disagree), if making shoes is not seen as a journey towards mastery, (of self, of materials, of technique), towards a level of competence and accomplishment that goes beyond the ordinary, then, ultimately, it is cheaper and less stressful just to buy factory made shoes.

FWIW and IMO....

[bcFour]

maybe my point was all too subtle - when i say i'll never call myself a expert, I was indicating that it is always a work TOWARDS being an expert. ...never settle for being good enough at something... even if you are.