Fitting the Foot

[elfn]

And just so you have another chance to chuckle, here's the pair of *boots* I wore until I wore holes in the soles. I really should resole them as they are awesomely comfortable and WARM.

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They originally were boiled wool house slippers made just for me by a friend. I wore them so much I literally wore through the bottoms. That's when I cut the bottom away, serged the edge and added a leather insole and a not very substantial slipper sole from another pair of slippers.

I can't run in these either. They have zero lateral support. When I resole them, I'll use the same Vibram sole I used on the remade clog tops I wear as slip-ons now.

Nori

[dearbone]

I think you can benefit greatly watching a shoe maker last a pair of shoes in front of you and teach you some basic pattern making,After all shoemaking is an oral tradition and is passed on from one shoemaker to another,It is called the gentle craft for a reason,so many tricks had to be mastered first before one can produce well fitted shoe, the shoe one can run with and stays like a second skin on foot, I am also not sure your last is correct and if the last is not correct the shoes it produces are not going to be correct (wouldn't fit).

Nasser

[elfn]

Because I'm making heelless shoes/boots, I've got a flat/sandal last that's 1/2" longer than my feet built from a mold of my feet. The area where I think I'm going to have fit issues is around the collar. The way the last is now, I'm pretty sure that's my problem area. The fitter pair I'm making should tell me a lot.

I concur with watching someone last a pair of shoes. I'm hoping I've found someone fairly local to me who will be able to do that. I'm waiting to hear back.

N

[dearbone]

The good last makers are a bunch of experienced craftsmen,Friends of the shoe/boot makers, my hat off to them,they will correct the collar area for you too and much more if you can reach/find one of them,Good luck.

Nasser

[dearbone]

And here is my old saying,still stands correct,"Not every one with leather and thread can make shoes".

Nasser

[elfn]

I see the same thing with horse shoers. When you find one that can balance the foot front to back while matching the shoulder angle and can level the foot side to side without stressing the leg, who can get the breakover right for a rockered toe, can pull clips AND apply borium, treat him great because that's just all the obvious stuff. It's the quiet little details that make the work a success. Pretty doesn't get it. Shoes still on and the horse still sound after five weeks of hard use is the measure.

My goal isn't to make a name as a shoe maker. I just want comfortable feet so I can be active again. I've got enough skill sets in me to think I can achieve that goal . . . with a little help.

Can someone talk me through glued together construction? I've seen a lot of stitch-down construction but nothing on glue-down.

Thanks.

Nori

[dearbone]

OK,First things first,The last has different features than the mold of the foot and yes your mold need some work around the heel and back area,but honestly this is the last maker domain and i don't know enough about it,most of us here make shoes/boots on lasts.

Here is the process of cement/glue shoe, You need an upper with lining sewn to it in a way that will allow the placement of toe cap and heel stiffener,lets go without side lining this time,so basically two layers sewn at the top and middle which allows you to put in the middle the pieces mentioned, start by putting the heel stiffener and last the shoe like in the picture,imagine an insole on the last,secure the heel seat by tacking it down on the insole,after that is done move to the front and remove the top layer and last the lining by itself and remove the wrinkles for smooth gluing surface,now you can put/glue your toe cap to the lasted lining and when this is done last the top over it.

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[fred_coencped]

Nori,Nasser made it clear and simple for you, regarding glued constuction. Assuming you have a good cast of your foot,with intended heel pitch and forefoot extension, your[removable] orthotic insole or "innersole", now should and will be the same as any standard last bottom.
Maybe you could provide photos of last views and how were you cast?Nasser is right on for the last is everything.
Fred Coen

[elfn]

I am *very* aware the ankle and heel need attention and I appreciate the reiteration of this fact.

I cast my foot in alginate (my dentist is a sweetheart). Then I made a plaster positive using that mold. When the plaster of Paris dried enough to handle I added more plaster to the toe area (not nearly enough) and after it was much drier I laid on coats of bondo, smoothing it with sandpaper between coats. I sent it off to my son who used that form to make a mold out of off-the-shelf latex rubber.

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The last itself is of a 2 part resin he uses for making equipment handles and the like. It takes nails really well and I can pound on it with impunity.

To check the sizing on the lasts I molded some light sole leather to the bottom and and inch up the sides, toe and heel. Once it had dried I stood inside the leather form I'd made and I could see the lasts were going to be too short. I sawed off the toes and inserted a 1/2" slice of bunker cushion (also accepts nails well). Lorr (son) had cut the lasts so I would have no problem removing them from my shoes so I didn't feel too bad about whacking them apart again.

They look funky but, after I figure out how much to shape the ankle and heel (AFTER the fitter's done), I think I'll be in pretty good shape for getting some footwear that will work for my needs.

Comments, please. I wouldn't be here if I didn't want to hear your opinion.

Nori

[elfn]

I think I have a better picture. Also, this post has the picture of the formed leather I stood in for testing the sizing.

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Nori

[fred_coencped]

Nori,In the area of the cone or top of your cast, narrow the cone and elongate instep area. This vary`s from a low quarter to a high top. Study the factory last areas around the cuboid area,cone and heel seat and remember we are fitting the bones of the feet.

Consider working in plaster it is cheaper,faster and easier. You can always clone your plaster last in any materials later.

I understand your desire for Zero heel pitch but you should still have toe spring in your last design.

Since you are developing an orthopedic last from a mold of your foot the finished footwear can either have a removable insole or not. It is up to you the Maker.What I referred to is designing your footbed from an ergonomic foot form that transfers to the final outsoling in some way.

I think we all recognize that our footwear form follows how our foot functions, Style is a worthy goal while the footwear is not looking like a foot.

Anyway WOW you are Crafty, good luck,
Fred

[elfn]

I still don't know all the terms so it will take me a bit to absorb the full import of your post.

From experience I think toe spring will not benefit me. You have to understand how short my foot really is. It's barely over 8" long and there is very little foot in front of the ball of my foot. If I were doing long pointy toes, as is the fashion, I could see adding toe spring. With all that said, I promise to take the toe spring concept to heart and, after I've made my fitters and worn them for a bit, if I feel something's not right at the front, I'll add toe spring. Deal?

Zero heel pitch = no heel. In this case, I believe it's a support issue. The area where I must have support is right in front of the heel against the outside of the foot. It's not down the center of the foot where a stiffener would normally be placed. At this point, the simple answer for me is to stick with a no heel shoe. As I build and wear, I think just about everything is subject to change based on performance. I don't know how else to do things. I have to take what I believe to be correct based on what I've figured out in the past and start from there. With that said, please know I am listening carefully and not dismissing out of hand what you are saying.

Figuring out how to keep my knees and hips from aching was a trick. I tried all sorts of things before settling on a simple vaguely triangular cork wedge placed in front of my heel on the outside of the foot. The slip-ons I wear kicking around the house have it built into the sole. Any ready-made shoe I buy gets a set taped (3-M double sided stuff) down to the bottom of the shoe. I'm hoping as I get to where I know what I'm doing making shoes I can do as I did with the slip-ons and incorporate the wedge into the sole. That, too, is probably going to require alterations to the last.

I had someone say something about a book of patterns yesterday. Patterns? I should worry about patterns? <shakes-head> Patterns are a future concept for when I have a set of lasts on which I can build something that's going to allow me to get out and do. At this point I am seeking comfort and support. Patterns can come later if I suddenly get hit with a drive to have more decorative boxes with laces. For now I just need form and function.

I went to visit my favorite shoe repair guy yesterday. He has made shoes in the past though he no longer has all the equipment. I get my cork and soles from him. He will stitch down the soles and insert grommets for me. I don't have a machine for stitching down and I don't want to do it by hand.

I sincerely appreciate the feedback I'm getting here. I can feel my thinking expand and adjust. This is a good thing! <grin>

Nori

[dearbone]

Hello Fred,

I am glad you joined this converstion my friend,i like your statement, "We are fitting the bones of the feet",I think your expertise is more needed here than mine since we are dealing with feet that need corrective last/mold which as you know is the foundation for making well fitted shoe/boot.

Nori,
About the "Terms" Fred uses in his articles,here is what i do when i am about to read his articles,I grab my Anatomy & physiology book and follow him from there. Good luck on your search.

Nasser

[elfn]

<lol> Where I can't winnow the meaning from the usage, I do a quick Google. If I get truly stuck, I promise I'll yell for a definition.

Nori

[fred_coencped]

Nori,The triangular support sounds like you are having difficulty with your lateral arch. In my view is as important and even supports the medial arch.It is possible your calcaneo-cuboid joint is getting relief from your wedge. That lateral arch extends distally to the the base of the little toe.Your support could go further forward supporting your lateral arch passed the base of the 5th metatarsal. The proximal head of the 5th metatarsal is the bump about the middle lateral edge of the foot. It is called the Styloid process.

Look at a Birkenstock sandal and note the calcaneal shelf or support where your describing need of support and relief.Consider extension of your lateral arch support. It will support the lateral ankle ,knee and hip.

My concern for you is your cast/last and that is your most important task that requires experience,skill and excellent knowledge of biomechanics. The model of the foot is basis for the orthopedic last. The relationship of forefoot to rearfoot anatomical articulations and bio mechanics is important to capture and then convert the foot mold to the last. The insole is the next key for successful fit,comfort and function.

Hi Nasser, good advice for Nori

Peace,Fred

[elfn]

If I could run around barefoot with just the lateral arch support, I'd be a really happy woman. That's when my feet are most comfortable. They are least comfortable when I wear anything that jacks my foot up at the heel or laterally restricts the outside of my foot where it meets the ground or causes my toes to be cramped in any way.

This is probably sheer blasphemy on this list, but I wish I could get a pair of Vibram Five Fingers to fit me. It's an impossibility, but I think that's when I am at my most comfortable . . . barefoot or nearly so. That is what I'm trying to replicate in a shoe or sandal.

Does that make sense?

Nori

[fred_coencped]

Yes Nori your wishes make perfect sense.It is too bad the 5 finger shoes are rubber and not able to allow the foot to breathe, a major shortcoming.
I believe you are referring to right foot lateral arch support.

Try this, stand on your left leg, bend the left knee and sit back on your left hip pulling the tail bone straight down. Your back is vertical, pick up your right leg and place your right foot in front of you devoid or absent your body weight. With your right foot grab the ground with your toes and note your heel bone is digging into the ground, the earth, a sandy beach, a wood or tile floor, etc.,it doesn`t matter this is what our toes do on one singular sagital plane of function. NOTE what happens to all of the arches of your feet, especially notice the rise of your lateral arch, that is where you wan`t to support and not at all under the lateral heel ,that would be a big mistake.
Now that you`ve noted that, initiate shifting your weight forward on to your right leg without rising your Sacrum, standing with your eyes level, parallel to the ground. As you are grabbing the ground with your toes initiating walking, drive your Ileum forward from the iliac crest, that is your pelvis shifting your body weight to your right leg, meantime you are pushing from the ground with your left leg and foot, but ignore that initially till later. Repeat and practice in your barefeet. This will stengthen your foot flexors and raise your arches.

I am pretty sure you have other biomechanical issues, we all do. My guess is your 5th metatarsal is plantarflexed and your "lateral leaf spring" has done sprung.

I describe this as we have choices and self responsibilities in how we move forward through life. "Falling forward or Stepping Forward with our Natural Intelligence".

While foot orthotics help people they are a crutch. Our nature is barefoot..........

Yes barefoot is our birth right and shoes are a long story for us Humans. You can guess what I think about Heels!

Cheers,Fred

[elfn]

Honey, I SO don't need my arches raised. If they raise any further I would leave forefoot and heel marks only. As it is, when I walk barefoot I barely have a trace of any mark along the outside of my foot.

I know I have skeletal issues. The tale goes like this. If a child is born of an undiagnosed active celiac (my mother), that child will have deformities caused by malnutrition. Each subsequent child (I'm third in line, by the way) will have greater issues than the child before. When that child becomes an active celiac none of the physical issues get addressed until the celiac's is diagnosed and properly treated.

My mother was dead at my age. While that totally sucks, I now know why she died and I know I have celiac's. I don't need sympathy or consideration. I haven't got time for that stuff. I'm handling the changes the diagnosis entails and I'm getting healthier. Now that I can, I need to get out and GO. To do that I need shoes that fit and don't screw with what I've fixed/figured out.

With all that said, I will thank you sincerely and I will carefully study what you've told me to see if I can figure out what it all means for me.

Oh, and you're asking a 55 year old fat woman to do WHAT?! Are you serious? <rofl>

Nori

[elizavt]

Hi there,

I hope I'm asking this question in the right place. It is about both fitting the foot and the making of a last, so I was a little unsure.

I am working on my second pair of historical straight lasted shoes (that's my second pair of any type of shoes, actually). They are based on a pair from the turn of the 19th C. in the Met's collection (though I am basing the heels off a separate pair):[url=the%20original%20pair]http://www.metmuseum.org/works_of_art/collection_database/the_costume_institute/shoes/objectview.aspx?page=900&sort=0&sortdir=asc&keyword=&fp=1&dd1=8&dd2=0&vw=1&collID=8&OID=80094042&vT=1&hi=0&ov=0[/url]

I have carved the last, and to see if I've got the shape right, I made a mock-up by covering the shoe in masking tape and then cutting that off and trying it on. For the most part, it looks the way I want it to, but the mock up is gapping and pulling on the outside of the foot. Part of me says, 'of course it won't fit perfectly, you're trying to make a symmetrically lasted shoe fit an actual foot,' but I am still wondering if there is a way to get rid of this gap. This is the same problem I had on my previous pair of shoes, so I am extra interested in correcting it this time around.

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I am wondering if there is a correction I can make on the last that will fix this problem.

Thank you, Eliza

(Message edited by ElizaVT on May 22, 2011)

[amuckart]

Eliza,

Nice to see someone else trying to get their head around straight lasts. I'm not sure if my experiments are any use since I'm working on early modern ones that still have the very narrow waist of medieval lasts. If you don't have it already, I highly recommend getting a copy of Al's book The Art of The Shoemaker.

Al is really the man for these, I'm still muddling along learning by experimentation but to me it looks like the back part of the last is just plain too big. If I had that problem I'd whack a bunch more off the sides of the cone almost around to the front so it becomes narrower at the top but not shorter. In fairness I should also point out that I've yet to make a last that actually works properly

[danfreeman]

Eliza,
Your last looks good, but if you want your shoes to look as well while on your feet, you must compromise the total symmetry. I suggest minimal lateral and a medial "runners," which can be reversed to make the other shoe--at a certain point, the shoes will be straight enough to look good, but right-and-left enough to fit each foot. Gaping, gapping shoes are historically accurate.

[das]

Eliza,

You got pretty close on the first try, but here are a few tips to get a better fit on 17th-19thc "straight" lasts"

1) Be sure the joint-line or ball (widest part of the last), both sides, is moved back far enough to line up with the lateral (outside) joint. Because they are symmetrical, "straights" will always be "too short" heel-to-ball on the medial (inside). Good start is to find a left & right "crooked" last that fits you well at the outside joint, make a bottom-paper off of it, trace and flip to recreate the "straight" last bottom profile, based on the lateral joint/ball, ignore the medial heel-to-ball. You cannot accommodate the asymmetry of the feet in a "straight", and you must always be guided by the shorter, lateral, heel-to-ball measure

2) Gapping quarter top-lines is epidemic in most repro "straights" shoes because most no longer understand how they worked in the day. After you get the joints/ball positioned correctly (as above), next look to the heel-curve up the back of the last. The best fitting 17th-19thc "straights" have minimal curvature up the back--many are ramrod straight up, no curve at all. Top-line tension in the uppers was controlled by clipping the last thinner (and thinner) in the rear half

3) To introduce top-line tension for a close fitting top-line that won't gap in a low-quartered shoe, our forebears thinned the upper 2/3rds of the last's "cuboid" (the sides of the heel-end) until the "island", or flat bit on top of the last was barely 1/2" to 3/4" wide. So, if you viewed the last from the back, the sides were flat something like this: /_\
or a concave hollow curve like this:: )_(., as opposed to what we're used to seeing in lasts today: (_)

4) Not sure how your upper pattern is at the side-seams, but cutting a little draft reduction there, also might tighten your top-line


Your last looks good, but it's too long heel-to-ball, and still far too thick in the cuboid area. Do not be afraid to thin, hollow, or "clean out" the cuboid, the shoe quarters will always open up when you put your foot in no matter how tight you "clip" them via the last.

I agree with Dan that adding runners can solve this, but they will spoil the symmetry of your "straight" last/shoes, they will no longer be "straights" IOW. Try to get the last/shoe to fit properly, first, as a "straight". If gapping persists, then make symmetrical runners to fill up the hollow if the waist a little, and widen the last on both sides. Loose top-lines, gapping/gaping quarters were NOT period-correct, except in ill-fitting shoes

[amuckart]

Al,

Thank you for explaining what I could see in my head but couldn't put into words. I'm getting somewhere though, because I could see it in my head

[das]

Alasdair,

Glad my word-pictures worked.

[janne_melkersson]

Here's a swedish straight last used up north used by farmers and the lappish people. The footwear is called kängsko and the front (or the apron/lake) is made raised so a strap of leather will make it possible to go on skiis during winter.

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This photo is from 1930's and shows the production of a shoe shop up north in Sweden where they still made straight kängskor. I think they started to make left and rights in the 50-60's.

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