sewing machines

[das]

This outfit seems to have one for sale: https://collect-sell.com/product/4-inst ... 4-212g140/

[dw]

I don't mean to second-guess you or throw a wet blanket on your vision, but double needle machines are kind of specialized and can't really be used where you'd think a double needle machine would come in handy. For instance, they can't make sharp curves or corners without spacing problems...even cross-overs.

And they end up just taking up space and being a cash sink, IMO.

Better to learn to sew multiple rows closely and evenly with a single needle machine.

IMO...YMMV

[das]

Having "liked" DW's comment above, I will add that he's absolutely correct. Double-needle machines are great only for straight lines of stitching, just not curved ones. That said, it's an easy matter to just pull out the right-hand needle and bobbin, thread only the left one, and use it as a single-needle post bed machine. Did that myself for years, took curves just fine as a single-needle.

[Amasiah]

ok thank you that helps

[SharonKudrle]

I have a new-to-me ancient Frobana (aka Gritzner) that isn't quite operational. I can't figure out how to get tension on the bobbin thread. The cases seem to differ from model to model. Are there any work arounds that you know of? Needles are another problem, of course. The needle I have was toast, but I sharpened it and the machine stitched down once even without tension, so I am optimistic. I don't know how the needle got broken off, don't know whose hide they tried to sew through.... Anyhow, its the bobbin now... I'll get a photo up as soon as I can.

[das]

The bobbin tension is controlled by a sprung steel plate (B) that hooks at one end into the shuttle case, and is tightened via a screw at the opposite end to pinch the thread between this plate and shuttle case. If your plate has no thread-groove worn in the back, you might be OK. If the adjusting screw is "wrong" or stripped, or won't tighten things, time for a new screw. Check on eBay for Frobana needles, and save your farthings! They're out of production, so prices are nuts. Seems Lisa Sorrell has the manual: https://sorrellnotionsandfindings.com/p ... er-manual/

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[SharonKudrle]

Thank you very much!
I know Lisa Sorrell has the manual, but I found the manual elsewhere already.
The screw will tighten down so the plate is flush, and will close the gap somewhat and slide forward and back to some degree, but not enough to clamp or tension the thread that came with the machine.
I guess the next step is to try different thread. Can you tell me what kind of thread you recommend? Meanwhile, I'll double check the size of the needle that came with the machine.

[carsten]

For needles maybe you could also try to contact: https://www.groz-beckert.com/en/

[das]

@SharonKudrle I only ever used the Junker & Ruh linen thread, 6 and 7 cord, because the spools fit the Frobana thread holder. I used to buy it from Goetz out of Germany. If that's dried-up, you could spool some Barbour's 6/7 (whichever fits your needle's eye onto the old spool I hope came with yours. The spring tensioner that holds the spool at the back is part of the upper thread tension system and cannot be easily by-passed/deleted I learned.

[SharonKudrle]

Thank you both, I'll check back here when I get the right thread on the machine. The old sharpened needle seemed to work at least a little, though a new one would be nice. Thank you for the advice about the spring tensioner on the spool holder, I found that out already the hard way when I was trying to thread it correctly after I missed the oil pot the first time and was mystified and seeking a 'set' for the upper tension. Hmph. All the way back there.... When I get the thread situation straightened out I'll see what happens with the bobbin case. Now it has some braided nylon/poly cord on there that is thicker than what I have in the Landis. Thank you for confirming my suspicions about the tension set-up on the bobbin case. I bought it at an auction of the machines of a sewing machine restorer and collector. They were mostly domestics, and it looks like he didn't get around to this machine. Overall, it doesn't look abused, but maybe at one point it fell into the hands of someone who didn't have a manual or anywhere to get help to learn to set it up or to use it. I hope this is worth the trouble. Its going slowly, but coming along.

[das]

Properly threaded, set-up, and with all good condition parts, new needle, etc., the Frobana is a fine piece of engineering, like a German clock. The unavailability of parts and needles, or at reasonable prices, is the only thing that renders them "obsolete" for a go-to "off grid" (non-motorized) sole stitcher. The thing I liked about mine, you could stitch soles with the welt up, not sole up like a Landis. The presser "nose/beak" piece on the needle cowl also did a nice job on stitch down construction, pressing the fold in the outflanged upper up tight to the last as you stitched. One part that's critical to have a complete selection of is the feed dog: 1) channel-cutting one, 2) non-channel-cutting one, and 3) the double-toothed one for crepe rubber. Enjoy your Frobi!

[carsten]

To be more exact about the needles: have a look at https://www.groz-beckert.com/en/product ... rstellung/
Maybe you will find your needle at :https://www.groz-beckert.com/mm/media/e ... making.pdf

The only problem I see with the Frobana is that you don't see where the needle is actually stitching. If you ever come across a Rafflenbeul MS 200 or MS 55 it might be worth considering. That one uses an awl to punch the hole and pulls the thread through the sole with an extra needle - also holding the shoe upwards.

[SharonKudrle]

Thank you, feed dog is feeding okay. I channel myself with a Tandy v-groove cutter so far for trials. I decided some time ago that stitch down construction is better for those with fashionably slim feet. Dug up some old Bulldog 7 cord I've been hording, no word on whether Frobi prefers left or right twist. Will remove spool today if I have time and wind it on with a pirn winder I have thats been collecting dust. I just knew it would be useful someday. Yes, sole down is preferable to 'the art and the mystery' of feeding a Landis. There is at least one video of a motorized Frobana, with all that power on a small machine its a wonder it doesn't fall apart!

[das]

So, do you know if your feed dog is a channel-cutter? (Sharp blade edge w/ one tall tooth sticking up) Non-channel-cutter? (Blunt edge w/ one lower tooth) Crepe one? (Two teeth that look almost like a coarse saw) It may obviate the need for you to use the groover if so. My Frobi manual went out the door with my machine, so sadly I can't look that up for you. If I recall correctly, the needle and the bobbin thread were the same twist, not different. Coming from hand-sewn land, the Landis sole-up feed always bugged me. Have seen the videos of a motorized Frobana. Good grief, all the little screws in my needle cowl/cover and presser "nose"/"beak" used to come lose just hand cranking it, I'd think a motorized one would get rattled lose in no time, LOL. There's always Locktite I guess.

[SharonKudrle]

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The thread is getting caught and not casting off. Do you have any suggestions to solve this problem?
This thread and neatsfoot oil in the reservoir seems to feed better than the stiff, wiry braided plastic thread that was in the Frobana.

[das]

Can't tell from photo. Does it feed freely through the needle's eye?

[SharonKudrle]

Here is Frobi's mystery attachment with the serrated roller. Can you tell us what it is?
I guess the upper thread has two tensioners after all. the one on the spool and the one on the wrap around disc with the compressioning spring thats visible above the mystery wheel.

[SharonKudrle]

yes, it doesn't seem to hang up and I can pull it easily. I'll double check it and get more close-up photos. Anyways, the new thread is staying in the bobbin case hole though I don't see tension on it. I don't know if someone bent the case cover at some point or put on a different one.

[das]

Not the faintest what that knurled wheel thingie is, sorry. E-diagnosis/trouble-shooting is pretty impossible from this distance, just get a manual as soon as poss., and be sure everything is threaded just right. Check needle eye for and burrs or rough spots. Run it slowly at watch the thread move through the entire thread-path from spool to needle and be sure it's not scraping anywhere. Mine occasionally shredded the needle thread where it passes down through the long slot in the cowl/cover plate.

[SharonKudrle]

Thank you very much for your kind help! I'll keep working on it and will post when/if I get it working again. With your help I've made progress and am more hopeful about getting it to work again. My guess this morning for the gnurled wheel is to mark welt strips before they're sewn on?

[das]

From your photos, your Frobi looks like it's in great condition, so hopefully it'll be up and running in no time. No idea what the knurled knob does. Does it rotate when the machine is cycled? Does it press down under spring tension on the flat steel plate below it? Not sure Id want to imprint my welts with that knurled pattern. By the time the shoe is brought to this machine to stitch the outer sole on, the welt is already sewed to the shoe.

[SharonKudrle]

Will post better photos later. It has a knife that cuts a channel. There is a lever that likely unlatches it so it rotates with the machine. The lever isn't responding to moderate pressure either down, in, or out as yet and I don't want to force it until I have a better idea of which direction I need to push it. Some commercial welt I have is channeled and also scored but not all the way though, so the leather flexes and is easier to put on around curves. This could make 3 different welt sizes, and the blade is removable by a knurled knob underneath the plate.
The Gritzner manual says 3,4,5 thread according to needle size for light, med, heavy shoes. 7 cord is too big then unless the 3,4,5 is some obsolete numbering system for thread type. The Gritzner manual also says thread is pitched (waxed), but this machine has an oil reservoir. The thread is stranding on the hook, but it did pick up the bobbin thread at least once. I need to get the Frobana manual to see if it is different. Thank you Al.

[das]

Definitely get a manual that describes what your knurled thing with a blade does first. If the blade cuts a channel it might be for outer soles rather than welt prep IMO. The feed dog with integral channel cutting blade worked really well, so no idea why you'd need a secondary channel cutter. I bet 3,4,5, is the cord #, but I think I ran 6 in mine OK. Yes, the pre-spooled thread was waxed with pitch-wax (pre-WWII), hence the gas jet under the shuttle on mine. I used unwaxed thread and put Solari's liquid wax (stuff that drys hard) in the wax pot.

[SharonKudrle]

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[SharonKudrle]

the unsatisfyingly large gap. I forgot the needle size so I'll have to take it out again and get the number.