The Crispin Colloquy

DW,

I for one am learning so much here I never thought of. 150 years ago was a whole different animal. I would love to see the wire method.

Cheers,

Jesselee

Jesse,

Koleff's video demonstrates the wire method...it's toward the end and he uses fuse wire rather than guitar string but it's the same process.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

DW,
Thanks, I'll take a look at it. Got to try it out.

Cheers,

Jesselee

DW,

Koleff never ceases to amaze me. I was however talking about duplicating a Blake/McKay stitch on the soles. I use it on my CW uppers and side seams all the time.

Cheers,

JesseLee

DW et al

the glass we used was 2mm window glass as it's easy to break. When you get used to it you can go to 3mm glass as the edge lasts longer.

Fuse wire was (and in old houses probably still is) used in the fuse box where the power comes into a house. Like car fuses it was designed to burn out at a prescribed temperature and thus cut the circuit.

I am glad you guys are enjoying the videos.

Tim

BTW, re this "pump-stitch"--it does not imitate a MacKay stitch by-hand really. The MacKay stitching imitates the old by-hand "channel stitching" used mostly in the 1700s for fast, light-looking, work. See 'Art of the Shoemaker' pp. 76-77, and also Hasluck, 'Boot Making & Mending' on "stitch-drawing", AKA "leading the blind". In these cases a 3rd thread is used to fetch the inside thread down and out of the hole where your hand can't reach and you can't see. Rees says this construction was loosing popularity by 1813, becaue it resulted in a stiffer sole (than welted or turnshoe), but the MacKay stitcher fixed all that with it's looser chain-stitch.

Al,

Is the terminology..."pump stitch"...at all correct? I thought I saw "channel stitching" referred to as a "pump stitch" in Garsault.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

Al:

When I was in London last spring, I had the opportunity to drop by Lobbs. I was fortunate to meet an apprentice who showed me around the premises, including the downstairs work room. Among his lessons, he was practicing what I thought he called a pump stitch, used in making mens dress pumps (i.e. tuxedo shoes, house slippers, etc?) In my limited understanding of what he told me, the outsole was stitched to the insole, with the stitch running parallel to the sole and going through awl holes penetrating half the sole's thickness, such that no stitching is visible on the outside of the sole. The stitching is done nearly blind, and the holes in the sole must be made before the sole is sewn on, so a chalkmark is made from the insole feather/stitch line onto the flesh side of the sole to indicate where holes should be made. My impression is that the stitch only goes through the holdfast or some similar part of the insole and therefore does not penetrate into the inside of the shoe. Are you familiar with this stitch, and, if so, do you know what it would be called in the literature?

Thanks,
Lance

lance,

would it be possible to give us an illustration or a hand drawing of the process you described above? Thanks.

Nasser

Just now got a chance to watch these videos. Wow!
Very nice to watch Mr. Koleff at work.

Thank you for sharing.

-Nat

Lance,

I looked at Garsault this morning and although I didn't find anything that seemed exactly like what I was imagining, Garsault talks about stitching "Channel Pumps" with a stitch very similar to what Koleff is demonstrating. The caveat is that either there was two lines of stitching rather than one or I missed something.

I cannot "image" how such a stitch as you described would be done, although it is hard to fathom how "64 to the inch" could be done as well...or the beautiful stitching done to both cover and hold on the heel on ladies pumps. So the fact, that, like Nasser, I too need a diagram or more detail shouldn't come as a surprise.

Parenthetically, BS from SF wrote on Marcel's blog that what Marcel was calling "German Welting" was, in English shoemaking circles, known as "pump stitching." ??!!

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

Nasser and DW:

I am not at all sure how the stitch works; that is why I asked Al about it. My impression is that this technique is not necessarily an extremely old one; it is still used today, but I believe that bespoke slippers with this stitch are a pretty low volume item, so the stitch isn't used very often. If you were to go back say 50 or 75 years, the typical bespoke client probably wore a tuxedo and/or 'tails' often (perhaps even 'dressed for dinner') and may have worn embroidered house slippers around the home, perhaps with a smoking jacket. Thus, this stitch was much more common at that time. It is used for lightweight, thin soled slip-ons. I commented on the stitch to Mack, and he said that on his next trip into Lobbs he would show the apprentice some things to make it easier, so obviously he is familiar with it. Having been trained by Lobbs (at least in part), that makes sense. If he is reading this, perhaps he will write a quick description.

Here is my impression/recollection -- note that I could be completely off base, and the stitching could conceivably go through the insole, though that was not my understanding. I think the stitch may be sort of a running stitch around the perimeter of the outsole, on the flesh side. Thus, the awl holes would run parallel to the edge of the sole, and would be a tunnel stitch in that the awl hole enters and exits the same side of the outsole. One question is what these stitches 'catch' to adhere the outsole to the insole. I don't see how they would catch the insole itself. I am guessing that perhaps the insole and upper are sewn with some sort of a whip-stitch, so that the outsole stitch can catch this whip stitch (sort of like the historical 'sewn' heel/rand catches the stitches of the upper and the insole). As I noted earlier, the insole is 'chalked' where the outsole stitches should lie, so that the outsole can be pressed against the insole and the appropriate location of the stitches transferred to the outsole.

So, what would be done would be to mark flesh side of the outsole and pre-hole it with the tunnel stitches. Then the outsole would be applied to the insole/upper, and the running stitch made all around the periphery of the outsole from heel breast to heel breast. Once the stitching was completed, the thread could be pulled tight, cinching the outsole to the insole. Of course, the thread would have to be tied off to start and complete the process --not sure how/where this is done, but perhaps somewhere on the grain side of the outsole under the heel, where it would be hidden?

Anyway, don't know if that helps, but that is my 'best' thinking on the topic. I hope someone more knowledgeable might be able to enlighten us.

Lance

DW,

Not exactly, Garsault called these "non-turned pumps" (escarpin non retour), or non-turnshoe-pumps. This did not parse in English. The construction was called "channel" in English. The footwear made this way "channels", or "channel pumps" when pumps, or "channel shoes" when shoes, etc.

Don't know where you saw "pump-stitch"

Lance,

Never seen what you described, but then I'm not sure what you described

Sounds almost like the hidden-stitch used on Medieval sole repairs, annoyingly called "tunnel stitching" these days, but a made-up term that.

Al,

How does the "channel stitch" described in the construction of "channel pumps" in Garsault compare to what Koleff is doing?

Garsault mentions two lines of stitching but other than that it looks (according to the diagram) and sounds like fundamentally the same technique...or at least the results seem the same.

Thoughts?

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

(Message edited by dw on January 31, 2011)

DW,

Sorry, forgot to mention "double-channels" (w/ two rows of this stitching). I haven't seen the Koleff video, but if it's like what a MacKay machine does, but with a regular shoemaker's stitch that's formed rather than a chain stitch, it's good old fashioned 18thc "channel stitching".

There was a craze in the mid 1800s for channeling ("channel-stitching"] in very narrow waisted dress Wellington boots. There's a nice pair, c.1840s, Vienna, Austria made, in The Museum of the Confederacy, Richmond, VA; red Morocco legs with black footing. The foreparts were welted, but where you might peg the waist for that narrow beveled "cowboy" shank look, those guys just channel-stitched. Pegging-on soles was in those days a "foreign" American innovation, and the Europeans were skeptical. Seems they would rather harken back to the 18thc tool kit of techniques, rather than cheap "space age" American weirdness. Jesse may well be right that a pegging awl was used to hole the soles while the last was inside, but it would have to be a mighty fine blade. Garsault and Hasluck imply that a regular sewing awl was used.

As long as you can get your hand in to poke the inside bristle through to the outside, and still see what you're doing, you're in high cotton. It only gets nasty if you channel-stitch down into the darkness under the vamp where your hands can't go. The third bit of thread was traditional, but if folded guitar strings or fuse wire gets you there, so be it.

In the 18thc. channel shoes, channel-stitched all around, the uppers are lasted; the lasting margin neatly whip-stitched to the under side of the insole: bottom filled, shank-piece laid in and pegged, the outsole pasted on and channel cut and opened; the last slipped, and the channel-stitching done. The last is then re-inserted, the channel lips laid flat and the bottom finished, the heel built, and the shoe is finished as usual.

Here is an interesting description of the English style of pump stitching (a.k.a. blind welt stitching), which is more akin to a regular welted process.

http://www.newsaboutshoes.de/showthread.php?t=746

For followers of Marcell's blog this is similar to what he calls a German stitch, except I believe he leaves the welt a bit wider and finishes it with a fudge wheel.

Lance

Al,

Yes, that's what Koleff is depicting in the video.

I fear I may have confused things when I described it as a "hand done Blake stitch." That said, I purposefully did not refer to "McKay" stitching because I know that McKay is generally a chain-stitch...although (as I'm sure you know) there is/was a lock-stitch McKay, as well.

I'm sure I also conflated the illustration in Garsault with idea of "channel pumps" to arrive at "pump stitch." I still have not run across a specific terminology for what is illustrated in that section of ADC, but then I am ashamed to admit that I have not read Garsault-Saguto as carefully as I should. But if "channel stitching" is correct, historically or otherwise, I am happy to use it.

I'm also prompted to use it in making shoes especially where a glue-on sole might otherwise be the only alternative, ie. women's oxfords.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

Lance,

Presumably this is not what you were referring to above. Or is it?

If not, then we now have several English origin definitions/descriptions of "pump stitching." One from BS who is generally speaking quite knowledgeable...and living in the UK; and another from the fellow at Lobbs.

Which illustrates the problem doesn't it?

I understand that what we English speakers commonly know as a "French hammer" is known as an "English hammer" in France.

You say tomato, I say tomahto...let's call the whole thing off.

And maybe just call what Koleff and Garsault and Saguto are referring to "channel stitching?"

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

A very interesting topic and here is what the old shoe maker showed me how to sew light shoes(attaching upper to insole), I contiued to use it for shoes for the elderly and lighter than welted shoes, I explained the construction of it here in the past,Although the soles are cemented,I can't recall a sole separting before it's worn out,the shoe you see is more than 10 years old with it's original sole,mind you they are only worn in the summer.

Nasse

DW,

Sounds like we're on the same page now with "channel-stitching". I'm not a fan of MacKay lock-stitch--it's too tight and makes too inflexible a bottom IMO. The chain-stitch is inherently loser, but if the threads are well protected, especially the fragile chain-side, it gives superior results I think. Problem with either of these, or the "channel-stitch", is it's a direct vertical attachment, which, like pegging or nailing keeps the soles from moving over one another when walking.

Another "ancient" handsewn cran from the 1700s (at least) that might be useful for light-weight or "dress" shoes is the "sew-round" technique. This is more flexible than "channel-stitching", puts more thread and wax into the work and is a transverse semi-indirect attachment (=stronger than vertical "channel" stitch), is easier to do, but sadly it's as eminently not-easily-repairable.

1) Make a feather and holdfast around your insole as for welted

2) Last the upper as usual

3) Make a good heavily-waxed stout sewing (inseaming) thread, and sew all round the entire shoe sans any welts or seat rands. Trim the uppers down flush; lightly hammer and rub the sewing seam down as flat as you can get it; lay in the shank-piece and bottom fill.

4) Cement on your outsole only up to the top of the holdfast, not outside it or to the edge of the outsole.

5) Now, with a fairly well curved "pump blade" sewing awl, slip the awl behind the first sewing stitch at the heel breast, and poke it through to where the point almost breaks the surface on the outsole--do not go all the way through. Do this at several key places around the whole shoe. Following the bumps on the outsole made my the awl, trace, cut and then open a channel for sole stitching.

5) Make a good thread for the stitching. Then sole stitch, passing the awl behind each sewing (inseam) stitch so the stitching stitches interlock like a chain with every sewing stitch--same as for a "sewn seat" construction, just all the way around.

6) Finish by hammering your outsole edge up close to the upper hiding all the sewing/stitching, trim and finish the edge close to the upper, build your heel, and there you have it. In regard to the heel, when sole-stitching around the seat, you can stitch on the split-lift as you stitch the outsole, then peg on the middle and top-piece of the heel later.

If this works for you, send me 40 Billion Dollars in small un-marked bills left in a brown paper bag under the park bench at precisely 3:00 p,m., and come alone

Mr. Saguta,

If it would not be too much trouble could you please give an illustration of steps 4 through 6. After that I will leave the bag of unmarked bills under the bench. But with 20 inches of snow here in Illinois it might be a while before I can get out of the house and to the park bench. Be patient.
Geri

Geraldine,

Sorry no digi-cams here, just rain and a high forecast of 71! Only supposed to hit 30 here tomorrow.

Which parts of 4-6 were obscure? Maybe I can explain them better.

D.A.

I was just being a smart ass. You were very clear in your explanation.

Always amazing!

Geri

Thanks Geraldine!

I'm the quintessential straight-man in most comedic repartee--you know me well enough to know that by now

Al:

I think what you just wrote about may be what I was referring to earlier. I believe the apprentice at Lobbs was chalking the flesh side of the outsole to mark where the awl holes in your step #5 should go. What I didn't know was that the awl hole was for indicating/transferring to the grain side where the channel should go -- I thought it was used for actually sewing on the outsole.

I should think that getting the outsole thread under/behind the sewing seam back through the outsole would prove quite a challenge.

FWIW, I am told the apprentice at Lobbs is/was up in Edinburgh studying the pump stitch with the remaining master of the technique.


Thanks,
Lance