Jenny,
As I understand it, the "toe box" is the stiffener.
Ordinarily the stiffener is sandwiched between the lining and the vamp, but I have seen shoes made with no lining but the stiffener is still there...cemented to the fleshside of the vamp. You can used "press cement" for a little more firmness.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
Toe boxes
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jenny_fleishman
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Re: Toe boxes
Thanks, DW. That darn vocabulary! Next thing you know, I'll be calling cement "glue" again! ...Can you clarify what "press cement" is, and where one can buy it? (I can't quite figure it out from previous posts.) Would Barge also work OK, or does it remain too flexible? If the toe box stiffener is adequately stiff, would that matter? Thanks.
Jenny
Jenny
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relferink
Re: Toe boxes
Jenny,
As DW said, you can attach it to the flesh side of the upper but I have only seen this done with synthetic toe boxes, not leather. Using Press cement on a synthetic toebox is not something I have seen done and I'm not even sure it would work.
As to using a leather toe box in a not lined shoe, I wouldn't since the the making is difficult if not nearly impossible. Keeping the Press cement from seeping out form under the toe box and glue the upper to the last is very hard and it would make you have to cut the shoe off the last and ruin it. Not using press cement would not give you the firmness and shape in the toe box you need.
Where to get the Press cement, maybe someone else can help you here, I've gotten mine the last time from a Dutch company when I was back home, just picked up a jar and it's lasting me a long time since for production shoes I rarely use leather on the counters and never on the toe boxes. I'm still planning om making myself some shoes or boots one of these days and will use leather counters and toe boxes for those!
The toe box material like Tepp II is glued on one side, glue this to the flesh side of the upper after you have stitched your upper. Then the trick is to get the toe lasted without wrinkles. You have to heat the front and work fast and re-heat with the heat-gun near constantly. Not something I would advice someone to do on their first pair of shoes or on their first couple of dozen shoes for that matter.
Why not leave the toe box out all together. The toe won't keep it's shape all that well but if you wet last and let it sit on your last for a couple of weeks it isn't going to be horrible as long as the leather you use has some "body" to it.
Rob
As DW said, you can attach it to the flesh side of the upper but I have only seen this done with synthetic toe boxes, not leather. Using Press cement on a synthetic toebox is not something I have seen done and I'm not even sure it would work.
As to using a leather toe box in a not lined shoe, I wouldn't since the the making is difficult if not nearly impossible. Keeping the Press cement from seeping out form under the toe box and glue the upper to the last is very hard and it would make you have to cut the shoe off the last and ruin it. Not using press cement would not give you the firmness and shape in the toe box you need.
Where to get the Press cement, maybe someone else can help you here, I've gotten mine the last time from a Dutch company when I was back home, just picked up a jar and it's lasting me a long time since for production shoes I rarely use leather on the counters and never on the toe boxes. I'm still planning om making myself some shoes or boots one of these days and will use leather counters and toe boxes for those!
The toe box material like Tepp II is glued on one side, glue this to the flesh side of the upper after you have stitched your upper. Then the trick is to get the toe lasted without wrinkles. You have to heat the front and work fast and re-heat with the heat-gun near constantly. Not something I would advice someone to do on their first pair of shoes or on their first couple of dozen shoes for that matter.
Why not leave the toe box out all together. The toe won't keep it's shape all that well but if you wet last and let it sit on your last for a couple of weeks it isn't going to be horrible as long as the leather you use has some "body" to it.
Rob
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dw
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Re: Toe boxes
Jenny,
Robert's right about the press cement maybe running out...if you're not super careful, but here's what I'd do:
Now, I've never done this (so proceed at your own risk
) but at some point enough experience gives you a pretty good basis from which to extrapolate...it's worth a shot at any rate.
Last your shoe. Let it dry. Take the tacks loose back to the ball. Peel back the toe of the vamp. Coat the toe of the last with lanolin or saddlesoap.
Cut a 2 ounce piece of veg tanned calf large enough to pull over the insole. Skive the edge closest to the heel. Soak in warm water. Last the stiffener, grainside to the last. Drive a tack in dead center top of stiffener to prevent pulling it over the toe. Move all pipes and wrinkles onto the insole. Let the stiffener dry thoroughly. Pull that center tack. Do any further and final shaping and level the pipes and wrinkles where they are pulled over the insole. Coat the stiffener with press cement...careful to avoid getting any on last. Maybe coat several times. Finally, moisten the vamp, place one final coat of press cement on the toe box and pull the vamp toe over the stiffener and the toe of the last in one swift motion...making sure all movement is forward. Re-last and tack the toe and let dry.
The other alternative would be to use a potato or flour paste in lieu of the press cement.
As for a source for press cement (sometime known as "celluloid cement"<IMG SRC=$html_url/clipart/wink.gif" ...I believe the address is just above.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
(Message edited by dw on March 21, 2006)
Robert's right about the press cement maybe running out...if you're not super careful, but here's what I'd do:
Now, I've never done this (so proceed at your own risk
) but at some point enough experience gives you a pretty good basis from which to extrapolate...it's worth a shot at any rate. Last your shoe. Let it dry. Take the tacks loose back to the ball. Peel back the toe of the vamp. Coat the toe of the last with lanolin or saddlesoap.
Cut a 2 ounce piece of veg tanned calf large enough to pull over the insole. Skive the edge closest to the heel. Soak in warm water. Last the stiffener, grainside to the last. Drive a tack in dead center top of stiffener to prevent pulling it over the toe. Move all pipes and wrinkles onto the insole. Let the stiffener dry thoroughly. Pull that center tack. Do any further and final shaping and level the pipes and wrinkles where they are pulled over the insole. Coat the stiffener with press cement...careful to avoid getting any on last. Maybe coat several times. Finally, moisten the vamp, place one final coat of press cement on the toe box and pull the vamp toe over the stiffener and the toe of the last in one swift motion...making sure all movement is forward. Re-last and tack the toe and let dry.
The other alternative would be to use a potato or flour paste in lieu of the press cement.
As for a source for press cement (sometime known as "celluloid cement"<IMG SRC=$html_url/clipart/wink.gif" ...I believe the address is just above.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
(Message edited by dw on March 21, 2006)
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dw
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Re: Toe boxes
Jenny,
The source for press cement is in a post just above these--Mid-West Industrial.
BTW, especially if you are using a plastic last, it would be possible, after the vamp has been re-lasted and the press cement has had a chance to dry and harden up, to un-last the forepart of the shoe and make sure that the press cement was not adhereing to the last. The vamp will be cemented to the toe box and they will both come away together and can be again re-lasted...perfectly...once theany wayward preess cement has been cleared.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
The source for press cement is in a post just above these--Mid-West Industrial.
BTW, especially if you are using a plastic last, it would be possible, after the vamp has been re-lasted and the press cement has had a chance to dry and harden up, to un-last the forepart of the shoe and make sure that the press cement was not adhereing to the last. The vamp will be cemented to the toe box and they will both come away together and can be again re-lasted...perfectly...once theany wayward preess cement has been cleared.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
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jenny_fleishman
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Re: Toe boxes
Thanks, all. My main reason for wanting to do this is I'm going to make an unlined fitter shoe out of 4-5 oz chap leather and I want to be sure that the toe area really is high enough that when I make a lined shoe with a stiff toe box on the same last it won't press down on my big toe. I'm concerned that if I don't stiffen the toe area it might be hard to tell. I don't care if the result looks good on the fitter shoe, as long as I can judge the fit.
Jenny
Jenny
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relferink
Re: Toe boxes
Jenny,
For a fitting shoe just put the toebox on the outside, it doesn't matter how it looks, just how if feels and if there is enough room.
Rob
For a fitting shoe just put the toebox on the outside, it doesn't matter how it looks, just how if feels and if there is enough room.
Rob
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djulan
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Re: Toe boxes
Jenny,
Agreed (with Robert), if the look does not matter and this a 'feel' test - put the toebox (and for that matter the counter) outside. You can then forget any details of materials, and how to work them - out of the question. A stiffener outside gives a true feel regardless of technique.
Simply last all your uppers and afterwords last your toebox and counters (regardless of materials) "on top" of the shoe's uppers. This will give you a great feel for fit.
The advantage is you will bene'fit' from your own feed back and you are also the shoemaker. Adapt your feedback into the finished pair - later.
Doing it is the best teacher (shoe fit is an enigma). We all need to do it (over and over) to really become shoe and bootmakers. Our understanding comes only from experience.
Respectfully of all,
David Ulan
Agreed (with Robert), if the look does not matter and this a 'feel' test - put the toebox (and for that matter the counter) outside. You can then forget any details of materials, and how to work them - out of the question. A stiffener outside gives a true feel regardless of technique.
Simply last all your uppers and afterwords last your toebox and counters (regardless of materials) "on top" of the shoe's uppers. This will give you a great feel for fit.
The advantage is you will bene'fit' from your own feed back and you are also the shoemaker. Adapt your feedback into the finished pair - later.
Doing it is the best teacher (shoe fit is an enigma). We all need to do it (over and over) to really become shoe and bootmakers. Our understanding comes only from experience.
Respectfully of all,
David Ulan
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jenny_fleishman
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dw
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Re: Toe boxes
Jenny,
No disagreement with either Robert or David, here. I make fitter's models with many of the components that are usually inside, on the ouside, myself.
But I know you are interested in making dance shoes. Dance shoes are often unlined to save weight and to increase flexibility.
At the same time all the dance shoes I've ever seen could benefit from a thin but firm toe box.
Putting the toe stiffener inside the shoe, even if it is a fitter's shoe, makes the shoe wearable for dancing and gives you the experience you will need if you want to make dance shoes that are unlined. You'll have to do it sometime and if you wait to figure out all the ins and outs til you are engaged in making a shoe that "counts," you may wish you had that experince big time.
just another $.02 for the kitty...
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HC
No disagreement with either Robert or David, here. I make fitter's models with many of the components that are usually inside, on the ouside, myself.
But I know you are interested in making dance shoes. Dance shoes are often unlined to save weight and to increase flexibility.
At the same time all the dance shoes I've ever seen could benefit from a thin but firm toe box.
Putting the toe stiffener inside the shoe, even if it is a fitter's shoe, makes the shoe wearable for dancing and gives you the experience you will need if you want to make dance shoes that are unlined. You'll have to do it sometime and if you wait to figure out all the ins and outs til you are engaged in making a shoe that "counts," you may wish you had that experince big time.
just another $.02 for the kitty...
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HC
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shoestring
Re: Toe boxes
What's the best method for putting on the heel counter?Or you follow the same as the toe box.And once completed relast the upper and sew the welt on.
Ed
Ed
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dw
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Re: Toe boxes
Ed,
Who are you asking?
I don't make many shoes...I'm far from an expert and perhaps the last guy you should ask....if it's me you're asking....
That said, shoes, even unlined shoes, generally have the heel stiffener sandwiched between either a "counter pocket" or the liner. Occasionally you'll see a shoe (or especially a lace-up boot ala DW's method) with a counter that is sewn in...just like on a classic "cowboy" boot. But this is a more difficult method both in terms of patterning and assembly.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member H
Who are you asking?
I don't make many shoes...I'm far from an expert and perhaps the last guy you should ask....if it's me you're asking....
That said,
shoes, even unlined shoes, generally have the heel stiffener sandwiched between either a "counter pocket" or the liner. Occasionally you'll see a shoe (or especially a lace-up boot ala DW's method) with a counter that is sewn in...just like on a classic "cowboy" boot. But this is a more difficult method both in terms of patterning and assembly. Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member H
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relferink
Re: Toe boxes
Ed,
You can do it like the toe box as so well explained above by DW, the other way is prep your counters, glue them up and place between liner and upper. Than just last the shoe and let it sit for a day or so as the counter dries. You could sew the welt on before it is dries, in fact it is easier to sew the welt while the counter is still moist. Just make sure not to pull the last to quickly.
Like with so many things, there is no good or bad way to do it, just the way that works for you. Personally I use both methods depending on the upper and for orthopedic shoes depending on the deformity / shape of the last I choose the method I think will be best. I have to put the disclaimer in that for my customers shoes I rearely use leather counter and never leather toe boxes. In fact I only do it if the customer is very insistant, since it takes more time I charge more and personally find that the extra cost for leather does not translate in and equal added value. Ultimatle this is up to the customer but I do not encourage leather.
I know not everybody agrees with me on this and truth be told, if I ever get around to making myself more shoes the counters will be leather but that's because than an hourly rate is not a factor.
For those with not a lot of experience I would advice trying to put the counter on the lining with the upper folded back, finish it nice and smooth and than close the upper. This way you can correct things that did not go perfect before closing the upper but this method takes more time.
That is for leather, if you use a counter that is synthetic and made playable with a solvent you would sandwich it in between the upper and liner and last the shoe, that's the only way to get it smooth.
DW, are you using any side linings behind the toe box? I did not see it in the pictures above. Have you ever and why or why not if I may ask.
Rob
You can do it like the toe box as so well explained above by DW, the other way is prep your counters, glue them up and place between liner and upper. Than just last the shoe and let it sit for a day or so as the counter dries. You could sew the welt on before it is dries, in fact it is easier to sew the welt while the counter is still moist. Just make sure not to pull the last to quickly.
Like with so many things, there is no good or bad way to do it, just the way that works for you. Personally I use both methods depending on the upper and for orthopedic shoes depending on the deformity / shape of the last I choose the method I think will be best. I have to put the disclaimer in that for my customers shoes I rearely use leather counter and never leather toe boxes. In fact I only do it if the customer is very insistant, since it takes more time I charge more and personally find that the extra cost for leather does not translate in and equal added value. Ultimatle this is up to the customer but I do not encourage leather.
I know not everybody agrees with me on this and truth be told, if I ever get around to making myself more shoes the counters will be leather but that's because than an hourly rate is not a factor.
For those with not a lot of experience I would advice trying to put the counter on the lining with the upper folded back, finish it nice and smooth and than close the upper. This way you can correct things that did not go perfect before closing the upper but this method takes more time.
That is for leather, if you use a counter that is synthetic and made playable with a solvent you would sandwich it in between the upper and liner and last the shoe, that's the only way to get it smooth.
DW, are you using any side linings behind the toe box? I did not see it in the pictures above. Have you ever and why or why not if I may ask.
Rob
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dw
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Re: Toe boxes
Robert,
Sure you can ask...I'm always game. And that's what the CC is about--discussion and exchange of ideas.
Yes, I sometimes use sidelining (I call them mid linings) but the way I was taught and have, in the course of three+ decades, further refined, the toe box is thinned to the point where the trailing edge not only cannot be felt before relasting the vamp, but even on the thinnest of kangaroo, cannot be seen.
I add mid linings to strengthen and reinforce the inseam where I might worry about it getting rough use or where the leather is...again, with the kangaroo...thin. I don't necessarily add it to extend the heel stiffener forward or the toe stiffener backward--as some of the old literature suggests--however, it does have that incidental...and perhaps beneficial...effect.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
Sure you can ask...I'm always game. And that's what the CC is about--discussion and exchange of ideas.
Yes, I sometimes use sidelining (I call them mid linings) but the way I was taught and have, in the course of three+ decades, further refined, the toe box is thinned to the point where the trailing edge not only cannot be felt before relasting the vamp, but even on the thinnest of kangaroo, cannot be seen.
I add mid linings to strengthen and reinforce the inseam where I might worry about it getting rough use or where the leather is...again, with the kangaroo...thin. I don't necessarily add it to extend the heel stiffener forward or the toe stiffener backward--as some of the old literature suggests--however, it does have that incidental...and perhaps beneficial...effect.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
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jenny_fleishman
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Re: Toe boxes
DW, talked to Mid-West Industrial about press cement, and it is approx. $32 a gallon plus $25 hazardous materials fee plus shipping. The person I spoke to suggested looking for nitrocellulose model airplane glue. There is such a product, Devcon Duco Cement. However, in doing searches about it I came across a site (which I can't find again) that said nitrocellulose becomes brittle over time. This doesn't sound like a desirable quality, and I'm wondering if press cement really IS nitrocellulose. Any info appreciated!
Jenny
Jenny
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dw
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Re: Toe boxes
Jenny,
Don't believe everything you read on the Internet! Nitrocellulose may well become brittle over time, but all these companies making it use "additives" of some sort or the other to increase flexibility.
And the real question is over what period of time? Old film is made of nitrocellulose and while some of it is getting brittle most of that is near on to a hundred years old.
Nitrocellulose is a very old product. They used to make billiard balls of it in the late 19th century--"fake ivory." Kupie dolls were made of it going back to the late 19th and early 20th century. And it was essentially a natural product...being cellulose based.
But that's all trivia and trivial. Bottom line is that it's not gonna get brittle in your lifetime.
I wouldn't use the Duco though. I've seen lots of this stuff and some of the additives will make you sick the minute you breath any of it. As it is, the best of what's available is acetone based.
But if you're worried, use all purpose or dextrine or even rye flour paste for putting in toe boxes.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
Don't believe everything you read on the Internet! Nitrocellulose may well become brittle over time, but all these companies making it use "additives" of some sort or the other to increase flexibility.
And the real question is over what period of time? Old film is made of nitrocellulose and while some of it is getting brittle most of that is near on to a hundred years old.
Nitrocellulose is a very old product. They used to make billiard balls of it in the late 19th century--"fake ivory." Kupie dolls were made of it going back to the late 19th and early 20th century. And it was essentially a natural product...being cellulose based.
But that's all trivia and trivial. Bottom line is that it's not gonna get brittle in your lifetime.
I wouldn't use the Duco though. I've seen lots of this stuff and some of the additives will make you sick the minute you breath any of it. As it is, the best of what's available is acetone based.
But if you're worried, use all purpose or dextrine or even rye flour paste for putting in toe boxes.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
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jenny_fleishman
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Re: Toe boxes
I think I'll try Barge All-Purpose for the toe box and heel counter, but put the upper onto the stiffeners immediately after applying the cement, rather than letting it dry until it's tacky, hoping there will be some "slip and slide" at this point. Unless, of course, someone knows this will be disastrous!
Jenny
Jenny
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relferink
Re: Toe boxes
Jenny,
I would not do it this way since the counter will not set up the same way, what I mean is that press cement helps give the toebox and counter stance. Contact cement does not harden up and stays flexible so the counter and toebox will loose their shape quicker. I can understand you hesitate to work with the chemicals in press cement and would rather not go through the ordering expenses. DW’s suggestion of dextrine or rye flour paste would be better. I’ve also heard of potato starch being used but I’m not sure if it’s formulated in any way other than straight starch.
I found a company on line, based in Chicago that seems to deal with crafts people and offers smaller quantities on different types of adhesives, including dextrine. www.usadhesive.com You may want to give them a call.
Rob
I would not do it this way since the counter will not set up the same way, what I mean is that press cement helps give the toebox and counter stance. Contact cement does not harden up and stays flexible so the counter and toebox will loose their shape quicker. I can understand you hesitate to work with the chemicals in press cement and would rather not go through the ordering expenses. DW’s suggestion of dextrine or rye flour paste would be better. I’ve also heard of potato starch being used but I’m not sure if it’s formulated in any way other than straight starch.
I found a company on line, based in Chicago that seems to deal with crafts people and offers smaller quantities on different types of adhesives, including dextrine. www.usadhesive.com You may want to give them a call.
Rob
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erickgeer
Re: Toe boxes
Robert,
Thanks for the tip. I will call US Adhesives today- they are only three blocks from my workshop!
I talked to Midwest yesterday, and will probably order a sample of the nitrocellulose cement if it's not too expensive.
Erick
Thanks for the tip. I will call US Adhesives today- they are only three blocks from my workshop!
I talked to Midwest yesterday, and will probably order a sample of the nitrocellulose cement if it's not too expensive.
Erick
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jenny_fleishman
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Re: Toe boxes
Erick, Rob,
I just called US Adhesives, too. They're probably wondering what's going on! Waiting for the expert to call me back.
It has been said (on this board) that Dextrine, being organic, is rumored to attract insects, which makes me hesitant to use it. Does anyone have any experience with this? Maybe it's an old wives' tale!
Erick, do you feel you don't have use for a whole gallon of press cement? If you're interested in a smaller quantity I'd be up for splitting a gallon with you. I just have a feeling that all my cements are going to go bad on me before I use them up. Actually, it will be a miracle if they don't!
Jenny
I just called US Adhesives, too. They're probably wondering what's going on! Waiting for the expert to call me back.
It has been said (on this board) that Dextrine, being organic, is rumored to attract insects, which makes me hesitant to use it. Does anyone have any experience with this? Maybe it's an old wives' tale!
Erick, do you feel you don't have use for a whole gallon of press cement? If you're interested in a smaller quantity I'd be up for splitting a gallon with you. I just have a feeling that all my cements are going to go bad on me before I use them up. Actually, it will be a miracle if they don't!
Jenny
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dw
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Re: Toe boxes
Jenny,
First, dextrine and rye flour paste and even potato starch are good food sources for insects. But that said, it's not like they exude some sort of pheromone that will attract them from miles away. If you have cockroaches in your house...you may have problems. 'Course you could always stick some citronella down in the shoe. Organic "cements"/glues are usually made up in small batches and are water based, so you really don't have to worry about spoilage.
Second, the press cement from Midwest is about the best I've used since Barge discontinued their line. It doesn't make me sick. But since it is solved by acetone it can almost never go bad. Heck, I save dried up drippings and re-dissolve them in acetone and re-use the resulting cement. Can't tell the difference.
Third, while I am sure that Robert is correct for his method, since I am using, what is fundamentally, 6 iron soling leather for toe boxes, and 10-11 iron for heel stiffeners, all-purpose works fine. They really don't need any further stiffening. My master used AP with his toe boxes all the time. He would slop it on and while still wet pull and wipe the toes. I went to celluloid cement for other reasons...among them was that I wanted to use thinner toe boxes ( 2+ ounce veg 'roo) on occasion. And in that case, I did indeed intend to stiffen the leather a bit.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
First, dextrine and rye flour paste and even potato starch are good food sources for insects. But that said, it's not like they exude some sort of pheromone that will attract them from miles away. If you have cockroaches in your house...you may have problems. 'Course you could always stick some citronella down in the shoe. Organic "cements"/glues are usually made up in small batches and are water based, so you really don't have to worry about spoilage.
Second, the press cement from Midwest is about the best I've used since Barge discontinued their line. It doesn't make me sick. But since it is solved by acetone it can almost never go bad. Heck, I save dried up drippings and re-dissolve them in acetone and re-use the resulting cement. Can't tell the difference.
Third, while I am sure that Robert is correct for his method, since I am using, what is fundamentally, 6 iron soling leather for toe boxes, and 10-11 iron for heel stiffeners, all-purpose works fine. They really don't need any further stiffening. My master used AP with his toe boxes all the time. He would slop it on and while still wet pull and wipe the toes. I went to celluloid cement for other reasons...among them was that I wanted to use thinner toe boxes ( 2+ ounce veg 'roo) on occasion. And in that case, I did indeed intend to stiffen the leather a bit.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
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jenny_fleishman
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- Full Name: Jenny Fleishman
- Location: Chicago, IL, USA
- Been Liked: 2 times
Re: Toe boxes
The toe box and heel counter on my fitter shoe are 2 to 3 oz, and I imagine I'll probably never use heavier than 4-5 oz. in anything I make...
U.S. Adhesives called back, and they are shipping me a (very generous) sample of their Dextrine, which they say has additives to prevent mold and fungus growth. Will give that a try for starters.
Jenny
U.S. Adhesives called back, and they are shipping me a (very generous) sample of their Dextrine, which they say has additives to prevent mold and fungus growth. Will give that a try for starters.
Jenny
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erickgeer
Re: Toe boxes
Peter at US Adhesives was very helpful, I also got a sample- normaly it runs $40 per gallon. I explained to him how he happened to get two calls in a day for dextrine.
We had a conversation about waterbased contact cements- he's not too optimistic for using waterbased adhesives for sole applications. This really is a topic for another thread- but does anyone happen to know what Cydwoq uses for attaching soles? They advertise that they are using solvent free adhesives, and I've never heard of their shoes falling apart- anyone?
Back to toe box stuff...
Jenny, I'm going to experiment with the dextrine for now, but let me know if you start obsessing on trying the Cellulose. I would be surprised if there isn't a source here in the city for the stuff.
Erick
We had a conversation about waterbased contact cements- he's not too optimistic for using waterbased adhesives for sole applications. This really is a topic for another thread- but does anyone happen to know what Cydwoq uses for attaching soles? They advertise that they are using solvent free adhesives, and I've never heard of their shoes falling apart- anyone?
Back to toe box stuff...
Jenny, I'm going to experiment with the dextrine for now, but let me know if you start obsessing on trying the Cellulose. I would be surprised if there isn't a source here in the city for the stuff.
Erick
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siskiyou
Re: Toe boxes
Hi Erick,
I own 7 pairs of Cydwoq's!! I swear by them. The only thing I have had a problem with is the natural rubber he uses on the bottom, it wears out fairly quicly.
As for glue, I don't know what he uses, but mine have held up extrmely well. I just had my favorite pair fixed after comng unglued at the ball of the foot.
They are about 3.5 years old and have had lots and and lots of hard wear in wet Oregon winters.
My favorite shoe repair guy asked if I sit at a desk with my feet constantly bent at the ball, well sort of, I sit at a sewing machine doing that. He said that was the main reason they were coming apart, because of the unusual bending stress I was putting on them, not the glue.
I've written to Cydwoq before for other reasons and they have been happy to answer my questions. They may be willing to share the type of glue they use.
Terri
Portland Oregon
I own 7 pairs of Cydwoq's!! I swear by them. The only thing I have had a problem with is the natural rubber he uses on the bottom, it wears out fairly quicly.
As for glue, I don't know what he uses, but mine have held up extrmely well. I just had my favorite pair fixed after comng unglued at the ball of the foot.
They are about 3.5 years old and have had lots and and lots of hard wear in wet Oregon winters.
My favorite shoe repair guy asked if I sit at a desk with my feet constantly bent at the ball, well sort of, I sit at a sewing machine doing that. He said that was the main reason they were coming apart, because of the unusual bending stress I was putting on them, not the glue.
I've written to Cydwoq before for other reasons and they have been happy to answer my questions. They may be willing to share the type of glue they use.
Terri
Portland Oregon
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relferink
Re: Toe boxes
Jenny, Erick
Glad to hear US Adhesives turned out to be a decent source. Came across them at work today but did not have a chance to get in touch with them. The web site seemed interesting and since they were local to both of you. Please let me know how the dextrine and Cellulose work out. I may have a job coming up for someone with allergies for organic solvents. So I may have to get back to the roots and use leather counters and toe-boxes.
DW, I did not mean to go against something that you suggested by using all purpose, in fact this morning I read Jenny's post and glanced over yours, did not even pick up on the suggestion of using contact cement till I had already written most of my post. My reply was mostly instinctive, back in school only the suggestion of contact cement on leather counter and toe boxes would be enough to get you expelled! Using leather that is thick enough would indeed not make a difference and otherwise the difference is probably marginal. This is one of the few times where I actually listened to my teachers and never even tried a different approach. After all it was one of those teachers that told me I was to stubborn for my own good. I told him I considered that to be the greatest complement he could make. Things were never really the same after that.
Rob
Glad to hear US Adhesives turned out to be a decent source. Came across them at work today but did not have a chance to get in touch with them. The web site seemed interesting and since they were local to both of you. Please let me know how the dextrine and Cellulose work out. I may have a job coming up for someone with allergies for organic solvents. So I may have to get back to the roots and use leather counters and toe-boxes.
DW, I did not mean to go against something that you suggested by using all purpose, in fact this morning I read Jenny's post and glanced over yours, did not even pick up on the suggestion of using contact cement till I had already written most of my post. My reply was mostly instinctive, back in school only the suggestion of contact cement on leather counter and toe boxes would be enough to get you expelled! Using leather that is thick enough would indeed not make a difference and otherwise the difference is probably marginal. This is one of the few times where I actually listened to my teachers and never even tried a different approach. After all it was one of those teachers that told me I was to stubborn for my own good. I told him I considered that to be the greatest complement he could make. Things were never really the same after that.
Rob