Hand Wax / Coad

[dw]

Alasdair, Bruce, all,

I emailed Got-Grit last night and received a response this morning.

My question was: " I have seen "pitch' being offered for sale and it turned out it was nothing but pine rosin. Can you assure me that the Gugolz is indeed a true pine pitch?"

The answer was: "Yes my Pitch *is* Pitch."

So...not having bought any, but taking him at his word...I think one pound for roughly $10.00 is a pretty good deal and not too big an investment for those willing to give it a try. I think I would try the medium...#73.

BTW, for those didn't follow the link, Gugolz is a jeweler's lapping pitch made in Switzerland and all natural.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[lancepryor]

I just ordered some #73. I will try to give some feedback when I receive it, not that I am experienced or anything. I will compare it to DW's comments above, and also try making some hand wax with it. At least at this price, it is relatively affordable to try out.

[dw]

Aladair,

I talked to Meller Optics this morning. They are going to send me a sample.

I understand that they cannot ship to New Zealand.

If, when I get the sample and; if it is what we want; and if you haven't been able to get it anywhere else (Got-Grit?) I will order some for you and ship it to you myself...just for the cost and extra shipping to NZ.

Thanks for winkling out a source...maybe...hopefully...it sure sounds right.


Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[amuckart]

DW,

Thank you for that kind offer. You're right, Meller won't ship internationally for sub $200 orders, which isn't entirely unreasonable. Got-grit can ship in a USPS flat-rate box for a reasonable sum, but I will be very interested to hear what you think of the sample before I make an order from them.

Thanks.

[hidesmith]

DW,

How might the hot wax compare to beeswax? I have the batch of brittle black stuff mixed with beeswax, maybe 2/3 beeswax that I'm using, as well as a pound of beeswax that I bought with chemestry in mind, but lost the interest in trying again, at least, for now.

Is there anyone out there willing to try Georgene's suggestion and TEACH coad (sorry DW,) hand-wax making?

Thank you all for your input and sugestions

Bruce

[shoestring]

Bruce,

I read and reread the post that "Jake Dobbins" had concerning mixing and making hand wax.And my first batch was on the money.Do a word search for hand wax ,but I tell ya his recipe is the ticket.Just my take on it.

Ed

[dw]

Bruce,

I ordered some more hot wax the other day. I used to get Jared Holt Stitching wax. But this time it was Sellari's natural stitching wax. Comes in a one pound brick,

It can almost be used "as is" especially if you use the thread right away after waxing. But it can be a little brittle and may "flake" off the thread. So you can either slick the thread down with a hunk of beeswax or make up a batch, complete with the "taffy pull" routine.

The latter is what I do--I add beeswax to soften it a little--about 4 parts stitching wax to 1 part natural, organic, beeswax. If you get too much beeswax it may seem a little soft after pulling. But give it a day or so before you decide to alter the recipe. I made some this morning and it seems good but I will not know how I like it until tomorrow or later--whenever I wax up some more thread.

I actually think this works as well as any wax you can make especially if you are going to use it on dacron/polyester/Teklon thread. And if it is a little soft it just adheres that much better. I hate it when the wax just turns to dust as you pull it through the hole.

This is the easy way, I must admit, but no harm no fowl, to make a poultry joke.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[amuckart]

Here is how I make hand-wax, reposted from my blog, which is aimed more at the beginning amateur medieval reenactment shoemaker than professionals but here it is. Everything I know about hand wax I learned on this forum so if you're new to this read back through this topic for recipies that people use.

I use a basic 2:1 mixture, by weight, of pine rosin and clean yellow beeswax. This produces a wax that works for me, at the temperatures I work in, with the batch of rosin and wax I have at the moment. You will almost certainly need to tune the mixture to suit your own environment and ingredients. I'm pretty sure the batch I made before was 1:1 rosin and wax, but I was using different wax for that batch and it came out way too soft in that ratio with the wax I have now. You will most likely need to experiment to find the exact recipe that works for you.

As you experiment keep careful written track of the quantities and ratios of the ingredients, and keep your finished experimental wax in labelled baggies. If you do this you'll be able to re-melt failed experimental tries and know what you're starting with and what new ratios adding X amount of rosin or wax will result in. It also means that when you find a recipe that works, you can repeat it when you need more or if you are working with different ingredients you have a starting point that should produce something approximately right.

Before you use a new batch of wax on a shoe, build some seams in scrap pieces of leather and see how it works. This will save you building a bad seam in a project you're trying to finish.

The ambient temperature you work at is important. You need a harder wax in summer and a slightly softer one in winter. If you live somewhere with particularly hot summers you may well find that you can't work in summer unless you have air conditioning. Past a certain temperature, the wax just won't set enough to do it's job. Bristles will pull off and stitches won't lock. The only thing to do at that point is to stop working until it's cooler.

When the wax is at room temperature and hasn't been handled it should be hard. I've found that if it is at all malleable at this point then it is most likely too soft to reliably hold a bristle on the thread. Warmed in the hand it should become tacky but never goopy. It's a little harder to tell when it's too hard, but if you wax up a thread and it sheds 'dandruff' during sewing or when a thread that has been waxed and left to set sheds where it is flexed then it's too brittle.

Wax is supposed to be sticky, it is not a lubricant like plain beeswax is. As well as holding the bristle on the thread the wax melts slightly as it is dragged through a stitch and then sets again. The stickiness locks the stitches together in the stitch hole and contributes a significant amount of strength to the seam. I have cut the external parts of stitches off and still had to use pliers to pull the pieces of leather apart because they were held together with little pegs of waxed thread. This also stops the stitch you have just made from becoming loose when you release the tension on the thread. A good test of a wax is if you pull both threads part way through a stitch and leave them to sit for 20 seconds it should take a good hard yank to get them moving again after the wax has set them together.

Anyway, on to the making. This process involved mucking about with very hot melted stuff that will stick to you like napalm and cause nasty burns. Don't spill it on yourself m'kay?

Start with your ingredients. Rosin can be found in various places but it can take a bit of hunting to find a good supply. That stuff came from an antiques restoration supply place in Brisbane (thanks Dave!) called Goods and Chattels. Mistress M found a supply in NZ from a surf wax company of all places. Smaller quantities can be found at arts supply stores but expect to pay about 10x the price per gram there as you would buying it elsewhere. Beeswax you get from apiarists.

5608.jpg

Rosin on the left, beeswax on the right. The rosin is in a mortar because crushing it to a powder makes it melt much faster. It also makes it easy to weigh out exact amounts.

5609.jpg

Crushed Rosin. It pays to hold your hand over the top of the mortar and have some newspaper spread out as chips of rosin tend to go flying when you're breaking up the bigger lumps.

Before you start melting anything get a bucket and fill it mostly full of lukewarm water. You'll need this later, even if you don't set yourself on fire.

5610.jpg

Weigh out your ingredients. Be reasonably accurate with this and remember to zero your scales after you've put your container on before you fill it with the material. Yes, I've made that mistake.

5611.jpg

I wonder how many points(TM) 70g of beeswax is? I ended up using 60g of wax and 60g of rosin in this round, and it was way too soft so I had to go back and redo it. The other problem is that 120g of ingredients is about twice as much as it's easy to taffy-pull (see below) so if you're just making it for yourself, do 60g total. That'll make a lump big enough for several pairs of shoes. If you need to do a big batch pour a part of it at a time when the time comes.

5612.jpg

I use a big tin can to melt stuff in. I've pinched a spout into this one. If you use a saucepan be prepared to never use it for anything else because you won't get the wax residue off the inside. If you do use a tin can, make sure it doesn't have a plastic coating on the inside, or scrub it off if it does, otherwise you'll get melted flakes of plastic in your wax, and that's not good eats.

5613.jpg

Start by melting the rosin. I'm holding the tin can in a pot of boiling water with pot holder used on camping pots. You can do this over direct heat, but you need to be careful. Both ingredients are somewhat volatile when heated and highly flammable. I did the initial melt of the rosin directly over the element on low because the boiling water wasn't quite hot enough to get it really liquid but once it was melted I went back to the double boiler arrangement. An actual double boiler or a mini crock pot would be ideal for this.

5614.jpg

Once the rosin is all melted, add the beeswax. Rosin has a higher melting point that beeswax so it's easier to melt the wax into the rosin than to try melting the rosin into the wax.

5615.jpg

When everything is melted together properly it should be a clear amber color and you should be able to see the bottom of the tin. Ignore the white blobs in this, the bottom of the tin was plastic coated...

5616.jpg

Once you have melted everything together, pour it into the bucket of warm water. I've found that if the water is too cold, like cold tap water in winter, you'll get hard bits forming too quickly. I've had reports from others that they needed to use quite warm water to stop hard bits of rosin condensing out when they poured.

5617.jpg

Keeping your hands under water grab the lump, squish it together and pull it apart. You need to do this under water because the core of the lump will still be liquid and very, very hot. Repeat until there aren't any more searingly hot liquid bits then pull it out of the water.

A note about the following sequence of pictures; I'm doing this with about twice as much wax as I should be and the wax didn't come out very well because of that. A lump much bigger than a golf ball is too hard to manipulate thoroughly. You need to be able to squish the wax around in your hand to keep it soft while you go through this process.

Grab your lump of still-soft wax...

5618.jpg

and pull...

5619.jpg

smoosh it back together...

5620.jpg

and repeat

5621.jpg

This process is called "taffy-pulling", which apparently makes sense if you're familiar with the manufacture of traditional American confectionery. It is critical to the final product. A lot of the mixing of ingredients happens here and without this step the wax will have strata of wax and rosin that aren't fully combined. When you're done with this the whole ball should be a uniform pale yellow. The wax will take quite a long time to fully cool. Leave it overnight before you use it.

5622.jpg

The balls of wax resulting from this exercise. Note marbled color. This wax isn't fully combined because I was working with too much when I taffy-pulled it. I have since re melted one of these balls and added more rosin and it came out much better the second time around. I don't have pictures of that though, sorry.

5623.jpg

You can store surplus wax in airtight baggies. That way it won't stick to anything if it accidentally gets a bit warm. I've heard people say you should store it in water to stop it drying out. I'm not sure how necessary that is but I have found that it is more usable 24 hours or so after making than it is right after it has cooled.

[admin]

Alasdair,

This is a great tutorial. Thank you for posting it. I know, initmately, how much time and effort it takes to put together something like this.

good on ya, Mate

Emmett

[amuckart]

Emmet,

You're most welcome. I'm glad to be able to give something back to this forum where I'm learning so much.

[dw]

Alasdair,

I received my samples of the Gugolz Swedish optical/engraving pitch.

I got small amounts of #55, #64 and #73. I think any of the three might be OK...depending on how much you are willing to soften the final handwax by the addition of beeswax.

But the pitch I have from Rausch, while brittle, will slowly "melt" back into itself.

The samples of Gugolz I got seem very brittle in the #73. I could slowly, ever so slowly, bend the #55 but could not do that with the #64 or the #73.

Do bear in mind that you are combining it with rosin which is very brittle itself. So a little softness might not be a bad thing.

I have not had it long enough to determine if the harder samples will "melt" back into itself. So I cannot really compare it to the Rausch I have been using all these years.

My first inclination mught be to go with the #55 or perhaps the #63 but someone like Al Saguto, who uses this stuff every day, would have a better idea of what is the ideal consistancy.

That said, once the proper consistancy is determined, I think this is going to be a very good pitch--it is all natural, seems to be very pure and is relatively inexpensive for a reasonable amount.

I'd be interested in hearing your...or anyone else's...evaluation.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[romango]

I got a lb of the #73 from Gugolz pitch and rosin from the local dance supply store (ballet dancers put it on their shoes for grip). I don't have a brand on the rosin but I will get it. I Made a batch of hand wax 1:1:1 pitch:rosin:beeswax plus a few drops fish oil. I did the taffy pull thing, after melting them together. I am dubious that this has any effect as they are completely mixed when melted together, but ... I guess it is possible.

Anyway, the resulting hand wax seems very much like what I used at DW's class, both in the blob and on the thread. But I have yet to inseam with it. That will be the real test.

[amuckart]

DW, Rick, Thank you for posting your findings on this.

DW, given what this is used for I'm not surprised it's quite hard. The only reason I didn't buy some sight unseen was that I worried even the very soft would be too hard for our purposes.

According to http://www.photonics.com/content/spectra/2006/November/products/85054.aspx, the "very soft" #55 pitch has a melting point of 52 degrees C / 125 F which seems quite low to me. I'll buy a couple of kilos of that and one of the #64 if he can fit that in the fed-ex flat rate box, since I can always use it for sealing bottels and jacks.

I'm looking forward to this, between the linen thread I've got on the way, the kilo of bristles I'll get as soon as I can afford it and this I'm going to be working with much closer to period materials than I've been able to previously

[das]

My samples of Gugolz are yet to arrive, but once I've had a chance to fool with them, I'll report in, never fear.

Alasdair,

WARNING! Pine pitch and pine rosin are not food-safe. The Rausch products always came with warning labels. I know pitch was the historically correct stuff to line the insides of ancient drinking vessels, but you might want to double-check on it's safety to drink out of, lest you end up with litigious customers

[lancepryor]

I bought some of the #73. It does seem pretty brittle. I made some handwax following the 'traditional' recipe posted (way back when, on the archive CD) by Al Saguto -- 2 parts pitch, 1 part rosin, and a bit of beeswax. I probably made it with too little beeswax -- when taffy pulling it tended to snap, rather than letting me really stretch it out. Also, when waxing linen threads, it seems a bit brittle as well. Because of the melting point, I had to cook it in a small electric skillet I bought, rather than doing it double-boiler style -- just couldn't get it hot/liquid enough doing the latter with the equipment I have.

I am not sure that my wax adheres to the thread as well as I might hope; however, I don't really have much experience with superior handwaxes, so I don't know if my wax is substandard or this is typical of good handwax. When rubbing the wax down/burnishing it on the thread, it does seem to get fairly liquid. One thing I will say -- this stuff gives a really good 'lock' on the threads compared to other stuff I've used. If you let the threads sit for even a little while in the inseaming hole, you've really got to give the thread a yank to get it started again. And, if nothing else, I haven't lost a bristle while inseaming, which is always a small victory for me.

[amuckart]

Al,

Thanks for the warning. I mostly want to make a couple of pitch-lined examples to have ones built as close to "right" as I can manage, and to find out to what degree the pitch can be made to completely penetrate the leather as in the earlier examples.

If I ever get into making them for others the plan is to either use petrochemical brewers pitch or try dyeing the food-grade epoxy that winemakers use to seal barrels. The epoxy has the added advantage of being nigh indestructible, and insoluble in higher concentrations of alcohol

Out of curiosity, I've emailed Meller Optics to see if they have an MSDS for the Gugolz pitch.

I've used rosin cut with beeswax in the past for a couple of jacks without any problems but they only ever have weak beer or water in them, nothing strong enough to dissolve the sealant. The MSDS I found for that gum rosin listed it as an irritant if inhaled but otherwise non-toxic.

[das]

Alasdair,

Ah yes, the MSDS forms... Just didn't know that you all had them "over there" to suggest you ask for them, but they're a good idea to have on all the chemical goo we all have around our shops.

I share your interest in getting the authentic insides as a learning/educational thing, rather than the heavy petro-pitch lining. LMK how it turns out, and what the beer tastes like. I recall reading "someplace" (a dreaded citation I know) that pitch-lined leather vessels tainted the flavor of the beverages, and this piney taste gave rise to a certain drink flavored to mimic the residual pine-pitch taste. But, for the life of me I cannot recall what drink it is, but it's still made.

So, I guess to be authentic, the pitch needs to taint the beer, etc. Gee, won't folks just love that?

[amuckart]

Al,

I have the MSDS for the Gugolz pitch from Meller Optics. It's not especially detailed, but suffice it to say I won't be drinking out of anything treated with this stuff.

Rosin, as far as I know, is a minor skin irritant but not actually toxic. It sounds rather like this stuff may actually be toxic.

If you or anyone else would like a copy, feel free to email me at silver at where dot else dot net dot nz or PM me here with your email address and I'll forward it on.

Light beers like lager or small beer from the jack I sealed with roxin/beeswax had a very slight flavour imparted. The one I just soaked in beeswax made things taste like leather after it had worn a bit, which was a bit odd but not entirely unpleasant.

The drink you're thinking of may be restina which is a greek wine that has pine resin deliberately added. I've never tried it though, I'll stick to Lagavulin

Is there much history of leather drinking vessels in America? From what I've read they were an almost uniquely English thing.

[das]

Alasdair,

I only know of one leather vessel dug in the USA, from a 1630ish site on the south back of the James River. If you look at reenactors, and vendors of reenactment equipment, you might get the impression they were "common"

Thing is, by the time we were being colonized by Britain (1607-1783) the export market for cheap English ceramics had advanced to the point where any leather vessels would have been relatively rare here, and only less so there, in England.

If you read Oliver Baker's book, 'Black Jacks & Leather Bottles' you get the impression that they were only a cheap/durable expdient--the plain ones anyway--in charity hospitals and school refectories, etc. after c.1700, aside from the ceremonial ones.

[gotgrit]

I am Tom from Gotgrit.com

I want to understand your needs better.

From talking to DW it seems the the Gugolz #55 is better for your application than the harder pitch I have.

Normally the smallest quantity I ship is 1LB which is a 4" diameter and 3" long stick in a cardboard tube.

From reading a bit about how you use it, would ice cube sized chunks be better?

I have shipped out some #64 and some #73 I am interested to know how it works out.

Also if what you have is too soft; Heat it longer and it gets harder; too hard? add a little turpentine and mix (I do not know how this would effect the rest of your process)

Tom

[dw]

Tom,

Welcome. It is very generous of you to offer to make up pitch in ice cube size chunks. This would certainly give folks a chance to try it out and try out the differing hardnesses.

And I was especially interested in your info about heating the pitch to make it harder.

I have a question, though...does "heating" mean just bringing it to a molten state and holding it there to drive off turp or does it mean bringing it to a boil and holding it there (presumably for somewhat less time) to drive off the turpentine?

And conversely, what kinds of temps are needed to add turpentine and have it integrate completely? And what kinds of quatities (of turp) are we talking about? Say, for an ice cube sized chunk?

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[romango]

I am not convinced yet that the #73 is too hard. The wax I made with it seems very good. I will not know for sure until I try inseaming with it next week.

[gotgrit]

The Gugolz number is the Melting point in C.

#73 melts at 164F

Yes heating for long periods will make it harder.

I do have more information about softening it and it is interesting as we have a few factors involved.

You will see one method involves Bees Wax.
Your process already includes Bees Wax, so this may add support for harder pitch being correct since the wax will end of softening it...

So far I have sent out #73 (New Zealand & US) and #55 w/small sample of #64 (going out today)

Please Test out and report back. I want to know what to recommend.

(I got this from the Amateur Telescope Makers list)

------
I've heard that raw linseed oil (not the boiled type that has chemical
additives to for drying purposes) is the recommended approach.
I think turpentine also tends to dry out over time.
----
Mineral Spirits = Works great. Adjustments to temper must be made in
small increments; no boiling off. Not smelly. Cheap, found at most
pharmacies.

Bees Wax = Not so good. The viscosity is not "linear" with temperature
change, small changes in room temperature greatly effect pitch temper.
Marked off my list. CeO acts different with lap. Subjective I know but
for the one time I used it the CeO did not embed in the lap easily.
Found at art stores, used for candle making.

Castor Oil = same as mineral spirits just harder to find (at least for
me). More expensive for unit of measurement than mineral spirits, but
still relatively low cost, found at most pharmacies.

Not on your list but turpentine = forgiving, boils off if you overshoot
temper, if polishing/figuring runs into months pitch temper can change.
Not to bad if you plan on a lap re-pour. Smelly, but I like the smell
(wife does not). It holds special place in my heart ;-), it was my first
tempering agent.
----
> Bees Wax = Not so good. The viscosity is not "linear" with temperature
> change, small changes in room temperature greatly effect pitch temper.
> Marked off my list. CeO acts different with lap. Subjective I know but
> for the one time I used it the CeO did not embed in the lap easily.
> Found at art stores, used for candle making.

I've had just the opposite experience. A small amount of beeswax added
to the pitch and it seems to press better, and laps seem to last
forever. The one change you have to make is to cold/warm press with
*lots* of weight (I cold press with 20-40 pounds for 5-10 minutes for an
8" lap) to get good contact. But that contact winds up being great.
-----

[gotgrit]

Another comment on this by the last comment
(I've had just...)
----
I use and recommend raw linseed oil.

You can add it before or after the pitch has melted, but make sure you
stir it into the pitch well while it is molten. A teaspoon per
kilogram will make a noticeable difference in hardness. Several
teaspoons can turn G73 into G55, so be conservative.

Turpentine doesn't last as long in my experience.

----

But again this is changing Just the pitch, with the other things in your mixture other things are going on, so keep that in mind.

[dw]

Interesting...if I'm not mistaken, linseed oil is the oil from the flax seed...which in turn grows to produce flax and from flax is made ...ta da!! linen yarn!

Might be just the ticket. Linseed oil might nourish and strengthen linen yarn the way true neatsfoot oil nourishes and strengthens leather.

And linseed oil tends to gel rather than evaporate as it ages.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC