In order to make beveled waists,I am going to order a couple of rounded waist irons from Colin Barnsley at Woodware Repetitions (they have begun making 4 types of edge irons); they make them in sizes A (smallest) through G, and I am wondering if anyone can give some guidance as to what size I should order for a typical men's dress shoe, with say a 1/4 inch sole/welt? If you use waist irons, any guidance would be appreciated, whether yours are sized like Barnsley or in the typical 'iron' sizing methodology.
Thanks.
Lance
Tools of the Trade
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lancepryor
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shoestring
Re: Tools of the Trade
Lance,
When your order arrive how about showing us what those waist irons look l look like.
When your order arrive how about showing us what those waist irons look l look like.
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shoestring
Re: Tools of the Trade
Tim,
While reading your book you mention a heel gauge.Now is that something made by a maker and if so how's it done or can one be purchased.
While reading your book you mention a heel gauge.Now is that something made by a maker and if so how's it done or can one be purchased.
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thomd
Re: Tools of the Trade
Does anyone know of a thread or FAQ that covered the basic set of tools required to make shoes. I have a few books coming, so I imagine it will be covered there. Naturally there are probably multiple lists, but I am happy to deal with multiples.
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dw
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Re: Tools of the Trade
Thomas Deloney wrote a poem in the early 17th century that lists all the tools a shoemaker needs...a kit, that at that time, was known as "St. Hugh's Bones" or as a "Saint-Crepin."
It is a very nice poem but written in a form of archaic English that makes it hard to decipher what is being referenced.
In a book entitled Dictionary of Leather-working Tools c.1700-1950 written by R.A. Salaman and originally published by George Allen and Unwin, London, 1986, Salaman deconstructs Deloney's poem and describes the tools that are listed.
Salaman's book, in fact, is probably the most comprehensive list of hand tools made for the bespoke shoemaker ever complied. But he does more than just list them...he goes into detail describing them, including illustrations, and, as far as possible, delineates their use.
The book was reprinted five-ten years ago and can sometimes be found in a paperback version. It is a fascinating book if just for the lore included and I would not want to be without a copy.
Hope that helps...
Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member
It is a very nice poem but written in a form of archaic English that makes it hard to decipher what is being referenced.
In a book entitled Dictionary of Leather-working Tools c.1700-1950 written by R.A. Salaman and originally published by George Allen and Unwin, London, 1986, Salaman deconstructs Deloney's poem and describes the tools that are listed.
Salaman's book, in fact, is probably the most comprehensive list of hand tools made for the bespoke shoemaker ever complied. But he does more than just list them...he goes into detail describing them, including illustrations, and, as far as possible, delineates their use.
The book was reprinted five-ten years ago and can sometimes be found in a paperback version. It is a fascinating book if just for the lore included and I would not want to be without a copy.
Hope that helps...
Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member
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das
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Re: Tools of the Trade
And don't forget Paul Hasluck's useful little book 'Bootmaking & Mending' which illustrates and describes the basic tools. This pops up on eBay as well as Amazon.com for cheap.
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dearbone
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Re: Tools of the Trade
To all,
A friend gave me this knife long ago, he said he bought it when he was in France,i hardly use it,i sharpened it on two sides,the top side(i guess in picture it is the bottom part)cuts leather really good when i put the blade on leather and move my wrist back and forth like the movement of rocking chair and it also skives by pushing away(out) but is this the correct use of this tool? and how about the use or the other side? Any feed back will be appreciated.
Thank you
Nasser
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Re: Tools of the Trade
I've been trying to get one of these for years, not an off the shelf item to be sure. I'm trading shoes for machinery help from my machinist friend. Hickory pick handle with stainless steel fittings. One is sized for men's lasts. The other fits the smaller thimbles on women's lasts.
I need to add the non-skid sole to the bottom end. Any suggestions on what to use?
Georgene
I need to add the non-skid sole to the bottom end. Any suggestions on what to use?
Georgene
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dw
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Re: Tools of the Trade
Georgene,
I use almost any 10-12 iron top lifting or neoprene outsoling material, but I would want something that was firm but not hard. Something with a little "bounce" to create a shock absorber effect when you hammer, ken?
Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member
I use almost any 10-12 iron top lifting or neoprene outsoling material, but I would want something that was firm but not hard. Something with a little "bounce" to create a shock absorber effect when you hammer, ken?
Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member
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chuck_deats
Re: Tools of the Trade
Georgene, Those are nice. Looks like a good trade to me. I use cheap rubber heels on the bottom. Nail them on and trim just like a shoe. Something a little thinner might be better to reduce spring.
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cwsaddler
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Re: Tools of the Trade
Nasser,
The knife you are asking about and have posted a picture of is known as a bridle cutters knife. The point can cut by pulling toward or pushing away. You can also cut with a chopping motion of the big part of the blade. Skiving can be donewith it but then almost any knife can be used for skiving.
Jim K
The knife you are asking about and have posted a picture of is known as a bridle cutters knife. The point can cut by pulling toward or pushing away. You can also cut with a chopping motion of the big part of the blade. Skiving can be donewith it but then almost any knife can be used for skiving.
Jim K
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thomd
Re: Tools of the Trade
Does anyone have a list of the basic tools they would like to share? Cool to hear of some texts, are there any online sources for tool lists also?
Nasser, that looks a lot like one of three Don Carlos knives leathersupply has for sale in modern guise, and made by Frdr Herder, in their case. I make knives and tools for my own use. I would cut with that kind of knife in a number of ways: The rounded mid-section is a bit like a skinner and would be rotated with short wrist strokes using much of the rounded region, or even worked a bit like a pizza cutter. The near straight run could be used to split, saw, or slice like the edge of a short knife. The straight run near the point could be used chisel fashion; like a swivel knife; or pulled for straight cuts. This kind of knife is very versatile for a lot of things except penetrating point work. The beard, and lump on the top indicate it is designed to get your thumb and finger on the blade for short radial work. If it is cutting and tracking you are using it right. (we've emailed recently, Nasser, about visiting your shop etc... I'm another Torontonian)
Nasser, that looks a lot like one of three Don Carlos knives leathersupply has for sale in modern guise, and made by Frdr Herder, in their case. I make knives and tools for my own use. I would cut with that kind of knife in a number of ways: The rounded mid-section is a bit like a skinner and would be rotated with short wrist strokes using much of the rounded region, or even worked a bit like a pizza cutter. The near straight run could be used to split, saw, or slice like the edge of a short knife. The straight run near the point could be used chisel fashion; like a swivel knife; or pulled for straight cuts. This kind of knife is very versatile for a lot of things except penetrating point work. The beard, and lump on the top indicate it is designed to get your thumb and finger on the blade for short radial work. If it is cutting and tracking you are using it right. (we've emailed recently, Nasser, about visiting your shop etc... I'm another Torontonian)
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dearbone
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Re: Tools of the Trade
Jim,Thomas,
Thank you for your tips and suggestions,i will keep them in mind as i learn to use this knife properly.
Thomas,i am sorry i didn't know it was you, as for what kind of tools you need to made shoes, the less tools the better was my teacher thinking, a couple hammers,few knives,lasts,pincers,awls and surly few more items,but i collected as i grow with it and i also inherited tools from three no longer alive shoe makers, two of whom i knew personally,there are some duplicates tools here in the shop and might be useful to you, when you get a chance to visit. also check www.nationalshoe.com for more.
Nasser
Thank you for your tips and suggestions,i will keep them in mind as i learn to use this knife properly.
Thomas,i am sorry i didn't know it was you, as for what kind of tools you need to made shoes, the less tools the better was my teacher thinking, a couple hammers,few knives,lasts,pincers,awls and surly few more items,but i collected as i grow with it and i also inherited tools from three no longer alive shoe makers, two of whom i knew personally,there are some duplicates tools here in the shop and might be useful to you, when you get a chance to visit. also check www.nationalshoe.com for more.
Nasser
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dw
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Re: Tools of the Trade
Thom,
The problem with this question is that if you ask a dozen makers you'll get at least 13 different answers.
The "legend" is that shoes can be made with a knife and fork. Some, like Nasser, and probably many of the West End makers, limit their kits to a few (sometimes just one or each) hammers, pincers, awls, knives, rasps and collices. [and that right there is a "basic" list]
Others, in wicked displays of extravagance and self-indulgence
, add sewing machines, splitters, even (gasp) finishers and curved needle stitchers.
Then there are those whose "tool envy" knows no bounds and you start to see such things as air driven hammers, nail (or staple) guns, pneumatic clickers, bed lasters, steam cabinets and all the accouterments of a small factory. And all of these can rightfully be labled as "tools"...depending on the perspective of the person you're talking to.
Another factor is how much room you have--a lot of this equipment is large and heavy--and I must admit that there are times when I would wish for fewer encumbrances and a more compact and maintenance-free environment.
And finally, almost every maker I know prefers a certain shape of hammer over another shape; or a certain type of pincer, awl haft, etc.. So there's no clear answer. Some of us have more hammer shapes and sizes than we can use in a year (although some come more easily to hand than others). And while educational and cherished for their collectors value, a list of twenty types/shapes of hammer is hardly a "basic tool list."
You really should check out the book I mentioned. Or, as an alternative, ask what tool folks use for a particular job and then compile your own list--which, after only a little time, you will begin modifying for your own purposes.
Of course the most "basic list of tools" is comprised of two eyes, two hands, one thinking, reasoning mind, and a heart that is open to the wonders of creation.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member
The problem with this question is that if you ask a dozen makers you'll get at least 13 different answers.
The "legend" is that shoes can be made with a knife and fork. Some, like Nasser, and probably many of the West End makers, limit their kits to a few (sometimes just one or each) hammers, pincers, awls, knives, rasps and collices. [and that right there is a "basic" list]
Others, in wicked displays of extravagance and self-indulgence
, add sewing machines, splitters, even (gasp) finishers and curved needle stitchers. Then there are those whose "tool envy" knows no bounds and you start to see such things as air driven hammers, nail (or staple) guns, pneumatic clickers, bed lasters, steam cabinets and all the accouterments of a small factory. And all of these can rightfully be labled as "tools"...depending on the perspective of the person you're talking to.
Another factor is how much room you have--a lot of this equipment is large and heavy--and I must admit that there are times when I would wish for fewer encumbrances and a more compact and maintenance-free environment.
And finally, almost every maker I know prefers a certain shape of hammer over another shape; or a certain type of pincer, awl haft, etc.. So there's no clear answer. Some of us have more hammer shapes and sizes than we can use in a year (although some come more easily to hand than others). And while educational and cherished for their collectors value, a list of twenty types/shapes of hammer is hardly a "basic tool list."
You really should check out the book I mentioned. Or, as an alternative, ask what tool folks use for a particular job and then compile your own list--which, after only a little time, you will begin modifying for your own purposes.
Of course the most "basic list of tools" is comprised of two eyes, two hands, one thinking, reasoning mind, and a heart that is open to the wonders of creation.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member
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thomd
Re: Tools of the Trade
Thanks folks, That sounds like the list I need. I have most of that stuff. I "won" several pincer auctions on ebay, of course who really won will take some time to sort out. In addition, my ebay stuff aggregates at a friend's house in NY until there is enough of it to send up in one package so it will be a while before I know. My friend does say encouragingly that they look plier-like, so that's a good start!
I can make any awls or knives that need making. What kind of curved awl should I make as a first pattern? I am interested in shoe scale work mostly. What is the square awl for?
What is a collice?
Tim's book is on it's way. Mush! those Huskies.
I don't have much room, because it is already filled with my metal working and woodworking collection. I fall between the two extremes, DW. I always like to try out the classic, sparse, skill reliant method. Sometimes with the additional strictures of finding home shop workarounds to hard to find or overly expensive items. Then I also want to own the old iron. How big a piece is a Landis 12 anyway, seriously? I know where there is one I can get for carrying it away, not sure whether it needs any work or not.
Nasser, wasn't trying to put you on the spot, just fill you in so you would know who had been talking to you. National is pretty close to me, I need to do a trip there to see if they have any needles for my 29K2.
One of my first tools will have to be some lasts. I am feeling pretty confident about that, with the right instructions, since there isn't much about adding or subtracting from wood I don't understand. Any suggestions about what species is best? I would prefer some local species. I have big chunks of cherry, maple (both of those have become really valuable in recent years), poplar. I might have some mahogany but I feel a guitar pulling at me there.
I can make any awls or knives that need making. What kind of curved awl should I make as a first pattern? I am interested in shoe scale work mostly. What is the square awl for?
What is a collice?
Tim's book is on it's way. Mush! those Huskies.
I don't have much room, because it is already filled with my metal working and woodworking collection. I fall between the two extremes, DW. I always like to try out the classic, sparse, skill reliant method. Sometimes with the additional strictures of finding home shop workarounds to hard to find or overly expensive items. Then I also want to own the old iron. How big a piece is a Landis 12 anyway, seriously? I know where there is one I can get for carrying it away, not sure whether it needs any work or not.
Nasser, wasn't trying to put you on the spot, just fill you in so you would know who had been talking to you. National is pretty close to me, I need to do a trip there to see if they have any needles for my 29K2.
One of my first tools will have to be some lasts. I am feeling pretty confident about that, with the right instructions, since there isn't much about adding or subtracting from wood I don't understand. Any suggestions about what species is best? I would prefer some local species. I have big chunks of cherry, maple (both of those have become really valuable in recent years), poplar. I might have some mahogany but I feel a guitar pulling at me there.
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marcell
Re: Tools of the Trade
I promised that I will make pictures of my stich markers and stitching channel scraper. Here they are:
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marcell
Re: Tools of the Trade
I don't say that this system start to be a bit old... but loudly thinking of it..
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marcell
Re: Tools of the Trade
And a real beauty. I bought a big box of tools in ebay (It was a struggle to win the bid. Did I mention that I hate those last-minute-bidder-guys?) Anyway - I bought the whole packege for one tool, but I found many small surprise in it. Some swedish knife from 1939, some very rare rasps, some misterious one.. and this. It is for measuring the foot, made from wood and just beautiful.
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marcell
Re: Tools of the Trade
No problem.. I have time.. I will win.
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marcell
Re: Tools of the Trade
We call it "stuff". It makes a print, like the fudge wheel - it is the "real" one. 
I used that in my last tutorial to make the welt marked for the stitches.
http://www.thehcc.org/forum/download/file.php?id=1464
I used that in my last tutorial to make the welt marked for the stitches. http://www.thehcc.org/forum/download/file.php?id=1464
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marcell
Re: Tools of the Trade
Nasser - this guy writes "tannery tool" for this knife.
http://www.vatera.hu/timar_szerszam_regi_jelzett_122178365.html
http://www.vatera.hu/timar_szerszam_regi_jelzett_122178365.html
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dearbone
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Re: Tools of the Trade
Marcell,
Thanks for the tutorial,i like that tool that makes fudge wheel marking, also thank you for directing me to the tool site, I thought it was a saddle maker knife, but a tannery knife? i wonder how they use it, the one in your picture looks to be an older version.
Thomas, square awl is the one used for sole stitching by boot and shoe makers.
A collice is an ironing tool, Marcell showed one in his tutorial called Double collice.
But about making awls and lasts,that's an area you don't want to touch,if you have a choice to buy them.
Nasser
Thanks for the tutorial,i like that tool that makes fudge wheel marking, also thank you for directing me to the tool site, I thought it was a saddle maker knife, but a tannery knife? i wonder how they use it, the one in your picture looks to be an older version.
Thomas, square awl is the one used for sole stitching by boot and shoe makers.
A collice is an ironing tool, Marcell showed one in his tutorial called Double collice.
But about making awls and lasts,that's an area you don't want to touch,if you have a choice to buy them.
Nasser
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thomd
Re: Tools of the Trade
Nasser, would you say the same about lasts if you only needed one? For now I just want to make shoes for myself. Of course if I could cheaply find a better starting point that a quarter of maple, that would be good too.