THE GOOD OLD DAYS?

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das
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Re: THE GOOD OLD DAYS?

#151 Post by das »

DW, RTW shoes were being imported by the "ton" (literally) into England, and exported by the "million" (literally) annually as early as the 15th-16thc. The mass-production "horse" was already long "out of the barn" by the time settlements in the American colonies were established, keeping them shod from home way before the 19th century. Even enterprising Virginia "industrialist" shoemakers were getting busted and fined for exporting RTW shoes out of the colony by 1660, though they'd been doing this long before (1630s?)--the die had been cast, or rather handily just transplanted from the Old World into the New World.
deadfisheyes
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Re: THE GOOD OLD DAYS?

#152 Post by deadfisheyes »

Thank you, Das and DW for the insight.
So, Are the "finer details" often only seen on Bespoke works, like small waist, fiddle ridge, small heel, set edge, bevelled waist, etc. because RTW handmade shoes of before were made "rougher" to be faster?
das
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Re: THE GOOD OLD DAYS?

#153 Post by das »

Hans Burgkmair Triumph of the Emperor Maximilian Shoe Seller 1512.jpg
Bespoke shoes have generally speaking tended to be more refined in workmanship and used better materials being a luxury item, however RTW, historically, doesn't equate to "rough" either--that 1st century A.D. fashionable woman's Roman sandal I posted above, by Lucius Abutes Thales, is hardly "crude" or rough workmanship for its day . Shoes had to be made to fit all purses and markets, from low to high-born alike, but yes, the super-fine stuff was predominantly bespoke for the elites. Here's a shoe-seller following the army with two whole poles full of RTW shoes to sell to Emperor Maximilian's soldiers on campaign in 1512.
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nickb1
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Re: THE GOOD OLD DAYS?

#154 Post by nickb1 »

I wasn't sure what the best place was for these, but this seems as good as any. Some more footage from the Pathe archive, on pin pointing
& fine shoemaking.

"pin pointing" soles at 30+ rivets to the inch:
https://www.britishpathe.com/video/pin- ... query/shoe
Could this be the same chap in the footage @dmcharg posted previously? But a lot younger?

Silver brocade shoes for a royal wedding in 1922, the early stages of which are done as turnshoes. Made by ex-servicemen and women.
https://www.britishpathe.com/video/wedd ... query/shoe

Ballet shoes made at Anello and Davide (still in business but mostly bespoke now it seems, and no ballet pumps), also made inside out then reversed:
https://www.britishpathe.com/video/ball ... query/shoe

Finally bespoke shoemaking at Lobb St James St. 1940s:
https://www.britishpathe.com/video/shoe ... query/shoe

The shoes are said to cost around 10 guineas a pair, which the narrator thinks puts them out of reach of the non-famous. According to the Bank of England inflation calculator that is £2500 in today's money, by which metric Lobb bespoke shoes cost 2-3 times more than they used to!
Next up clogmaking. Hoping to prompt @das into posting some pics he mentioned of some interesting clogs unearthed in Derbyshire...

Traditional clogmaking in an unnamed northern town. A substantial concern judging by the "5,000 bales a month" of leather being used ...
https://www.britishpathe.com/video/clogs/query/shoe

Traditional clogmaking Japanese style. Incredible footage of the sawing technique...
https://www.britishpathe.com/video/kiri ... query/shoe

More clogmaking, this time in Scotland. The work seems quick even allowing for the jerky cameras of the day
https://www.britishpathe.com/video/clogs-1/query/shoe
To each foot its own shoe.
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das
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Re: THE GOOD OLD DAYS?

#155 Post by das »

Just a tidbit for posterity here. This morning I was crafting a reply to a British enquirer's email on Hessian/Wellington boots, Rees v. O'Sullivan's accounts, and after doing due diligence I thought it might be interesting to post here:

"We have known since O’Sullivan’s book was discovered that it was a blatant plagiarism of Rees’ 1813 work, with only new copperplate illustrations and a few added bits at the back.

As to the whole Hessian/Wellington mess: the technical difference (eventually) between the two boots was in the cutting pattern—the Hessian had perfectly straight side seams and the back of the leg was blocked-out to shape creating the needed bulge for the calf and reduction at the ankle, whereas the Wellington, similarly, had straight side seams, but eventually developed a 'draft' cutout at the ankle to create the needed reduction there. The Hessian also had a flamboyantly cut top line with a rise in the front and a v-dip at its center, often with a silk tassel added for swank, worn as they were over pantaloons. Wellingtons were usually cut straight at the top line to wear under long trousers. Both were initially whole-cut (no separate vamp).

Current research suggests (see: Shoes by June Swann) that all whole-cut front (blocked, no separate vamp), side-seamed, boots originated in Asia, thence to Slavic Eastern Europe, whence to Germany and France, first as colorful Hussar boots (for Hussar regiments in various European armies who wore Hungarianesque costume), then morphing into the more sober Hessians. The problem with the naming/re-naming is irksome, i.e. in the USA Hessians were called 'Suwarrow' or 'Suvorov'/'Suvoroff'—Hessians (German mercenary troops) having been our enemy in the War for Independence (1776-1783) (AKA The Imperial Civil War). It wouldn’t do at all to try and market a boot here in America thusly named, nor did 'The Iron Duke' association hold much marketing appeal here apparently.

So, in a roundabout way, yes, the Wellington boot did indeed derive from the Hessian boots (a modified and improved Hessian), which in turn derived from the Hussar boots of the 17th century—all being whole-cut and side-seamed. And, as much as they don’t like hearing it in Texas, the US 'Cowboy Boot'—the epitome of all things 'Western'—is actually a very eastern boot as well. 'Old Boney' had a boot style named after him as well—the Napoleon boot (see attached)."

Napoleon Boot
Cruikshank_-_Old_Bumblehead.png
Hussar Boots
Hussar boots.PNG
Wellington boot
wellington-cartoon.jpg Wellington wearing Hessian boots
Wellington wearing Hessian boots
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deadfisheyes
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Re: THE GOOD OLD DAYS?

#156 Post by deadfisheyes »

Were there any historical mentions of "storm welt" or are they purely a product of the industrial times? Welt sits close to the upper edge is the traditional making style of many European countries, but in Germany, Austro-Hungary realm, they are called by many things (like Goiser) but storm welt.
I'm just wondering if storm welt is now being used to retrospectively name the construction (by English speaker) because the dominance of industrial shoemaking now dictates the vernacular; similar to how the Italian calls sole stitching "Rapid a mano" after the rapid machine.
carsten
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Re: THE GOOD OLD DAYS?

#157 Post by carsten »

You might find the following interesting:

On an old house in the town of Ambato (https://www.google.com/maps/search/amba ... uan+Cajas/ @-1.2355457,-78.6252085,16.96z)

in Ecuador hangs a plaque in memory of the shoemaker Don Juan Cajas, who made a pair of seamless boots for the freedom fighter Simon Bolivar (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sim%C3%B3n_Bol%C3%ADvar) and presented them to him on June 30, 1822 (https://dajosbonifaz.wixsite.com/ambato ... o/blank-10).

In the report of the University of Ambato (https://repositorio.uta.edu.ec/bitstrea ... iteNPLDOCS) you will find on page 17 the story about it, according to which Juan Cajas made the seamless boots (sin costura) from the necks of twin Llamningos (a kind of little llama : ). No photos can be found online, but Bolivar apparently admired them a lot and gave the boots to his best friend, the King of France, who, before his death, ordered the boots to be kept in the Science Museum in Paris.

Maybe they are still there?.
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