Thread

[dw]

Thom,

I have found that when it comes to Maine Thread, the cord size is not the same as the number of "cords" or strands. I would think that If you bought unwaxed, you might only need one size--the 11 cord. Why is that? Because with unwaxed you can cut a length and then "unravel" to the size and number of strands/cords that will meet your needs.

Otherwise, I use three strands, sometimes two, for upper stitching and for outsole stitching. I think they label the three strands as "6 cord." Call and make sure of that before you buy, however.

The 11 cord is about right for inseaming on men's shoes and boots--it's actually seven strands if I recall correctly.

Hope that helps...

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[paul]

Help!

I hope somebody can help me. I'm up against it.

I need even just a partial of a 1oz. spool of size C varigated thread in color #100, (that's the rainbow). I'm into a job and don't think I'm going to make it to the end.

The other spool I have turned out to be size D/E. (I thought they were both size C.) I'm done with the back panels of a large 4 row pattern, and am not sure I have enough to finish the front panels. The matching pair for the husband I can do with the D/E.

I would be willing to return the unused portion of a spool as I know it's precious. I just need to get through this pair. And, of course I'm not expecting it for free.

TIA for any help.

Paul

[amuckart]

DW, can you tell me where Randee got the raw 'dew retted' flax from for spinning? I'd be interested in getting my hands on some of that.

Out of curiosity, does she spin on a wheel or with a drop spindle?

Thanks.

[amuckart]

I just bought, cheap, a 1915 singer 45K21 cylinder bed machine which I plan on restoring and using for some heavy non-shoe related work and I'm wanting to run it with linen thread if I can.

I'd also like to run my Junker & Ruh SD28 with linen thread too.

I'm completely and utterly new to the whole world of machine sewing so I'm totally unfamiliar with what types, twists, size and strands of threads I should be looking for and what needle/thread sizes I should try to aim for for various different types of work.

Any help people can offer would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

[roy_najecki]

I've got two boxes of vintage Barbours Shoe Thread, and I'm trying to figure out what the 'H.B.' on the label means. Any ideas? I've seen an 1880's Barbours price list and on one line it lists H B thread, and other sizes are listed below, so there seems to be a distinction. Perhaps the H refers to Hemp, as the box contents label reads "Hemp, No. 15".

I've got a photo to upload, but haven't figured out how to do that.

(Message edited by Roy Najecki on January 18, 2011)

[roy_najecki]

If this works right, here is a picture of the thread box

12726.jpg

[dearbone]

Roy,

Now that you know your picture posting works, Show us one of the thread balls if it is possible,Is the thread bleached(white color) or natural finish? Is it hemp or linen? how old is it? is it from Northern Ireland(Belfast)? Thank you.

Nasser

[roy_najecki]

Hi Nasser,

Here is the second box. The contents label is dated 1952 and says this is Hemp No. 15. The thread (blue label) is off-white from Lisburn, Northern Ireland.

For reference, to the right with the pale green label, is Coats Barbour linen shoe thread which is slightly whiter. This newly made Northern Ireland thread came from Peter Schweiger in London six years ago.

At the bottom is Acadia hemp thread, circa 1946, and also from Northern Ireland. I got this thread on eBay. The Acadia thread is unbleached and darker than either of the Barbour threads.

This makes me wonder if HB means 'Hemp Bleached' or 'Half Bleached'? I suggest the latter because I have linen thread used to sew reenactment clothing that comes in Bleached, Half Bleached (Cream), and Unbleached (Natural).

12728.jpg

[dearbone]

Hi Roy,

A nice collection you got over there,I have few boxes of the ACADIA hemp #10,Good strong thread for inseaming,The #15 hemp above must be even better, I used to buy the Coats linen here from a local supplier,but no more,I guess there was low demand for it and i couldn't find another source for it,I have some linen #8 in Natural color which is similar to the hemp but a little lighter in color,I like to work with the white/bleached linen,please let me know if there is some for sale somewhere. Thanks.

Nasser

[noonan]

Dear Crispinites,
Try calling Paul Freedman at 508-243-6074 or
978-682-3587
He owns Lewis Sales up in Lawrence, MA
and has huge inventory of threads and needles.
Good Luck,
Tim

[dearbone]

Tim,

I spoke to Mr Freedman,i couldn't make him understand what a linen ball of hand sewing/stitching thread looks like,So he asked me to mail him some thread samples,emailing pictures was out of the question,he might have a huge inventory,but runs it by memory without book keeping which reminds me of a shoe findings place here called "Capital Findings",amazing looking place,the kind i will not see again in this city,Owners,The Levine brothers were there for many years and were getting old by 1980s and were the only people that knew where the items were on the shelves without proper inventory,when i asked them one day for some lasts,they send me to the basement and there was a mountain of lasts piled together,it would have taken me days to sort them out,Finally when the old Levine were gone,the family sold the contents to new owner,I know what a good warehouse should look like,I worked for two years in the late 70s in a warehouse of an AM oil company as a cardex clerk,keep watch on 25000 items(parts and everything used to run an oil rig 24/7 and all parts US made and must always keep the stock and know exactly the locations of each item and how many in a massive warehouse with twice a year of hand counting everything inventory including the bolts and nuts and to me that was a good way to run a warehouse with many items.

[roy_najecki]

Nasser,

Below is a copy of the message Al wrote on Jan 28, 2005. I followed up and bought the Coats Barbour thread in the above photo from Peter. Back then a box of 20 balls cost about $230.

"I think Peter Schweiger will gladly sell a "tray" [20-24 balls I think] of the old style soft-spun Barbour's to anybody. Just e-mail him and ask at: peter@schweiger.freeserve.co.uk. "

As for Lewis Sales, I'm in the Lawrence Mass area once in a while. Next time I'll call ahead and perhaps I can visit the shop and see what he has.

[dearbone]

Thank you Roy,

Lewis sales is in Methuen?,MA. 01844, If you get a chance to go there.

Nasser

[dearbone]

Methuen is the mailing address he gave me,so the business location might be in Lawrence as Tim mentioned.

Nasser

[lancepryor]

I am currently in discussion with someone about trying some actual hemp (real hemp, not the unbleached flax referred to as 'hemp') thread for inseaming. For background, here is what he wrote:

"In the 1930's, as a by-product of pressures from the US anti-marijuana campaign, hemp fiber disappeared from western European commerce. Linen was generally substituted for hemp, where hemp had been considered the fiber of choice in some applications. Hemp swells less than linen and is more rot resistant. Ships stores, including hemp, pine products ( pitch, tar etc.) were falling in demand due to iron steam ships becoming prevalent. For example outside of shoemaking, bagpipers had to make do with linen, although they still sell it as "hemp". The linen was soon saturated with paraffin to keep it from swelling in the bagpipe joints in which it was used. This creates other problems. Many places where hemp was better suited were using linen, even if hemp would work better. Much of this knowledge has been lost to craftsmen over the years. You still find linen referred to as hemp, especially where linen was substituted for it due to lack of supplies. I would imagine hemp would be a better fiber for inseaming. The inseam is more likely to get and remain wet when worn outdoors. Of course, pine pitch based hand wax would add to the rot-proofing of the thread. Sailors preserved their lines and rigging with stockholm tar for hundreds of years. We are trying to preserve the last vestiges of this very old technology in our crafts."

When I have tried it out, I will report back.

Nasser, you have found the Acadia to work well? I have found it to be too weak, but I guess I need to check more of my supplies to see if some have retained more strength. I've gone to using 6 strands of the USA Barbours (wet spun) mixed with 3 strands some softer stuff to allow for making good tapered ends.

Lance

[dearbone]

Lance,

Ideally and under better shoe making days,I prefer the bleached linen for both inseaming and sole stitching,but those days might be over to have easy access to this thread at $2.99 a ball from a local supplier, The Acadia thread has some loose plant fibers on it and the strands need to go through the fingers to remove them for better waxing/twisting of the thread,I can't break 6 or 5 strands of it when i tried,whenever i break a 6 strands of the thread is usually when my thread is twisted too tight or pulling a twisted thread through the hole when i lock the stitch.

What is the USA Barbours look like,Does it come in balls of single strands like the thread in the picture Roy posted?

Nasser

[lancepryor]

Nasser:

The stuff I'm referring to comes in 4 ounce amounts in a clear plastic container -- see here:
The Crispin Colloquy: Open Forum: Sources: Thread: Vault 1-500: archive 351-375

I think it is unbleached and wet-spun, as it is a sort of greyish-green color and is quite 'hard.'

There are two problems with it: first, because it is wet spun, trying to untwist it and snap it to make a taper is a problematic exercise. Second, it comes out of the container with frequent 'kinks' -- these can me managed, but it makes plying up a cord a rather time-consuming process, since you need to separately 'unkink' each length of thread before you can ply them all together. It is pretty strong stuff, though. IIRC, Al Saguto had someone test a variety of linen threads, and the stuff I'm referring to was the strongest of the lot.

However, even with this stuff I can snap my inseaming thread, perhaps due to the reasons you cite as opposed to actual shortcomings of the thread itself. I guess that is a topic unto itself.

Lance

[dearbone]

Lance,

Thank you for guiding me to your earlier discussion about the Barbour thread in the plastic jar,It looks stiff,No wonder you can't get a good taper out of it,I like the bleached linen for it's cotton-like softness,for this makes it easier to wax and twist without much resistance,If you can't untwist to see the tens of plies running through it and cut it easy, than i don't think that is a good thread for boot/shoe making,It might be good/intended for something else.

Nasser

[dw]

I don't know if this contributes or not but here are three different threads. the one at the top is a #10 Campbell Irish linen. The one in the middle is a #15 vintage Barbour HB. And the one on the bottom is a #20 wet spun that is nowhere near as as hard as the stuff Rick is talking about (I don't have any of that left, thank goodness). I am not even sure of the origins but I think it is contemporary. I might have gotten it from a close friend of mine.

12736.jpg

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[dearbone]

Finally i found the courage in me to inseam using the recent thread i bought from Maine,first pair using thread other than the one i make with linen but i is getting harder to find good linen for shoes,I bought some 8 cord unwaxed and some six cords waxed which i used on this shoe and to my surprise it did the job and it is strong and if it is as durable as linen, I will be happy.

13431.jpg

Nasser

[dw]

Nasser,

Dang! I never thought we'd convert you. I thought you'd continue to corner the market on vintage linen and no one else would ever get any.

But good on you...and what a testimonial from someone who is as traditional as they get.

I suspect you will find...to your great pleasure...that the Teklon is not only stronger than linen, it is far more durable.

The only real downside to it is the fact that it doesn't hold the wax as well. But consider that one of the main (not the only, to be sure) reasons for the wax was to act as a anti-biotic against the bacteria and other beasties that eat linen for breakfast. With the Teklon you don't have to worry about that.

BTW, and a little off-topic...O. Baltor has (or had) a selection of linen yarns that, when last I talked to them, were very good. IIRC, they even had some that was the equivalent of #15. they also carry a full line of Saphir creams (I'm excited about that). One of the principles there told me that Goetz was all but out of business. So if you want Blau Ring pegs or any of the German hand tools or toe plates, etc., O. Baltor may be the only or last source. And they're in the US which is a plus.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

(Message edited by dw on March 07, 2011)

[dearbone]

DW,

Well you did convert me,Mostly it was your testimonials that led me to try it and i thank you for that,I was afraid i was cheating my customers by using ready made thread but this is not so, and learning new things I consider as a benefit of being on the HCC.

I will look up O. Baltor if they have a site,I still prefer to sue linen for my sole stitching.

I never been to the west coast of either Canada or the US but whenever i meet people from there, they are good and fun to be with,but coming to your neck of the woods will be especial.

Regards
Nasser

(Message edited by dearbone on March 07, 2011)

[donrwalker]

O. Baltor does not have a web site. Their # is 800-622-5867. Dave Baltor is the man I always deal with. I have always been happy with them.

Don

[dearbone]

Don,

Thank you for that,I will give them a call,Being in Canada i found it much easier to import from the US than from the UK.go Figure!! Thanks again.

Nasser

[jon_g]

Nasser,

I think you will find the Maine thread is nice to use, and strong. For an english welt I use the six cord, waxed, and apply my own stitching wax over top, which is especially important at the tapers.

Bad news about Goetz,but glad to hear about O. Baltor, and the Saphir cream.