Pig bristles

Got any great sources for leather? Tools? Machinery? Looking for sources?
Message
Author
User avatar
dw
Seanchaidh
Posts: 5830
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 1997 10:00 am
Full Name: DWFII
Location: Redmond, OR
Has Liked: 204 times
Been Liked: 122 times
Contact:

Re: Pig bristles

#76 Post by dw »

Many people swear by steel bristles or beading needles...and if you like them and they work for you , that's all that is necessary.

But if you're looking for a reason, once you get the hang of using boar's bristles, the bristle will "turn a corner" and feed through an invisible hole far better than steel bristles. Simply because it is flexible.

Having said that I am sure that someone will tell me I just never got the hang of using steel...I use steel bristles on almost every boot or shoe so I suspect that misses the mark. But I will admit that I like and favour boars bristles or nylon bristles and am surely biased towards them.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member
User avatar
athan_chilton
4
4
Posts: 163
Joined: Sun May 17, 2009 7:03 am
Full Name: Athan Chilton
Location: Urbana, IL, USA

Re: Pig bristles

#77 Post by athan_chilton »

I can envision that, and might concur that even the thinnest of flexible bead needles will only flex so much, and once it develops a flex or curve in one direction, it will not easily bend in any other direction, and may break. Eventually I hope to do mostly handsewing on my shoes, and when I get brave enough to try bristles, I will be most interested in how they behave.
danfreeman
3
3
Posts: 130
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 10:00 am
Full Name: Dan Freeman

Re: Pig bristles

#78 Post by danfreeman »

I, for one, have always used the steel bristles on boot and shoe welts, but results are the only thing that matters. Any method or tool which weakens the seam's strength, durability, or appearance, is worse than one which does not. For inseaming (I leave upper closing to superior, or at least more patient, craftsmen), steel produces results as good as those from natural--or nylon--bristles. For me, steel bristles are easier and faster to use, probably because I first learned to sew welts using them. You run the tip between thumbnail and fingertip to curl the end to the shape of the awl, inspecting it before each stitch; following the awl, it enters the hole and emerges through the welt, having barely touched the sides of the hole. An inch is pushed through, it is grasped; it flexes along its length as it is pulled through. This is the biggest difference between steel bristles and "real" bristles: sewing starts with the bristle entering the insole and coming out of the welt, followed by the other bristle entering the welt and being pulled out of the insole, before pulling both threads up--just the opposite of usual welt sewing, and hand sewing in general.
They are harder to find. Gotz made them for years. At first ten, then twenty, finally thirty dollars for the pack of fifty. Then the quality started to go down. The price went down, too, but it was no consolation. The latest bristles come unsoldered at the tips ("split ends&#34Image, and the wire seems much softer. They wouldn't be hard to make, but some effort and expense would be needed to do it right.
I have a small supply, and each is good enough to sew at least three, and usually five or six shoe or boot welts before the solder fails. The current, poor ones? One welt, if I'm lucky, and that's after rejecting a quarter of the pack.

So I'm trying to learn non-metal bristles. Thank you all for your help.
fclasse
3
3
Posts: 95
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:00 am
Full Name: Francis Classe
Location: California
Been Liked: 1 time
Contact:

Re: Pig bristles

#79 Post by fclasse »

D.A. Saguto,

I hope that it isn't too untoward if I ask how your staff normally handles payment to your bristle suppliers; the agent at the Indian Overseas Trading Co. that I've been dealing with, Sundershan (SK) Sood, has requested that I wire transfer the full sum in advance of receipt of goods. If this is standard practice, then that's fine with me, but I thought it would be prudent to check. Many thanks!

Francis
jshepherd
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 9:00 am
Full Name: John Shepherd
Location: Nanaimo, BC, Canada

Re: Pig bristles

#80 Post by jshepherd »

Hi,

First time poster.

Regarding bristles, unless you are a purist and insist on using pig/boar bristles, here is a method using fishing line that works very well:

1. Make a tapered thread as usual. Make sure you have a long, even taper, ending in a single thread. Coat the taper with a wax/pitch ball.
2. Use sandpaper to roughen about 1.5 inches of the end of the nylon bristle.
3. Run the roughened end through a wax/pitch ball
4. Roll the tapered thread, starting at the rough end of the bristle until you get to the smooth section.
5. Reverse direction, rolling the thread back to the end.
6. Split the thread about an inch past the end of the bristle and pass the bristle through the opening.

I've welted many shoes using nylon bristles.

Another benefit is that the nylon bristles can be cut longer then pig bristles, making it easier to grip the bristles during welting.

Regards,

John
User avatar
dw
Seanchaidh
Posts: 5830
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 1997 10:00 am
Full Name: DWFII
Location: Redmond, OR
Has Liked: 204 times
Been Liked: 122 times
Contact:

Re: Pig bristles

#81 Post by dw »

John,


That's a good method and one that many of us use. Used to be that the British made nylon bristles specifically to replace boar's bristles and they came with about half the bristle "crimped" just as if someone had clamped the bristle in the jaws of a pair of lasting pincers. Too bad for the company because that's exactly what many people started doing..only using monofilament.

I cut my nylon bristles about 12" long and rough up about five inches of it. Just because boar's bristles were limited to 8" (at the longest doesn't mean we have to cut nylon bristles that short. I like a good long point on the bristle so I can get a good grip on them.

BTW, some brands of nylon monofilament can be split just like a boar's bristle can. And the taper of the thread rope twisted into the "legs."

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member
fclasse
3
3
Posts: 95
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:00 am
Full Name: Francis Classe
Location: California
Been Liked: 1 time
Contact:

Re: Pig bristles

#82 Post by fclasse »

John,

Indeed, I also use monofilament (well, I stopped about two weeks ago =), and it does work very well. Plus, you can get it in varying thicknesses and stiffnesses as well. I have to admit, though, that there is a certain appeal in sewing historical shoes (which is my primary focus) using the tools, materials and techniques of the time period, which is the main reason for the interest in boar bristles. =)


Francis
fclasse
3
3
Posts: 95
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:00 am
Full Name: Francis Classe
Location: California
Been Liked: 1 time
Contact:

Re: Pig bristles

#83 Post by fclasse »

Hello, all!

I just wanted to let everyone know that the shipment of boar bristles arrived today. I'll be getting in touch with those of you who requested some by the end of the weekend. If, for some reason, I do not, please do email me at francis DOT classe AT gmail DOT com!

My sincere thanks to D.A. Saguto for his generous sharing of sources and information - another great step (tee hee) forward for period shoemaking!


Francis
das
Seanchaidh
Posts: 1626
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2000 9:00 am
Full Name: D.A. Saguto--HCC
Has Liked: 148 times
Been Liked: 126 times

Re: Pig bristles

#84 Post by das »

Francis,

You're most welcome, and best of luck "hairing" your threads.
lancepryor
7
7
Posts: 662
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2004 6:42 am
Full Name: lance pryor
Been Liked: 3 times

Re: Pig bristles

#85 Post by lancepryor »

I just received my bristles from Francis, and I must say I am very happy with them.

I already had some bristles which I had been given by one of the Edward Green hand-closers. These new ones are a bit longer and comparable in substance. I don't even know if Francis has more available, but if anyone is interested in trying them, I would encourage you to contact Francis.
fclasse
3
3
Posts: 95
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:00 am
Full Name: Francis Classe
Location: California
Been Liked: 1 time
Contact:

Re: Pig bristles

#86 Post by fclasse »

I've still got a good amount available for those who would like them - just get in contact with me, and we'll bristle you up!

- Francis
User avatar
dearbone
8
8
Posts: 1032
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2007 12:23 pm
Full Name: Nasser Vies
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Been Liked: 3 times

Re: Pig bristles

#87 Post by dearbone »

Francis,

The mailman just walked in the shop with a box of bristles,What a bundle, Thanks. A lot longer and firmer than i expected and that will work well.

Regards
Nasser
fclasse
3
3
Posts: 95
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:00 am
Full Name: Francis Classe
Location: California
Been Liked: 1 time
Contact:

Re: Pig bristles

#88 Post by fclasse »

Great, glad to hear it!

Francis
fclasse
3
3
Posts: 95
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:00 am
Full Name: Francis Classe
Location: California
Been Liked: 1 time
Contact:

Re: Pig bristles

#89 Post by fclasse »

Just to let everyone know that I'm still playing the role of "bristle dealer" =) If you're keen on some, do get in touch with me.

The power of the bristle compels you!


Francis
lancepryor
7
7
Posts: 662
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2004 6:42 am
Full Name: lance pryor
Been Liked: 3 times

Re: Pig bristles

#90 Post by lancepryor »

I really enjoy sewing with these bristles.

Here is a post I made on this topic:

http://www.thehcc.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=37356#p37356

Francis, thanks for making them available.

Lance
User avatar
dmcharg
5
5
Posts: 258
Joined: Tue May 17, 2011 9:00 am
Full Name: Duncan McHarg
Location: Clunes, Victoria, Australia
Been Liked: 21 times
Contact:

Re: Pig bristles

#91 Post by dmcharg »

"I really enjoy sewing with these bristles"

Likewise myself, The bristles are great. I sort through them as I go and separate out the fine ones for the delicate upper seams. Even these are about 2-3X thicker and 3+ X longer than the bristles I used to use: keep those now for when I attempt 40+spi :^)

Duncan
fclasse
3
3
Posts: 95
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:00 am
Full Name: Francis Classe
Location: California
Been Liked: 1 time
Contact:

Re: Pig bristles

#92 Post by fclasse »

Fantastic - I'm glad that they're working out for people! I have been thrilled with them myself, since they are flexible and finer than fishing line for the same rigidity. The only downside that I can tell is that they can be broken if tugged too hard, but you shouldn't have to force your stitches that hard =)

Francis
kps1ny
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed May 09, 2018 1:43 pm
Full Name: Ken Stuart

Re: Pig bristles

#93 Post by kps1ny »

MV, or anyone...

Would bristles have been used with vamp embroidery as well as making shoes? I've done such embroidery with a metal needle and pliers and it's really hard on the elbows, making so many stitches through the thickness of the leather.

It has just dawned on me that using a bristle (waxed end) instead, pulling embroidery thread, would have made this work so much easier (and this despite using waxed ends when making the shoe)!

For examples of early medieval embroidery on leather shoes, see Swann (2001), _History of Footwear in Norway, Sweden, and Finland_, pages 58-60 including diagrams and color photos.

-Ken
das
Seanchaidh
Posts: 1626
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2000 9:00 am
Full Name: D.A. Saguto--HCC
Has Liked: 148 times
Been Liked: 126 times

Re: Pig bristles

#94 Post by das »

Ken,

No direct refs. to bristles for embroidery, but Marc Carlson's ever-useful website http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-ca ... OEHOME.HTM has this on bristles:

c.1225 - France
Wright, Thomas. A Volume of Vocabularies. sl.:n.p., 1857, Dictionarius of John de Garland (between 1218-1229)
"Pictaciarii viles sunt, qui consuunt sotulares veteres, renovando pictacia, et intercucia, et soleas, et inpedias."
"Allutarii sunt qui faciunt calciamenta de alluta, et prosunt civitati Parisius; qui conservant sibi forumpedias equitibialia et spatulas. Qui alutarii secant cum rasorio vel ansorio corium atramentario denigratum, et consuunt calciamenta cum subula et licino et seta porcina."
"Cobblers are low class, working only with old shoes, renovating with cloutes, welts, soles, and (entanglements?). Cordwainers make shoes of cordwain, and in the city of Paris; they preserve the equality and area of the foot-market.(or Cordwainers are those who make shoes with Cordwain, and are (already?) citizens of Paris; and who maintains his own footforms for smoothing and stretching). Cordwainers cut with razor edges to take care of the leather, blackened with (darkness?), and sew the shoes with a shoemaker's awl, (a twist) and pig's bristles."
c.1295 - Germany
"At the beginning of a good life, however, fear is useful. It is love's gateway. A punch or an awl makes the hole for the thread with which a shoe is sewed... and a bristle is put on the thread to get it through the hole, but when the thread does bind the shoe, the bristle is out. So fear leads love, and when love has bound us to God, fear is done away." "Fragment 43." Meister Eckhart, a Modern Translation. Translated by Raymond B. Blakney. New York: Harper Torchbooks, 1941, pp. 248. Meister Eckhart (1260-1328) makes this reference and further cites Franz Pffeiffer. Deutsche Mystiker des vierzehnten Jahrhunderts, II (Leipzig, 1857), pp.235, 18. Pfieffer quotes Eckhart as saying (line 26-29) "Als diu siule oder âle rûmet dem drâte, daz der drât bindet den schuoch unde nigt daz îsen, und asl diu bürst an dem drâte tout, daz der drât hin durch gêt, unde sô der drât ze samene heftet, sô bürst hie ûsen." (In Modern German, Bürst is not specifically "Bristle", but rather "Brush", Borst is "bristle". However, in Middle High German, Bürst is the neuter gender term for "Bristle" (OED2 entry on Bristle))
15th century
June Swann's description of the Cordwainer's will - which after much digging on my part, I believe refers to "Lystyne lordys verament" (a.1500) - also known as "A shoemaker's testament" .
1598-9
Bristles are not mentioned in either Thomas Dekker's "The Shoemaker's Holiday" (1598) or Thomas Deloney's The Gentle Craft (1599)
1604
"Great Leather Act of 1604"
User avatar
dw
Seanchaidh
Posts: 5830
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 1997 10:00 am
Full Name: DWFII
Location: Redmond, OR
Has Liked: 204 times
Been Liked: 122 times
Contact:

Re: Pig bristles

#95 Post by dw »

das,

But...to the point and maybe I missed the point...were bristle used to sew embroidery thread ornamentation on uppers? Even silk uppers? I suspect "yes."
DWFII--HCC Member
Instagram
Without "good" there is no "better," without "better," no "best."
And without the recognition that there is a hierarchy of excellence in all things, nothing rises above the level of mundane.
das
Seanchaidh
Posts: 1626
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2000 9:00 am
Full Name: D.A. Saguto--HCC
Has Liked: 148 times
Been Liked: 126 times

Re: Pig bristles

#96 Post by das »

Above I posted the only refs. (Marc's) we have to the Medieval use of bristles for sewing shoes. No, no direct mention of shoe-embroidery per se. Lack of evidence is not evidence "against", it's just a lack of evidence.
Post Reply