Al:

I've always seen the half-cast knot done on the insole side of the stitch, including (IIRC) in DW's video of the 'hand jive.' So, is that approach in fact contrary to tradition? Or am I missing something when folks are putting a half-twist on the sole side of the stitch before putting the bristle through the resulting opening? Further, when the half-cast knot is done on the welt side, is this also done by putting a half twist on the thread, or is it done some other way?

By the way, your book is a obviously a result of tremendous effort on your part. In addition to my copy, I sent a copy to T. Moore, so I look forward to comparing notes with him about it someday.

Congratulations on getting it done.

Lance

Master Saguto,

Thanks for the good news of future plans - like Brett, I, too, will stay hungry for your forthcoming publications!


Brett,

Along with a bit of salt (needed to better incorporate commentary from other period cordwainers from the annotations), I only had a Cabernet on the plane over, but it paired well with Garsault. A Sangiovese might go better. =)


Francis

Lance,

Very interesting. Perhaps Garsault was not confused--as I said it's hard to say. I believe Rees, Deviln and my mentor advocated making the half-cast on the welt side as it puts more thread in the work on that side of the seam. Only having been at this 37 years, I haven't lived long enough to be familiar with all "tradition--I just commune with the dead guys, can't interview them posthumously I'm afraid. If they didn't bother to write it down, I'm lost

Thanks for the congratulations--it was a big project that seemed to never end, and times were when I wondered if I had bitten off more than I could chew. BTW, and Francis should note, while the ms. was in final edit I did trace a possible Polish version of 'Art du Cordonnier' from the 1770s, but my editors screamed when I told them that. 'Art of the Shoemaker' is hardly the end of the story, "case closed".... for many I hope it is the beginning. It might seem too grandiose an analogy, but just as the writings of the Early Church Fathers, dry and often thorny to read, are foundational to understanding the early Church, so too these early technical treatises combine with what we know from artifacts, art-history, and oral traditions about our early trade.Having access to reliable translations of them--indeed of all our early trades and manufactures--might go a long way, and for future generations, towards remedying our "cultural amnesia" about who we are, where we've been, and somewhat towards why we are the ways we are today.

Lance, Al,

In this (and a few other things) I wasn't taught the "traditional" way, I'm afraid. Or to put it another way, it was a different tradition.

I am not sure that what I do is considered a "half twist," in any case, as I manipulate both sides of the stitch. What I...my "tradition"...is striving for is a lock in the center of the stitch...deep in the holdfast. Neither on one side nor the other.

But I was taught to always pull harder with the right hand than with the left. This to draw the welt into the feather. I would assume that if one was left handed one might be forced to reverse that sequence.

Who knows?


Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

PS...I know this discussion is about Garsault's /Saguto's Art of the Shoemaker, and I really don't want to hijack the thread. But apropos to the question that has arisen, I noticed in Thornton that he recommends, and illustrates, the "overcast" or "half-twist" being done on the insole side of the welt...again, with more pressure brought to bear with the right hand.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

For those members across the pond, Art of the Shoemaker may be found at

eurospanbookstore.com

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

It is also available from Amazon sites for the UK, Germany, Spain, Austria, and France.

Lance

Brother Crispins,

Great discussion. This is where being shoemakers ourselves gives us the ability to take a dry old French technical manual and make it into something intriguing and fun to read,...much, I'm sure, to the chagrin of our loved ones, who cannot understand why we consider this engaging reading material for taking to the beach. Perhaps we can sell T-shirts and bumper-stickers at the next Cordwainers' Gathering: "It's a Crispin thing - you just wouldn't understand."

I just want to throw one last something into this "thread" on hard-drawing with hand leathers, &c.: Perhaps, as has already been intimated, Garsault or his interviewer saw one on a myriad of possibilities. It might be imagined that the shop just down the block from where the interview was performed had a completely different take on it.

I was originally taught (not by R.A.S.L. Saguto, mind you) to do a half cast on BOTH sides and pull them with equal force. I am likewise informed (almost daily,...by my colleagues here in the shop) that I have a singular way of putting the bristle on a thread. I tried to blame this on one of them, but he strictly disavows teaching this to me during a visit I made here in 2002. Nevertheless, I never have bristles come off, and I believe that is the object of the technique.

As my father used to tell me, there are three ways for a craftsman to do things - the bad way, the good way, and the best way. It would be interesting to learn if the other trades Garsault documented (viz., carpentry, metal trades, textile trades, &c.) find the techniques he recorded to differ from what they were taught.

Well,...I'm off to more "light reading" of the dead guys. Bonjour, and I remain,

YHS, &c.,
+Bt.

N.B. Francis,...I thought a nice Pinot would complement the "earthiness" of such a well-aged work. DW,...have you ever tried "widdershins" on any old ladies? I'll bet that would make them swoon.

Brett, I was considering the same thing - there are a variety of ways to perform the same task, along with a variety of tools (the annotations in AdC make this very clear as well). I think it is a reasonable to make an assumption that different cordwainers had different "preferences" in terms of coad, technique, etc., perhaps because they learned from a specific tradition or discovered a particular technique that worked well for them. These different traditions in craftsmanship are akin to a particular artist's style - as long as they do not impact the end product, it is not a matter of "better," but rather "better for me." =)

Mmm...a Pinot sounds lovely about now (and I resist the urge to bring up the topic of drinking on the job - last time that happened, I almost forgot to nail the insoles on before lasting the shoe =)

- Francis

Dear Francis,

Thanks for backing my theory. I think there's a lot in our study of "the dead guys" that can be explained this way.

As for the mixing of wine and shoemaking, I find it relaxing - like listing to Vivaldi - and I have often thought my work went faster with one or two glasses. If the bottom of the bottle is easily seen by halfway through the day, though, perhaps that WOULD have the result you described,...which incidentally, I have done once whilst drinking nothing stronger than Earl Grey tea!

On to more reading...

I remain,

Yr. Srvnt., &c.,
+Bt.