I do NOT want to be the one to clean that bucket!!

Bruce

Alasdair,

I wonder if I can get enough air flow if the vacuum has to pull the air “through” the water. Right now the problem seems to be that to much of the heavier dust drops down without getting sucked up. Maybe if the bucket gets substituted for a plastic storage bin, something in the 25 Gallon range with the pipe coming from the dust source corrugated along the bottom of the bin to make the air flow less obstructed. With a heavy enough suction unit on the other side it may just work.

I was thinking about getting a woodworkers vacuum unit. The type with the barrel on the bottom and the large dust bag up top. I'm not all that impressed with the suction on my Jackmaster either. Maybe I can hook that one up to it as well, it will also give the Jackmaster a little more power as I would loose the belt driving the vacuum system. Has anyone ever done something like that? Any chance it would work? Does anyone have any ideas to keep the noise the vacuum units make down to a reasonable level?

For now I'm finishing a separate small room in my shop with all my grinders. With a storm window and storm door I hope to keep the dust in that room. I also bought an air cleaning unit used by woodworkers. We'll see how it will work out.

Bruce, with my shop vac I can suck up water, even if it has a questionable content and pump it out the other end so I'm not to worried about the cleaning. I rather clean out a bucket of muddy dust than get it in my lungs.

Seems like we are a little of topic here, maybe it should be moved to a more appropriate place.

Rob

Here's a last modification question (kind of playing off Rick's observation regarding the way a shoe looks on the boot last vs. how it looks on the foot):

If the general consensus is that a boot last is not suitable for making shoes (and I would ordinarily agree); and the further assumption is that, at least partially, the reason it is not suitable is that the cone/instep is "squeezed" upward on a boot last as compared to a shoe last...then a question arises:

If you need to increase the instep girth on a shoe last, and the bottom is already close to the footprint in size and shape, where do you place the build-up?

Thinking about this in some depth, I would think that if you place the build-up over the cone you will alter the long heel measurment, as well as begin to re-create the shape of a boot last. So, why is the higher cone of a boot last a probblem if all other measurements are correct?

So where's the build-up go?

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

DW

The last modification goes where it is needed is the short answer. Up the cone if the instep measurement dictates. It is fitted up there because of the foot, not the last.

Long heel lines are not used for shoemaking, just boots.

To my mind your boot last sweeps up very steeply in a place that is unusual in a shoe last. That shape would be likely for someone with a problem, not a normal foot.

Tim

Tim,

Oh yes, I understand that. I've said much the same thing myself. But what I think you object to on my boot last (correct me if I'm wrong) is the pronounced cone. Yet, if we're going from a one inch heel last to an higher heel last, say, one and a quarter, wouldn't you expect the cone to be pushed up as the arch is forced upward?

I guess what I'm getting at is...if the measurements are right, and the footprint/bottom paper is right, how does a shoe last differ from a boot last other than maybe...maybe...being too thick at the top of the heel and along what will be the top line of the shoe? Oh, and maybe having a less pronounced curve at the back of the heel.

Thinking about it, if the foot dictates the measurments and the shape of the last and my boot last fits me to a T, how can it be wrong?

That's what I'm trying to figure out...because when I get my shoe last and I have to build it up--significantly (I've probably got an AA heel and a "D" or "E" forepart)--I want to know where to put the build-ups so that it doesn't end up looking like my boot last.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

DW,

I have been trying to sort this out and think that the sweep up the cone probably starts after the instep measurement position. This would mean that any part of the shoe that reaches past this point would be affected by the increase in the long heel line. I could be wrong. Rob, help me out here.

The back of the boot last is more often straighter than the shoe last and if the foot does not sit as snug in there as your foot does, then the topline could gape and the foot slip up and down.

\image

In this photo (you've got me out there taking photos again) the boot last shows clearly the difference in back shapes between the boot and shoe last. The boot last in question was for a 2" heel I think, and was made for me in England. It doesn't have the upswept cone like yours do, but still works well. I made my own boots on it.

The shoe last has a lower cone and more curve in the back too, as well as being a bit thinner. If I needed more room in the instep I would put a shover down the front to the joint and tapering off at the sides. This would push up the cone a bit but not as much as your boot lasts would at the top.

If your last fits you then that is fine, but if you want to make shoes for someone else then you may come unstuck.

I have a wide forepart to my feet (probably from going barefoot most of my life) and have built this last to fit me, which sounds like your last will look. I don't have the problem of the AA heel but that is not a problem. The cone of the shoe last will not look like your boot last anyway, the slope is totally different.

Tim

Try this, this image formatting is tricky.

Tim,

Well, that's certainly helpful although I would say that my boot lasts--even without any mods--doesn't look at all like your boot last. The heel curve on mine...right out of the box...is almost identical to the heel curve on your shoe last. And by the looks of it, I think the comb (along the sides of the heel) is at least as narrow as on your shoe last.

Any excessive uplift in the cone area of my last is due to the way my feet are. I put the build ups on top of the cone because the footprint and tracing indicated that no extra substance was needed or wanted along the sides of the last. Maybe some of that could have been shifted downward to somewhere between the top of the cone and the side of the last.

That's what I'm trying to do in a new set of modifications to this last. I'll take a couple of photos when I'm done so you can compare my boot last with yours. Should be sometime today or tomorrow.


Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

Tim,

...following up on my previous post...

One thing I have noticed on your shoe last is that the heel "comb" is higher than my boot lasts. I think that's good but it distorts the perspective and makes the cone look higher.

Here's a few shots of an un modified inch and a quarter last. the second profile shot has been retoughed to mke it look like it has a higher backpart. Does it change the way you see this model?

Notice the heel curve and the width of the backpart. Isn't this more like a shoe last than you were expecting?








Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

And here's a couple of shots of my personal last--modified and modified again many times over the years. It's essentially the same model as above--inch and a quarter heel height.





What do you think? Are these anywhere near suitable for making shoes?

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

DW

I think my shoe lasts are a bit thinner in the heel than yours but maybe not by much, the high cone is a problem for me when considering shoes on your last. It will be interesting to compare these with your shoe last when it comes. And yes, I am surprised that the curve at the back is so much like the shoe last.

Comparing the back of my last with yours, I think mine may be a bit thinner with more shape in the swell towards the bottom. Measuring across the top at the back, my last is about 15mm across, but it looks a bit more shaped than yours below that. Not much different though.

Tim

Thanks, Tim...

For all your help and advice.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

No worries, if you can use me it helps me feel useful. I enjoy the teaching process and don't get that now that I no longer make.

tim

Tim,

I know exactly how you feel. But since I ventured into unknown regions (shoemaking) I can't help people much. But maybe I can be useful by making you feel useful

So, here's another question...how do you anchor the tongue in a one piece shoe?

And for my next question...why is the sky blue?

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

DW,

Your question about why the sky is blue made me think of my son.
When he was in elementary school, at the first of the year his teachers just loved his interest. He would say, "I just want to know one more thing..."
By the middle of the year their eyes would roll and they would feel exausted at his persistence.
Finally his 5th grade teacher straightened him out and explained how it can be for him. To this day he still speaks highly of her. She appreciated his nature.

Paul

DW

It seems to me that a one piece shoe would have to include the tongue in the patterns because otherwise it becomes a two piece shoe.

You would need to make your tongue like the one for an oxford and it has to be stitched on, generally using a triangle shaped stitching pattern. Have a look at a pair of joggers to get the idea.

And the sky is blue, just coz and also it's a nice colour.

Tim

Dear friends, I am a shoe maker in Toronto Canada. I am looking for some sole & insole leather, for welted shoes.If you know a suppliar ,please let me know.Thank you. Nasser

In adjusting a last for myself, I can use the pedograph imprint to adjust the heel width at the feather line. After making a fitter's model I found that the heel area was still too wide, not at the bottom, but further up the heel.

This is easy enough to further adjust but I am wondering how to avoid this in the first place. In other words, how does one measure or take into account the heel girth?

Another question: A couple of times I have made a shoe or fitter's model where the front of the shoe seems to slap the floor, when walking, rather than roll through the tread line. What would cause this to happen?

Rick,
Use a calipher wing divider and a measure the heel standing about one half inch above and at the widest medial/lateral aspect approx. adjacent to the heel apex.Then match your last.Hope that helps. Fred

Hey, if you don't have one of those fancy pedograph impression trays, a bottle of 3 buck chuck does a decent job!

Rick,

Can you explain all what's pictured and what is 3 buck chuck.

Ed

Rick,

That's a neat idea. What sort of paper are you using? Does the wine bleed much and spread the outline?

Cheers.

3 buck chuck is Charles Shaw cheap wine. Any red wine or grape juice will do.

I step in the wine tray and shake my foot off for 30 seconds before placing on standard copy paper. I'm sure a high cotton paper would work even better. I couldn't detect any bleeding at all.

Ed,
I can't believe that two days in a row I can contribute something here. "Three buck Chuck" is a value priced wine sold at Trader Joe's stores. As the crow flies, right now I am about 5 miles from the Bronco Winery, who produces these affordable varietals also known as Charles Shaw. Inflation must have hit however, it used to be referred to as "two buck Chuck".

Rick
Cool Trick I always amazed at the resourcefulness of shoemakers .Totally cool.
you all have a great & safe New Year
Larry
Walrus Shoe & Leather Co.
H.C.C Member