Hand Wax / Coad

[lancepryor]

Joel:

I had this same challenge when I started doing some inseaming. It might be your coad, or it might be the way you are wrapping your thread. I found that you need the 'wraps' at the beginning of the thread to be very close together -- basically touching one another-- and hence almost at a right angle to the mono for some distance before you start making the wrap more along the length of the mono (if that makes sense?).

I also do a split end, following DW's earlier postings for how to wrap and counter-wrap the two legs of the mono.

When I was cutting my mono, what I did was use a sharp shoemaking knife to nick near the end of the mono or actually split the very end of the mono (with the mono still on the spool), then try to grab the nick or split and pull it, which will usually allow the mono to split. Then, I would pull the split til it was say 6 or 8" long, and finally I would go up another 8" or so and cut the mono off the rest of the spool. This was very efficient, for if I messed up the nick or it didn't split, I would merely cut of the very end of the mono and try again. If you cut your mono into lengths first and then have a hard time getting the splits started, you end up throwing away lots of the already-cut lengths. The way I did it, it seems both faster and less wasteful, since you aren't throwing away 20" pieces of mono every time you have difficulty getting the split started.

[dw]

Joel,

No, I've always found that if it is at all tacky after it has been sitting for a while, it is too soft.

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[j1a2g3]

DW
How do you make soft handwax harder? I'm at a lost as to which ingredients to add to the coad.

Could adding too much oil to the mix have caused the wax not to setup and harden when it cooled. It's the only thing I can think that would have prevented the coad from harding when it cooled.

Joel

[dw]

Joel,

Too much oil or beeswax would make it too soft. Re-cook it and add more rosin...omit anymore oil or beeswax.

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[big_larry]

If I may,

I used 3 sources to purchase rosin. One was a little music shop where they had little bricks for violin players to rosin up their bow. The second was a chemical outlet and the third was a cowboy shop. The bull riders use it to rosin up their bull rigging so it doesn't slip. I checked with a builders supply and the brick layers also use a rosin bag to help hold on to the bricks and blocks. I am most satisfied with the cowboy bull riggin' rosin. I will not give the price but it was very reasonable.

I use bees wax and a little needsfoot oil to thin it. So far My wife lets me melt it on the kitchen stove. You don't know whether it is the right amount of stickey until it cools down. After getting the sticky just right, I apply it to the inside of a leather glove and pull the thread through the glove. I add a little during the sewing process as needed.

At the risk of being the NEW GUY KNOW IT ALL I share this with humble intent that if it helps great, but if this is not helpful, please be patient and have mercy on the simple minded.

I thank you for the sharing.

Your friend, Larry Peterson

[corvin]

Has anyone used Gugolz Polishing Pitch that's used for polishing telescope lenses? It comes in four levels of hardness from very soft to hard - what sort of hardness would be preferable for using as a component in hand wax?

Another source of rosin (in a powder form) is from an art supply store - it's used in lithography.

Thanks,
Craig Corvin

(Message edited by corvin on March 02, 2007)

[dw]

Craig,

Never used it but I would think almost any grade would be OK. From what I've been told the major difference between hard and soft is the amount of residual turpentine.

Seems like the turp would cook off during the melting process. If I had a choice, however, I'd go for the hard...you can always temper that brittleness with more beeswax or oil.

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[corvin]

4872.jpg

I made two batches of hand wax this morning, one of the pine pitch variety and the other of the blond wax flavor.

Not sure if I got the end product right, but both have very similar feels - hard but start feeling a little tacky when held for a few seconds. Does that sound about right? If I were to hit a chuck with a hammer, should it shatter or dent?

Should there be any concern about small water pockets in the hand wax caused by the "water bucket dump" procedure after the hand wax has been cooked up?

Besides being a whole lot of fun, what's the purpose of the "taffy pull" procedure?

What sort of shelf life does hand wax have? How about the components? I've got enough hand wax raw materials to make pounds of the stuff - anyone want to place an order?!

Thanks,
Craig Corvin

[dw]

Craig,

Looks good. Part of the reason to 'taffy pull" is to eliminate the water globules.

If you hit it with a hammer...fast and hard...it should probably shatter.

Shelf life? Kept wrapped up and away from oxygen...probably indefinate. The comp[onents will certainly last a lifetime...at least mine, which are going on thirty some years, seem to be unchanged.

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[das]

Craig,

The "taffy pull" phase is intended to bleach-out the pitch to the bronze color desired, as well as elliminate air-pockets. It changes the oiverall texture of the wax too, and is a must-do step IMO.
It also tests the consistency, by seeing if the mixture will support being drawn out into a long string without snapping off (too brittle).

Have fun.

[dw]

Al,

So...there must be a time limit to taffy-pulling? In my experience, I can taffy pull pretty well--achieving bronze and long strings--for a limited time but beyond a certain point the wax just gets too cool, I guess, and then the strings will break especially if they are pulled too thin and too long.

Also, in my experience, the bronze colour doesn't last much beyond the initial taffy-pull and make up stage. How does that square with your recipes?

Allow me to ask both of Craig's questions again...how long will a well made wax last? Retaining consistency and malleability?

Should it shatter if hit with a hammer?

I draw from my stash of Vesta Pech mixing with a substantial amount (but less than 50%) of shop-made and it seems to work pretty good but it does tend to oxidize after a while and I usually have to coat the waxed ends with either cod oil or beeswax if I'm not going to use them right away.

Having said all that, after nearly 35 years, I can't say that making wax is my forte. Of course, I'm using dacron thread so the wax isn't as critical as it is for your usages, so maybe I've gotten a little lazy or lackadaisical about it.

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[das]

DW,

How long to taffy-pull? That is the question

Depending on ambient air temp and your wax mix, maybe 3-5 minutes, or until it gets really cool/brittle.

Mine usually stays bronze for the life of the ball, but the way we use them, a ball only lasts a month. If you lay it by for months, or years, it does seem to get a little more brittle, but re-melting and adding a dash of beeswax or tallow/oil brings it right back.

So much of this depends on the pitch you use, all bets are off on "rules" except getting a consistency that won't flake off the thread while sewing, but which dosen't melt and stick to everything at room/hand-tempuarture. I aim for the thread to feel like it's coated with semi-dry varnish--tacky, but not sticky.

[corvin]

Thank you both for your learned hand wax answers to my questions. Oh, but I have more!

Could we, by "taffy pulling" the wax, be breaking down the size of the crystalline structure of the pitch and pine? Preventing it from forming into larger crystals?

Is the change in color due to light reflecting off the smaller sized crystals?

I feel like a little kid repeatedly asking "but why..."

Thanks,
Craig Corvin

(Message edited by corvin on March 15, 2007)

(Message edited by corvin on March 15, 2007)

[dw]

Al,

Thanks for the answer. It makes sense that different pitches--hard, soft, in-between, for instance--would affect the final outcome.

As I say, making up handwax isn't my best thing but as long as I use my waxed ends right away, I'm OK, but if I don't, I'll get flaking. In my defense, I will say I never had that happen when I was using linen but Dacron just doesn't hold the wax like the natural fibre. [img]http://www.thehcc.org/forum/images/old_smilies/sad.gif"%20ALT="sad[/img]

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[j1a2g3]

Craig

I don't know about crytals breaking down.

I do know that when pulling taffy you incoporate air into the product and there by lighten it's color. Overtime the air will escape and the color will darken. I presume that is what will happen to the handwax as will.

Joel

[corvin]

How many pulls through a good hand wax should it take to cover the thread sufficiently?

Thanks,
Craig Corvin

[dw]

Craig,

If you are using linen...it really isn't an issue of coverage but of "saturation." I used to separate ten stands of yarn into bundles of three, three and four and wax each of these bundles separately before twisting them together and burnishing the whole to make the wax cohere and perhaps penetrate the fibers even better..

The benefits of hand wax on linen are severalfold...one it binds the linen yarn into a coherent whole-- "united we stand, divided we fall...?" Second, it creates an antibacterial moisture barrier that insures a strong inseam for years to come. If the wax has not penetrated the thread sufficiently to block the action of moisture and/or bacteria, the thread will fail before its time.

And, of course, the wax creates a "lock" in the stitch that prevents the inseam from loosening should one or more stitches fail.

With dacron thread, if your wax is tacky enough to adhere to the thread a good quantity on the thread serves the same "binding together" principle as on linen.

But with Dacron the chances are that until you get into a steady rythmn of inseaming--thus keeping the wax somewhat warm and pliable--the wax will tend to flake off. This does no one any good...you lose the tackiness that keeps the stitches from slipping, at the very least. So be prepared to refresh the wax as you are inseaming. In fact, I have observed threads being "refreshed" even when the maker was using linen.

The bottom line is that there are no rules for how many passes through the wax is proper. More is probably better in this regard and the best we can say is that "sufficient" is the goal.

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still off on a walkabout...

[das]

In addition to what DW adds above, one of the essentials of wax is it sticks the bristles on good and solid. If you go to the John F. Rees link, and read what he has to say, you are to re-wax the thread every so often to keep it "nearly in the condition it was when newly made...", or something like that. I re-wax my inseaming thread, oh, maybe about every third of the way around the bottom. As the thread passes athwart through the holes, there is a constant draining of wax the whole length--this is normal. But this wax must be re-placed as you go.

[amuckart]

Hi all,

My primary focus in shoemaking relates to medieval reenactment where, in my area at least, the concept of using waxed ends and bristles isn't widely known.

I'm trying to remedy that as well as spread what little knowledge I have by writing things down in a blog. It consists as much of chronicles of my failures as it does useful instructions, but I figure if people can learn from my mistakes it might save them making the same ones themselves

Recently I took photos while I made up a batch of wax and documented the process step-by-step as I understand it on my blog at http://wherearetheelves.blogspot.com/2007/06/making-code.html I'm working on photo-documenting the process of building thread and attaching bristles too.

If any of you have time I'd be interested to know how this compares to the way you do it. When I get the ratios right, and don't make up too much in one go, the result works well for me.

[marc]

Hey Alasdair, great pictures.

I think the thing to remember here is that we don't actually *know* what they were using - all we have are a bunch of assumptions, and reasonable conclusions (for example, the fact that it is very difficult to use bristles with just beeswax, so there must be some rosin in the mix someplace; and of course the assumption that they were all doing the same thing in the first place, which may have been true, but we don't know). You did a good job of making that distinction.

The way *I* do it, when working with wax and resin, is to just melt the wax and resin together, mix weel and pour into a mold. Perhaps a drop of oil if it's too hard (but not much more than that, since a puddel of green goo isn't that useful). It's not nearly as pretty as the balls you came up with though.

[j1a2g3]

DW,

I noticed in your video that the hand wax you use is black. Was it that color from the start or does it darkens over time?

If it's black from the beginning, what makes it that color?

Thanks Joel

[dw]

Joel,

I have a lifetime supply (if I am very careful) of VestaPech. It is a hand wax that was made in East Germany before the wall fell and was carried by Goetz. When the wall fell, shortly thereafter the company folded. I bought everything I could get my hands on. It is, supposedly all natural.

The old Holt brand wax was also black (still available, I think). And I have made hand wax with pitch I obtained from the Rausch naval yards in new Orleans (since Katrina they have also closed their doors. When I made it, it started out bronze...after vigorous pulling...but aged to black. I think it was the pitch.

Traditionally, there was a black wax (winter) and a white wax (summer). Vesta Pech also had a white summer wax...I still have some of that, as well.

To tell the truth, I've never seen a hand wax made with the traditional formula (using pitch as one of the ingredients) that wasn't black. So it must be the pitch, even if it's the much bally-hoo'd "burgundy pitch."

I have made hand wax (dare I say "coad?" ) using just rosin and beeswax and some oil or lanolin. It is always white or ivory. And in a pinch, you can use just pure hot melt stitcher wax...sometimes known as "Atom Wax" (also white). With Dacron thread, the formula is not as critical, in my opinion, as long as you wind up wiuth something that has some tack. In fact, "tack"--the tendency to stick to itself--is perhaps more important with dacron (which is slippery) than it is with linen. But the anti-biotic properties of the pitch ...which were so important to the linen...are not as important when using dacron.

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(Message edited by dw on July 09, 2007)

[amuckart]

Hi DW,

What is special about "burgundy pitch"? Is it the best stuff to use?

Thanks.

[das]

Alistair,

If you go back through the archives on this topic, you'll find an early French 18thc cite I posted that extolled "Burgundy" pitch, I recall, because
it could be used alone with only rosin added for firmness--no oil/fat needed. These latter ingredients soften the wax, but can also undermine its tenacious quality if used too liberally. I think the desirability behind Burgundy pitch was that getting a pitch-rosin combo that worked well with no oil/fat.

As far as I know "winter" and "summer" wax were just variations of the same pitch-rosin wax with more or less oil/fat to temper it for the season..
"White" wax, was literally white, and used for the fine visible stitching on ladies' heel-covers, and uppers closing. The ingredients (whitest beeswax,
rosin, and lead oxide) were pounded or mashed together (in a leather bundle with a hammer), rather than melted to blend, hence it's other name "mashen", "masheen", or "machine".

And so far we've found nobody to supply pine pitch since Rauch went out of business. Some pitch we've gotten from Sweden has been promising, but it only comes in 50 lb drums and costs a bomb...and it's a wee bit too soft and tar-like if truth be told, but it sure smells good. With all these pine-pitch derivative products on the market, e.g. Montana Pitch-blend, etc., somebody has got to have a source for good old domestic pine pitch from turpentine distillation. Having said that, most of our turpentine is now imported (from China *sigh*), and supposedly pressed out of the wood pulp, rather than cooked and distilled like the old days. Any input or leads would be greatly appreciated here gang.

[dw]

Al,

I am sure that it was you who first drew the distinction for me regarding "summer" versus "winter" wax although I do not recall the mention of "masheen" in those early conversations (I've seen your posts and learned since then). But I must have asked in the context of the white Vesta Pech. I am relatively sure that the white Vesta Pech does not have lead oxide in it. And it is not truely white either but more of an ivory colour.


I don't know what the ingredients of the white Vesta Pech) are, but Ralph Burkhardt (used to work for Goetz) assured me that both the black and white were all natural.

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