Great Leather!

[Michael Anthony]

Al, Bill, and All,

First Al: No problem, your leather is reserved, talk to you tomorrow.

Next Bill: Thank you for helping me to offload some of this leather, which by the way, is stacked on the floor in the entrance way to my shop. Makes the place smell great.

Finally to All: This leather is moving much quicker than I had ever expected. Current inventory left in stock:

7 Dozen pair outsoles

1 shoulder 2.0 - 2.4 mm

6 shoulders 4.0 + mm

Also included in this last shipment, which is not available to the boot and shoemaking trade, were twenty 4.0 - 4.5 mm soling bends. These bends were prepared special for a craftsman that makes "knee pucks" for motorcycle road racers. These "knee pucks" are attached to the racers leather jumpsuit and are used to protect their knees when they drag them on the pavement at 140+ MPH. This craftsman stacks the Rendenbach leather to approximately 1 inch thick and inlays them with the race team's logo or rider number. Out of all of the leather that this craftsman has used, he has had the best results for wear and durability, using the Rendenbach leather. I think this in itself, is a great testament to the quality of this leather.

One last note as a reminder that the tannery representative and myself will be exhibiting at the Wichita Falls Roudup. The tannery will offer show specials on various types of leather and will donate a soling bend to the boot contest. Rendenbach will also give a short powerpoint presentation and anyone that attends will receive a free sample pair of soles. The time of this presentation is yet to be announced so as not to take away from the roundup gathering.

Looking forward to shooting the bull with everyone in Texas, especially my Women friends. (inside joke) Until then, I'm still hanging on by my bootstraps...

Michael

[Michael Anthony]

To All,

My newly established e-mail address for contacting me is:

Bespokeleather@aol.com

Michael

[crary]

David,

Yes you are correct about the insoles. We had specially made chrome treated insoles. They we about 11 iron and were very hard. They resisted the cracking at the bend point and that is why we used them. In those days we actually did some hand sewing "norwegian welts" on some of the boots. Those insoles were used and puting the awl through them was a killer.

When my dad sold the business in 1983 one of the first things the guy who bought it did was to eliminate all leather insoles. This saved him a bundle. Going from an insole that cost 3.50 in those days to a texon paper which costs 35 cents multiplied by 60,000 pair in the year he paid for the business and the customer who bought the boots didn't find out till later when they say " didn't these boots use to last longer" DUH!!!

Anyway pardon my venting. Life in the fast lane of shoe manufacturing...

Regards,

Bill

[gcunning]

I know we have beat toe boxes to death but I have been thinking.
What kind of leather are your toe boxes made,anyone?
I'm sure I have missed this but I wonder if it varies?
Also
( Murphy showed up on my second boot:
pulled end,
cought falling awl-ouch
and welt to short)
How do you solve the 3/4 of an inch welt I need to finish??

[dw]

Gary,

I started out using soling leather split down to about 8 iron. That's the way I was taught. Currently, I generally use soling or insoling at about 6 iron...who knows how accurate that is, though--depends on how your splitter is set.

But you know what, I've made good toe boxes out of 3 ounce veg tanned calf and kangaroo. Not box toes (square) or even narrow "Bluchers" (a chisel and that's what my teacher called them) But for wide round and wide Victorian "coffin" toes it works really well.

I generate a lot of soling and insoling scrap as well as lining scrap so the raw materials are cheap and readily available. I literally have used scraps from off the floor for excellent toe boxes--'course that only happens when I'm particularly messy that week.

The welting dilemma...If I see I'm gonna run short on welt, I try to trim it so I'll be at least an inch short--and a little more is actually better. Then, before I get real close to the end, I bevel (skive) one side--as I visualize it (here at home) I think you always bevel the grain side of the already sewn welting and the flesh side of the scrap--but you have to determine which direction the stitcher is going to come from because you don't want the table running up under your splice. Then I bevel the aforementioned piece of scrap welting (longer than one inch) on the other side. Simply overlap the bevels and continue sewing. That's if you inseam as I do...inside out, starting on the left and always toward myself. When I do this I try to position a stitch at the edge of the bevel on both pieces, so that the bevels, themselves (which are weaker) are sandwiched under the stitch. Still with me? Then I finish off as usual, level the welt and when everything is dry, I slip a little press cement in-between the bevels and clamp it down with a lining plyer and a rubber band. Let sit for 5-10 minutes and voila! you're good to go.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[gcunning]

Yes I start on the left and work toward myself inside out around the toe and back to myself. I noticed I was not going to have enough when I rounded the toe. I was pretty hacked off cause I know I measured correctly.
Thanks

[Tex Robin]

Gary,

Never cut your welt off. Leave in one piece till you get to the end of your boot. That's a coke you owe me at WF...TR

[bultsad]

Tex,
Are you soaking your welt or do you sew your welt on dry?
Jim

[Tex Robin]

Jim,

I never sew welts dry. I dosk the welt in water for a few minutes and then sew it to a wet innersole....TR

[Tex Robin]

Jim,

My only complaint of this forum is it doesn't have an edit device. I meant to say that I soak my welts instead of dosking them....TR

[bultsad]

Tex,
That's what I figured. I just never thought of not cutting the welt off of the hank until you are done sewing. Up here I cut to length and soak the welt for 20 minutes or so and then I crimp it up for a few inches and hammer the feather edge to fold it over and flatten it out. Then I move around the whole welt that way until I have done the whole thing. Then I welt the boot.
Jim

[Tex Robin]

Jim,
I never do any forming or hammering on my welt. As pliable as the wet welt is there is no need for that. I simply start sewing it. When I am finished with the sewing, I stretch and straaighten it out with a pair of smooth jawed welt pliars.....TR

[rileycraig]

Tex,

Come on now...we know you dosk them! Big Grin!!

But seriously, why do you wet the insole? I used to do that but after the instructions you gave me on lasting I quit! Hmmm!.....Riley

[texrobinboots]

Riley,
First you dosk them and then you wet the innersoles . You are talking about two different operations which are separate from each other entirely. The reason to wet the innersoles is that it first makes punching your holes easier and also you can tap your stitches down with a hammer to tighten them. I don't soak them or anything. I simply use a brush and only wet the channel area. You have to be careful if you are using a light colored leather to cause water spots. But be sure you dosk them good....TR

[dw]

Tex,

You *can* edit your post...you just have to do it within five minutes. Hmmm...I'll look into changing that, making it a bit longer.

BTW, I dosk my welts and twe my insoles, too...and for all the same reasons. I just use a spritz bottle, though.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[admin]

Ok...now it's eight minutes...

Emmett

[Tex Robin]

DW,
I use a spritz bottle too for spritzing but for dosking I use a dosking brush...TR

[rileycraig]

Tex,

I think you've created a new word in bootmaking. I can only imagine what people will think (who missed that conversation) when they read that post. Toooo funny!

Good Bootmaking,

Riley

[Michael Anthony]

To All,

Rendenbach tannery contacted me yesterday in regard to our next order of pit-tanned leather. At this time, all of the 4.0+ mm and 2.0 to 2.4 mm shoulders have been sold. There are 5 dozen pair of outsoles remaining, available for immediate shipment. The response that I have received to date is 95% favorable.

The question that I ask of the forum:

Is there enough interest in using this quality leather to warrant preparing another container for sea shipment at the end of November? This would put the leather in our hands sometime around 1 January, 2003.

If you have used this leather, please take a moment to post your opinion about it. Also, if you are interested in taking delivery of some of this leather, please advise us of what you would like.

Thank you to everyone...

Michael

[Tex Robin]

Michael,

You asked so I will tell you my honest opinion about the Redenbach sole leather. I worked one pair of them on a pair of boots and here is the result. The leather has an obnoxious odor to it when dry. When I soaked the soles it became more obnoxious. Then when I applied the all-purpose it was even worse, actually irritating to my nasal passages. Then when I started to finish it showed a tendency to burn. After completing the boots and applying the polish and finishing them they still had an odor. So here is my evaluation of the leather. If they can get rid of the odor and whatever makes it burn and the price comparible to good American Leather then I would evaluate it for wear. You asked and this is my honest opinion ...TR

[dw]

Michael,

I like Reddenbach. I like the smell--it smells dark...like wood and moss and earth--and I like the longevity that I'm seeing. My customers come in and say "be sure to give me that German leather you used when you built my last pair." And when it is even, I like the finish. But here lies the rub...I have two complaints, both, more or less about finish, that need to be addressed before I can become a constant customer.

First, these soles need to be matched for colour and thickness. It seems to me that they must cut thousands of soles from hundreds of hides and as they do, they throw them all into a common bin for later sorting. And they don't do a very good job of sorting. In a dozen pair, eight singles will light and four singles of the opposite foot will be dark. Seven singles will be a hair over 12 iron and five singles of the opposite foot will be under 12 iron. Personally, I'd prefer the slightly thinner and the paler stock but mostly I'd just like some consistency, In a dozen pair I have yet to be able to get 12 matches.

Secondly, I will never use their soles as long as they have the brand on the grain side. And I know plenty of people who agree with me. If you are a shoe repairman and your main objective is the replacement of a sole, well, then it's one thing. But for a boot or shoemaker, soles are just raw materials. They aren't the end all and be all. Imagine having to make a pair of boots with "Freudenberg" stamped on the side of the tops or on the instep of the vamps. You wouldn't do it. I don't know why they are so hard headed about this but it's poor customer relations, at the very least.

I also wanted to try some of their insole leather but I have a bit of Baker's left and it is **so** good...it's hard to imagine anything being any better. So If I have to pay a premium, like most folks, I want to avoid the hassles with colour, and thickness, and branding, and such. If Reddenbach wants to make it hard to deal with them, then so be it. I'll deal with Baker.

If you can convince them to address these issues, I'd be happy to purchase from you on a regular basis.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[Michael Anthony]

To All,

What a surprise, Tex hates the smell and DW loves it...hmmm

About the color and thickness:

When I toured the tannery, I saw the way that the thickness of the soles are graded. They are measured with a laser at approximately 100 points from which the average is computed and automatically sorted by thickness. From these stacks of equal substance, the soles are then hand sorted for color. You'll notice that when they arrive, one dozen soles are not separated 6 left and 6 right, they are paired with the mate that matches both substance and color. It is true that the soles may appear to be of different thickness, but when you measure the overall average they are the same. I have been known to occasionally reject the tannery's pairing and match one more suitable for my use. For me however, a little color or substance variation does not justify a substitution for quality. My personal opinion is that this is the best wearing sole leather on the planet and I have used it on every pair of boots that I have created except for one, only because I was out of Rendenbach inventory.

As for the tannery stamp, we have rectified this problem and all of the soles will now have the stamp on the flesh side. In Europe, the stamp is a sign of quality and some makers leave it to be seen so that their client's know that they are receiving the finest leather. I saw one client's shoes made from Horween shell that insisted on having the Horween tannery stamp visible under the tongue of the shoe. Why?

Anyway, I don't suppose that there will be enough interest to bring in another shipment which is actually fine for me because it means a lot less work. We'll see what other response we get, if any.

Awaiting your comments...

Michael

[dw]

Michael,

All I got to say is that either they're blinder than bats over there or someone shuffled the stacks of soles in the last batch I got. I'm fussy but not that fussy. One shade of difference doesn't bother me. Two shades is disappointing but I can probably deal with it. But I have soles here that were paired with mates that were three and four shades difference in colour. And from one of the several dozen I bought, there are three "orphans"...lefts or rights...that have no known colour match in the stack--not even remotely close.

As I said this is supposed to be premium leather. They themselves make a fetish of telling you that you're not supposed to mess with the finish...not supposed to sand it (that's why Tex says it burns...and he's right) or dye it. OK...I can handle that. [In fact, when you can match a pair up for colour, and you take great care to keep the sole pristine and not get it scratched or dented, a natural finish with these soles can be truly magnificent.] But if that's the rules then they need to set their own standards a bit higher--or get a brighter light. I don't care if they're using rocket science to grade them...maybe they need to go to something a little more low tech--like the *visual cortex*! Anyone with two *eyes* can *see* the difference in colour.

You did say you wanted an opinion....

And here's another one: I admire some Europeans but I don't buy into everything the Europeans think is swell. So, personally, I don't care what they do in Europe. I want my boots to stand on their own...for their workmanship and design and elegance. I don't think that displaying the trademark of the raw materials will add glamour or cache to my work. In fact, I think it detracts. But that's just one opinion...

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[texrobinboots]

DW, Michael,

Actually the brand on the sole is no problem as long as it is shallow. I just flex and bend them when they are wet and it diaappears. And I also naumkeig it too. I don't care for their natural finish. I don't see the elegance in it. And even if they can get rid of the smell and the burning problem I still prefer buying American leather and I personally don't buy the story of them being better than our soles. I don't think your short term trial means anything. It would take several years to see if they were really better. There are too many variables envolved in the wearing of leather soles to make this judgement without a long study...So don't tell me because it is German it is better. I just don't swallow that. But it does Stink!.....TR

[Michael Anthony]

DW,

For someone who does not care about what they do in Europe, you sure do quote European shoemakers and authors a lot?

Just an observation...

Michael