Great Leather!

Got any great sources for leather? Tools? Machinery? Looking for sources?
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farmerfalconer
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Re: Great Leather!

#576 Post by farmerfalconer »

I talked to Dave at Keystone last week and he is sending me and insole sheet since the precut soles arent wide enough. I got 10/11 irons with the grain on and I got them oiled. He said that most bootmakers liked the oiled so I figured that sounded good but I was wondering if you can soak, mellow and block an oiled insole. Can you?

Thanks,
Cody
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Re: Great Leather!

#577 Post by farmerfalconer »

Also wondering why the grain should be buffed of.

Cody
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Re: Great Leather!

#578 Post by kemosabi »

If the grain isn't buffed, it can have a tendency to get brittle and crack after prolonged wear.

Cheers,
-Nat

(Message edited by Kemosabi on January 30, 2013)
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Re: Great Leather!

#579 Post by dw »

I am not a fan of oil stuffed outsole-insole.

In the first place, it's not shoulder so the fibers are still short and dense.

In the second place, the oils that they use are often synthetic and ultimately no good for the leather, IMO.

And just as an aside, the oil will resist any cement or glue that you might use.

I like Dave, I deal with him. I like their leathers. But oil stuffed insoles are simply outsole leather--from areas of the hide that have never been a good candidate for insole.

And given that, you might as well cut your own insole from a bend and either use it "as is" or grease it up with lanolin and tallow.

If Dave and Keystone would offer a good shoulder cut it would be far better for everybody.

IMO...

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Re: Great Leather!

#580 Post by courtney »

Greasing it up with lanolin and tallow sounds like a pretty back in the day kind of thing, isnt there like a lexol or pecards or something that would be just as good?

also, I went to Maverick leather and Matt Foster? said he was going to probably be getting some of those mexican insole shoulders, no specifics though.

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Re: Great Leather!

#581 Post by dw »

Indeed it is a "back in the day kind of thing" but such greases were, back in the day, applied and allowed to warm up beside the fire and so they sunk in and penetrated deep into the fiber structure. And in doing so provided a reservoir of conditioners to nourish and preserve the life of the leather. I use a heat gun...gingerly and on the grain side only so as not to interfere with glues or cements.

I don't think that Lexol will get it for this kind of application (not familiar with Pecard's) and in fact, I'm not even sure that I entirely approve of the chemicals and ingredients of Lexol at least in its more modern iterations.

I have been encouraging Matt to carry the Mexican insole leather for some time. I'm still waiting. It used to be pretty good. However, the last shipment I got of it...before Dave bowed out...was worse than useless. I occasionally use remnants from that shipment to do build ups on last but even there it is "iffy."

Best of all is Baker insole shoulder and if there were a source here in the US and I could get it more or less "on demand" I would buy it exclusively regardless of the premium that it surely would carry.

PS...I might also mention (meant to and then it slipped my mind) that one of the reasons I avoid insole-outsole is that it doesn't have the ability to form a footbed the way insole shoulder does. Ultimately, an insole made of outsoling becomes brittle and hard and it cracks. That's been my experience.

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Re: Great Leather!

#582 Post by farmerfalconer »

Hmmm. Thats dissapointing. Dave was real nice and is sending it to me for free and if I dont like it he says I can send it back and if I like it I just pay for it. hate to do that though. oh well.

Thanks everyone for the feedback,
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Re: Great Leather!

#583 Post by farmerfalconer »

Perhaps this is the wrong place for this as this section is called Great Leather.
I recently made a deal with the joiner at Old Salem in which he is going to turn me some awl hafts and I will make him a laptop bag (from leather) He is paying for the leather and wants it as cheap as possible.
I dont know many sources for leather other than Tandy and keystone so I thought maybe you all could help.

I need 12sq. ft. of 5-6oz vegtanned leather as cheap as possible and preferably under 90 bucks. As long as its cheap it will do.

Thanks a lot,
Cody
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Re: Great Leather!

#584 Post by lancepryor »

This just arrived:
15199.jpg



Complete bottom leather for 20 pairs of shoes from J & FJ Baker Leather in England.

From the top, and left to right:

Back row: Heel lift leather (2 stacks)

Middle row:
Outsole strips
Insole strips
Stiffener strips (for heel counters)
Toe puff strips

Front row:
Welt strips

For anyone interested, ordering was pretty easy; mainly e-mails with one phone call to Baker. I sent the money via wire transfer, but I believe they will also take a credit card for a small surcharge.

As you might imagine, shipping was pretty expensive, but it ended up being only a bit more than the UK Value Added Tax (20%) would be if you bought it and took delivery in the UK! I imagine I'll get hit with a customs charge and a brokerage fee by the shipping company (FedEx). Still, all up, the cost of all of this leather will end up at less than $100/pair of shoes. If you want to make the best quality products, you've got to start with the best materials.

Obviously, the insole, outsole, and welt are the most important of these leathers; you could get those for half the cited amount -- the other items are almost as expensive. They are tanned the same way, so I guess that makes sense.

I want to encourage people to consider getting leather from Baker; it isn't that difficult or that expensive. We complain about losing the various sources of materials and equipment, so let's support those still around!

Lance
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Re: Great Leather!

#585 Post by homeboy »

Lance,

About a year ago, I tried to order from Bakers. Over a 2 1/2 month period it was touch and go via emails. If my memory serves me right, my order was around $4000. All of a sudden, no response when trying to pay. I was willing to pay anyway they asked. Finally, no response to emails. In the end, I got fed up with the hassle. Just said the hell with it.

I'm glad to hear you was successful! Wish I had some!

Jake
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Re: Great Leather!

#586 Post by marika_vchasse »

Hi Jake and Lance !
Me and my friend Jesse have been ordering from Bakers on a regular basis once to twice per year for a few years now and it always worked really well. We are more successful with ordering via phone. But it usually gets to Brooklyn in a managable time frame. And yes - it is just beautiful to work with, hard to work with anything else after you had a try with their leather.

Marika
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Re: Great Leather!

#587 Post by lancepryor »

Jake:

If you want to try again, I'd be happy to wire them the money, and you could pay me. No charge, I'd just have you pay me the same amount that the wire xfer ends up being. My bank doesn't charge me any wire transfer fee; I just pay about 2% above the 'quoted' exchange rate which doesn't include a bid/ask spread, so I think it is pretty good. Since I have the wire transfer all set up, it's easy for me to do. There are also some low cost exchange rate firms which may offer even better exchange rates and fees. The more $ you are sending, the better the rate you can get.

I also think one could save some money on shipping; there are a couple of companies that offer discount shipping via bulk discounts from FedEx/DHL, but I'm not sure how easy that would be to arrange with Baker.

It is funny, sometimes some of these UK companies seem as if they don't actually want to sell their products! I didn't get any response to my initial e-mail to Baker, so I phoned. After they were on the lookout for my order, things went smoothly.

Lance

(Message edited by lancepryor on February 28, 2013)
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Re: Great Leather!

#588 Post by dw »

Someone needs to be the US agent for them. I have always had a hard time getting orders completed via email. I tried to get in with Jake on his order. And someone else here, not so long ago, asked me if I wanted to go in on an order (can't remember who it was). Nothing ever happened.

Next time you order, Lance, let me know, I'll pile on.

I'd buy some of that welting and some of those heel stiffener blanks (half?) right now...if you were of a mind to place another order sooner than you expected.

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Re: Great Leather!

#589 Post by homeboy »

Lance,

That's very kind of you to offer. I'll probably take you up on it, since you have "their ear". I should have called them for sure.

Anyway, I'm out of town at the moment. I'll get back in touch next week.

Dee-Dubb, you can piggy-back off me.

Marika.....I agree! It's just the very BEST!

Once again Lance, THANKS!
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Re: Great Leather!

#590 Post by athan_chilton »

Lance, if a group buy from Bakers is contemplated, please include me. I am sure they would prefer not to deal with such a small order as mine alone would be. Thanks for letting us know about this. I figured I would not ever have the chance to try "the best" leather!
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Re: Great Leather!

#591 Post by kemosabi »

Is the glazed calf from Hide and Leather House in Napa CA any good?

https://hidehouse.com/products/index.html?Category=SHOE&Product_ID=917

Thx,
-Nat
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Re: Great Leather!

#592 Post by paul »

Nat,

I feel I ought to be the first to comment at least, since the page is illustrated with a pair of my boots.

But I don't know if what I used was the same as what they're offering here. So I don't have a direct answer for you.

The calf I used on this pair, it was forest green, was a little boardy and seemed to tear in some spots.
That's not supposed to happen. I wasn't impressed.
Again, I need to repeat that it may not be from the same batch. And really good calf will cost more than $3 a foot though.

So if you're interested in it for the price or availability, be sure to test it before you use it.

Best Regards,
Paul
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Re: Great Leather!

#593 Post by dw »

It's always a bit of a risk...of speaking to soon, as it were...when recommending a leather that you have just tried for the first time, but I recently received a half shoulder of 7/8 iron insole leather from Maverick Leather and Matt Foster.

I have been using the insole shoulders from Warkov-Safir, and while I thought they were OK, I also thought they were a bit soft. More than that, they end up being nearly as dear to US customers as ordering from Baker in England.

So the leather I got from Maverick was a pleasant surprise. It is not Baker by any means but it is not priced like Baker either. It is not as soft as the Warkov-Safir...more like the insole shoulders that Stevenson-Paxton used to carry when the shoulders were at their best. It maybe too firm for those used to the W-S, but it loosens up considerably when tempered. I suspect the firmness is as a result of the tannery rolling the shoulders.

Matt is still in the early stages of firming up the source and other specifics. But I have already given him my feedback and ordered several more double shoulders in the 7/8 iron (I can always split it for toe and heel stiffeners) from his next batch.

Anyone who is interested in another source for domestic insole shoulders might want to give Matt a call at 1.707.792.2208 or check out maverickleathercompany.com

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Re: Great Leather!

#594 Post by kemosabi »

Nice! I wondered who made the boots in that picture.

Much appreciated Paul. Thank you.

-Nat
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Re: Great Leather!

#595 Post by farmerfalconer »

Hello All,
Im getting ready to go ahead on a pair of shoes for myself and hope that this pair will at least turn out wearable. So I need a source for good veg tan calf, hopefully in the US. I wear a size 17 EEEEEE so I figure the leather ought to be a little thicker than usual. What would you all recomend? Im not looking for the best of the best as I am obviously not that good yet but looking for good leather at a good price. Not cheap leather though. I have seen all the sources on here but get a little confused with all the terminology.

Thanks a lot,
Cody
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Re: Great Leather!

#596 Post by jon_g »

Today I received my first ostrich hide. Expensive and a lot less usable square feet than I had anticipated.

I'm making a pair of whole cuts. Can someone give me some advice on how to cut this, as in which way to orient the patterns?
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Re: Great Leather!

#597 Post by dw »

Jon,

It's kind of a strange leather in that it doesn't stretch very much. What you are looking at is a belly cut, I believe, so the entire back is available and there is a pretty clearly marked backbone.

I've always been told that stretch runs perpendicular to the backbone, generally speaking. So I always put the toe closest to the backbone and align the vamps with the stretch.

Some English makers may do it the other way but I don't want a shoe to walk out and I do want some give lengthwise as I always last seats up.

Beyond that, cut for efficiency. It is expensive.

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Re: Great Leather!

#598 Post by gshoes »

DW,

I must not be understanding what you said correctly. I hate to ask, but could you draw me a picture.

Do you want more stretch lengthwise than from side to side?
geri
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Re: Great Leather!

#599 Post by jon_g »

Thanks,

Makes sense. I cut my vamps the same way that you do, for the same reasons. Unfortunately for a whole cut this looks like the least efficient way to cut.

Geri, it's more that I want the least stretch side to side. That's where the foot will be causing the most stretch and as much as I can I want to control this.

Jon
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Re: Great Leather!

#600 Post by dw »

Jon, Geri,

Exactly!

Face it, you've got a choice with ostrich--either violate every known principle of good cutting (no matter which way you do it), or sacrifice some leather.

I charge my customers the full price of the ostrich skin (given what some bespoke ostrich shoes or boots are going for I ought to charge twice that) and figure if I have enough left over for another pair of shoes--saddles on saddle shoes or just pieced oxfords, that's just a fair profit for being an exotic leather broker.

In any case, the excess is paid for no matter what it looks like.

BTW, if you're blocking your whole cuts the blockers won't be as wide as if you were not. I'm sure you know that... but for those who are following along.

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