Great Leather!

[piper]

Thank you Rick. They were very helpful at Brettuns Village and I liked the sense of humor on their web site.

[jon_g]

Has anyone been able to get any of the Baker insole leather? I sent them an email shortly before DW's post but have never received a reply. I'd love to know if it's worth pursuing this a bit more.

Aside from the Warkov insole shoulders, what else are people using? I'm looking for a firmer insole.

[dw]

I believe it is worth pursuing. and yes, I've had the same problem getting a response from them on occasion. Once you do and once it is determined that you are a serious, confirmed customer, things generally proceed apace.

I would prefer to use Baker above all other.

Warkov, which seems looser/softer at first, responds well to the process of wetting and drying on the last, and seems to transmute into something much more acceptable than at first. It also seems to have firmed up a bit on my shelves since the day I bought it. That said, I buy at 9-10 iron and split it to the thickness I need.

After the Warkov, you're left with curried outsole bends, I'm afraid. The problem there is not firmness(it's plenty firm) or softness (if curried and treated correctly it will be significantly more mellow than an outsole) but rather the shortness of the fiber mat. The length of the fibers is what holds the stitches.

I was talking to a fellow in London who was lamenting the length of stitching in hand welted work--3 SPI and even longer. Now, if the bespoke makers have access to Baker (and I can't understand why a maker in London would not), there is probably no logical excuse but if they are using curried outsole bends, I could understand it.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[romango]

I agree that the Warkov seems too soft at first. But after forming wet to the last, it seems to firm up considerably.

[marika_vchasse]

About ordering from Baker :
I have been ordering from them for a while now and it usually helps to give them a call at the beginning so they get to know you. They leather is just incredible to work with. It always takes a while for the orders so order way ahead! Good luck - well worth it!

[jon_g]

I've sent another message, we'll see what comes of it. I like the idea of the Baker leather both from the standpoint of the actual make up of the leather itself, but also the longer tanning will contribute to an insole that is more resistant to mold and mildew and the nasty things that live on feet.

In the meantime Warkov is what's available, and it's an acceptable leather, certainly easy to work with.

Now I like the idea of a splitter, I think I'll keep my eye open for one.

[jon_g]

Thanks for the tip Anne, I'll give them a call.

Has anyone tried their soling leather? Could one compare it to JR, or Belgian Diamond?

[dw]

Jon,

I've never tried the Belgium Diamond, but I don't care for the JR. It's OK as leather although "flintier" than anything else on the market but I'm not in any hurry to put their logo on my shoes anymore than the Coke label.

I do use a Belgium chestnut tanned leather from Milton-Sokol and have gotten something similar from
Keystone. I like these very well. Better, IMO, than anything domestic.

As far as the Baker outsole, I have some, I have used it and like it but find it just a hair softer than the Belgium tannages. Might just be the time of the year the hide was harvested and the fact that i have not bought a lot of outsole from Baker...so don't really have a sense of it.

Bottom line...you can't go wrong with the Baker outsole or the Belgium.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[marika_vchasse]

Hi Jon - I have been using their soling leather/welts and insoles. I do sew only by hand
and for that it is just great leather. The soling leather is very tough at first but after soaking great to work with.The flesh side needs to be glassed first before using. I've tried other soling material but after working with the Baker stuff there was no going back. As far as I know they have two weights - one for ladies work and one for heavier stuff.
Marika!

[jon_g]

Success. I spoke to a Mr. Parr today and it sounds like this ball is rolling. Your help is appreciated Anne.

[producthaus]

What kind of leather do people use for test fitters? Lower quality calf?

[romango]

I go to the scrap bin of my local leather store - Oregon Leather. Also the sale rack at Tandy Leather house.

Or order cheap stuff from http://www.brettunsvillage.com/leather/

Anything that reasonably resembles the stiffness and thickness of your good stuff.

[paul]

I look for 5-6 ounce chap leather for less than $2.00.
I also use skirting leather bellies for counters for my fitters.

And for heel bases, I've been using old ones removed from boots I rebuilt years ago. But pre-made bases from finders are another source.

Now if I could just use remnant minutes from previous jobs, that'd really be a savings!

Paul

[dw]

I came up understanding that in any hide there was really only a limited amount of prime leather. The vamps were always positioned in the very best of the best, the backs of the tops (boots) were next, fronts next, and counter covers and pulls etc., last--but all in as close to prime as possible.

No more than one pair of boots for a full hide unless you were making boots that had vamps of one leather and tops of another.

All the rest was marginal and destined for the scrap bin.

And none of this jockeying the pieces around for best, often interlocking, fit, regardless of lines of stretch, etc.. That's what I was taught a bespoke maker does--he gives the best to the customer who ordered the leather and the rest is considered "scrap."

That doesn't mean that scrap has to be thrown away, however, or that it has no uses. Depending on the size of the hide there can be a prodigious amount of scrap--sometimes it's almost alarming until you actually get to examining the scraps and realize that it really is less than you'd want for your own boots much less (hopefully) a customer's.

Making fitter's models is one such usage for scraps.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[big_larry]

Well,

Again I am having to agree and raising "the bar." I use the "scrap leather" for fitter boots and shoes even though it is very very tempting to use the entire hide for making several pair of boots, I know that what D.W. has said is correct. It does go against my desire to get the very most out of the hide. I will admitt that I have had several pair of shoes that the leather looked like &*@&*^$# and I wished I had selected better leather.

Over the past several years I have made a more complete boot as a fitter. This involves more time and a little more expence, but makes for a more sure fitting boot as the end product.

The time factor is the real issue. It reminds me of the salesman who stopped in Washington to ask a farmer directions. The farmer was holding a pig up to the apples on a tree so he could eat them. The salesman ask why are you lifting the pig up to the apples. The farmer replied that "the pig couldn't reach them from the ground." The salesman replied "well doesn't that take a lot of time?" The farmer said "yes, but what is time to a pig." Maybe it is better to just put in the time to do the job right than to worry about the business-like rate per hour. I reluctantly agree with D.W..

Best wishes, Larry Peterson

[romango]

For you exotic cowboy boot makers out there...

I know that when you make alligator or crocodile boots that you use up most of the hide but it occurs to me there must be small pieces that are perhaps too small for a vamp but could be used as some sort of upper panel or even pieced together for the diminutive cousin of the boot, the shoe.

Do you have such a collection of scraps?

I'm looking for a way to make some nice exotic shoes without the major expense of a whole hide.

At this point, I'm just surveying to see if such treasure troves exist.

- Rick

[donrwalker]

Rick

I have a bin where I throw exotic remnants. Every now and then I use them to make small items for family or friends just as a change of pace. You would need to indicate what size pieces you are interested in.

Don

[jon_g]

I'm interested in trying a crocodile or alligator leather. Can I get some recommendations about where to purchase some leather? I'm really attracted to the look of the hornback type, is this practical for shoemaking?

Thanks

[lancepryor]

Jon:

Lisa Sorrell recommends Mark Staton http://www.markstatonco.com/index.html

The skins she showed at the AGM were beautiful, particularly the salt water croc. They are pricey, but she said that Mark is meticulous about quality.

I don't know anything about the hornback portion, but I personally wouldn't want to use that portion of the skin; I think I've seen shoes made with it, but their appearance was, to put it mildly, not to my taste.

[sorrell]

Jon,
Lance beat me to it--I was going to recommend Mark Staton. He's a good guy and he always carries good quality leather.

I've only used hornback a couple of times as I've never really liked the look of it. I think it's a personal preference thing rather than right or wrong though. When I used it I was surprised to learn that those hard ridges of leather will become soft and completely easy to both stitch through and last if you let the vamps soak long enough. I think I put a little alcohol in the water too.

Lisa

[jon_g]

Thanks, I've sent a message to Mark. And thanks also for the tip about the hornback too.

[das]

Anybody know a source for:

"Bay Apache" hot-stuffed oily pull-up, snuffed grain heavy sides, or "Crazy Horse" (same kinda leather) in quantities less than a frieght car load?

Also, Prime Tanning Co. make "Crazy Horse", but who makes "Bay Apache"? Is it USA-made?

Also, pre-stacked leather heel bases, 5/8" to 3/4" high, but not at Panhandle's yeeeoooowwwie prices?

[dearbone]

Al,

I looked up a couple of suppliers in Canada,warkov has two kind of heels,one is cowboy boots heel and the other is 1-1/4 inch a little higher than what you asked for,they also carry some harness leather,hot stuffed with oil and waxes and comes in 3 weights of 9-11 oz 11-13 oz and 13-15oz.
Warkov 1 800 655 8619
204 943 3753

Nasser

[das]

Nasser,

Thanks for that lead.

The "Bay Apache" and "Crazy Horse" are uppers leathers. Basically a weather-proofed chrome side with a snuffed grain, like Nubuck, then heavily hot stuffed with oils/wax for a motley shaded oily-pull-up, "distressed" look. Justin et al use a lot of it for their boots--neat stuff for "cheap" side leather, crimps like butter, and some customers are requesting it. "Crazy Horse" is from Prime Tanning Co., and at least USA-made. "Bay Apache"???????

[tomo]

Al,
Try Hidehouse, they have a very user friendly site.
www.hidehouse.com
The leather may go by another name but they have pictures which are useful.

Siegals had something similar called Diamond Tan but I'm not sure what's happening with them???

Best regards
Tom.

(Message edited by Tomo on May 17, 2011)