Great Leather!

[athan_chilton]

Thanks, DW--the only 'veg tan' I know I've used for sure, is the kind I've made my insoles from--wet & molded to the bottom of the last. I also make my masks out of that leather, what I would call 'tooling' leather. I know it is flexible to some extent while wet...

I've gone ahead & purchased one of these hides; it does look beautiful. Will I find it stiffer than the cowhide I've worked with so far? How does it differ from cowhide in the lasting process? Or had I better just 'wait and see'? (grin)

[dw]

Athan,

Will I find it stiffer than the cowhide I've worked with so far? How does it differ from cowhide in the lasting process? Or had I better just 'wait and see'?

How can one say? I don't know what you've been working with. But if it is cowhide and chrome tanned the chances are that the Scotch Grain will be firmer and have a stiffer "hand." If only because the Edleman is calf and veg tanned.

Lasting shouldn't be a problem but you won't have as much stretch...some, but not as much. Nor do you want to stretch it so hard that you flatten the pebble. Maybe last it dry or just quickly spritz it.

Wait and see is the best policy--every piece of leather, every pattern, every foot has its own unique character.


Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[athan_chilton]

I was guessing it might well be firmer & therefore quite a bit different than what I've used so far--chrome tanned, as you surmised, and cowhide, somewhere between 2.75 and 3.25 in weight. Quite soft and stretchy--good for beginners!

Point about not flattening the pebble well taken--if I see that happening, it'll alert me right away that I'm going about it too hard.

I am going to have some questions about fitting (choosing last) but this isn't the right place for them... Thanks for your thoughts!

[romango]

Athan,

I've used a few different Silverstone hides. I'd call them mid-range as far as stretchiness. I will say that they are quality hides. This means they tend to behave and perform well under stress, as opposed to easily ripping or surface distorting.

You know, we're always on the lookout for good quality at a good price. So far, these products have not disappointed me.

- Rick

[athan_chilton]

Thanks, Rick. Seems I do have *everything* to learn. And at my age, sometimes I wonder if I forget stuff just as fast as I learn it?

I figure it's time for me to try something besides 'Butterball' chrome cowhide...once I solve the question of the last!

Does anyone routinely use upholstery leather for shoes? I've been curious about some I've seen--if it's tough enough for upholstery use, would it stand up to shoe use?

[romango]

There is usually lots of budget and scrap upholstery leather available from your local leather store (if you have one). I dig through the bins to find stuff that's a little stiffer and use it for fitters (test shoes) all the time.

Occasionally, I find a piece I can use on finished shoes.

[dw]

I would not recommend using upholstery leather for making shoes. The Edleman...and then only some of it...is an exception.

I think you almost have to know what you're looking at or have someone who has used it before recommend it.

Upholstery leather tends to be too soft, too flexible for making good quality shoes and often has a rubberized or corrected grain finish.


Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[athan_chilton]

Hello all,
I was talking w/Alan out at ShoeSchool & he told me about 'EC Leather Inc' in Tulsa OK, that had a deal on scrap leather of all sorts. I called them (Sue is the person to speak with) and told her I'd been to the ShoeSchool & Alan had told me about the scrap leather deal. I just got 50 lbs of so-called scrap--quite large pieces, all sorts of stuff, quite a lot of it good for shoes, some leather I've never played around with before, etc. This seems like a good deal for beginners, or for making fitters, etc. and some of it would be esp. good for women's playful looking shoes--some metallic and pastel colors, even. You can reach EC Leather at 1-918-583-0292. (No profit to me here, just passing along good info!)

[jkrichard]

Athan,
EC leather has been supporting Green Country students for years. We don't say, "I'm going to see EC leather tomorrow," we say: "I need to go see Sue."

[jkrichard]

Everyone,
While not completely related to boot and shoe making, I just received my order of "English" bridle leather from Wickett and Craig. I picked up a hide in chestnut and a hide in tan. Absolutely gorgeous hides, good square footage (25, 26 sq ft), great, firm hand, beautiful consistent finish and just the right amount of wax.
I was looking for a reasonable alternative to some of the English tanneries bridle leather for English saddlery work. My humble opinion is that Wickett and Craig has come pretty close in quality.
Great leather.

-Jeff
Member, HCC

[courtney]

If anyone is interested,
Barta Hide in Petaluma where I live has horse strips for $7.00 ea.
I saw Siegal has them for $30. so that seems pretty good to me.
Ask for Andy and tell him Courtney told you.
There # 707-762-2965

I have nothing to do with this, I just said I'd post it if you guys might be interested.

Courtney

[lemonpeachmango]

I've recently discovered some beautiful vegetable-tanned calfskin and goatskin leathers at Richard E. Meyer & Sons Inc. / Pergamena in Montgomery, New York -- about a 10-minute drive from my house (which is pretty exciting -- locally-tanned leather!).

I'm working on some bags and shoes with this leather now...I will post photos when I'm finished.

If anyone is interested, here is some info about the tannery and their leathers. Complete contact info is at the bottom of this posting.

Richard E. Meyer & Sons Inc. is a small family-owned tannery that originated in Germany and has operated in the United States since 1856. The tannery has been handed down through the same family for over 500 years. Their fine quality specialty leathers are produced using an environmentally friendly, archival chestnut tannage that is resistant to atmospheric degradation.

Veg-tanned goatskin is available in assorted colors and skins average from 5-10 square feet each. Veg-tanned calfskin is also available in assorted colors, and as natural undyed skins. They average 7-11 square feet.

Both the goatskin and calfskin are available in a variety of thicknesses upon request.

These leathers are excellent for bookbinding (the tannery's main market currently), and they are actively developing leathers that are more suitable for shoes and boots, bags, garments and small leather goods. Give Jesse or Karl a call if you'd like samples, pricing or purchasing information. They would be happy to send you a skin at a discounted price for you to try, or to have a conversation with you about the leather traits you require for your custom shoe clients.

www.pergamena.net

jesse@pergamena.net
845-649-5806 cell

karl@pergamena.net
845-457-3834 landline

R.E. Meyer & Sons Inc.
11 Factory Street, P.O. Box 307
Montgomery, NY 12549

[dw]

Thank you Mary Elizabeth.

I am up to my britches in badgers and cannot call them immediately but I am interested. I am hoping that in the meantime you will show us some of your work that uses the veg calf.


Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[romango]

Sorry, I feel like I've asked this before but I can't find the answer.

I want to get some veg tanned cream cow (or the equivalent) to line the vamps of cowboy boots.

What do folks recommend?

- Rick

[john_woodward]

Hardtke leather ,El Paso ..Ask for LOY

[courtney]

So, Whats the deal with everyone wanting veg tan everything?

Does'nt veg tan make evrything stiffer?

Courtney

[dw]

Rick,

I was going to say that I don't think that there's such a thing as veg tanned cream cow, and technically that's true, I suppose, because one of the things that marks cream cow is the chrome colour.

But I recently got some veg lining from Ecotan and it is cream coloured and supposedly entirely veg tanned. It seems a little soft, though...even softer than cream cow.

For real cream cow, Hardthe is probably your best bet...as John said.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[paul]

Courtney,

Not necessarily.

I keep 2 weights of "milled veg tooling leather" around all the time.

Years ago I came across a small remnant of "veg looking" leather in a bin I got somewhere. I was looking for something softer than what we usually see for tooled tops boots, and I wondered if I could order leather like this remnant. I shopped around, and found that I could get what I wanted from Wicket and Craig of America, 800 TANNERY. (I speak with Glenn.)

It is their regular veg tanned tooling or skirting sides, but they tumble, or mill, it in huge bins, and it comes out just as glovey as can be. The fibers bend and reconfigure to give a wonderful variety of textural nooks and cranies. Up on the rump the fiber is still tight. And if cased and boarded, or burnished, the leather will recooperate its firmness, but with a softer hand.

The wait for delivery can be long, because they need to fill the bin.

Here is an idea of how good this is for tops. Not a bit of the tooling depth was lost when turned, or even treed.

11120.jpg

11121.jpg

[luckyduck]

Wow, those are fancy Paul.

For the veg tan lining. I, too use the Ecopell from Germany. It feels way too soft for starting out , but makes a decent lining. It is tanned with rhubarb roots and you can get a copy of the certificate to show it is heavy metal free if you want. I don't have any boots with it that are old enough to really test it's durability.


Ecopell just came out with a new line that has a firmer hand for shoe making. Haven't gotten any samples yet.

Paul

[tmattimore]

I have used milled veg tan form wickett for years to make shoes and boots. I have used 6 oz. bridle, skirting and harness. Its extra cost is worth it for what I do, the splitting and milling charges are quite reasonable. If milling is too soft they can also just stake it.
Tom

[athan_chilton]

Question for those who've used the ecopell leathers for uppers: I noted the different levels of light sensitivity on some of the colors shown; does this translate, in your experience, into serious fading or other color change under normal wearing conditions?

[luckyduck]

Athan,

I have only used the black. The normal ecopell is so soft it is almost hard to work with. They have a new leather line that is supposed to have a firmer hand for footwear. I have not gotten my swatches of that yet, so I can't say.

As for fading, maybe Peter the distributor has more info on that.

Paul

[athan_chilton]

That's useful info, thanks very much. I got email from the USA distributor this morning, so I can talk to him directly. The normal ecopell you describe sounds akin to working with deer or elk, far too soft and stretchy--though it can make for nice lining in some cases.

[dw]

I think Ecopel is a bit soft for dress shoes.

I had not heard that they were offering anything firmer although they had some one-offs of calf that I used for a pair of boots and liked well enough, although it was a hair light for my druthers.

That said, most veg tan leather, even if it has been "milled," can be toggled back to a fairly firm state. The black chukkas I made were Ecopel and it turned out to be a fair choice for chukkas as they don't need a really firm leather...they're "country" shoes.

I have an order for shell chukkas and I am of two minds about it simply because I fear they will be too stiff for the customer.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[luckyduck]

www.teepee-leather.com

Is the web site for it. It is not on the main Ecopell site. Samples are in the mail to me, so we will see. I hope it works out, the smell of this leather is great and I really like the struck thru color with no finish.


Paul