The Crispin Colloquy

Renee,

Sorry, I can't find that link. I will say that, after chasing down various tools for brogueing, I ended up just doing it one hole punch at a time. I use simple paper templates to help align holes.

It really doesn't take that long.

For gimping I use a Singer 31-15 with an angle blade from Dick Anderson.

My advise - don't make this more difficult than it needs to be.

All,

For high quality leather punches,including Anton Wiesser set of broguing punches or replacments parts you may contact Heinrich Sapski,i think they are in Germany.
Email
sapski@wwr-gmbh.de

Web
www.wwr-gmbh.de

Renee:

Goetz/Gotz is a German shoe equipment and supplies company.

You can download their catalog here: http://www.goetz-service.com/web/home.php?lang=us&nr=2&cartid

The punch holder I reference is SKU 797 010 00 and is shown in the (few year old) catalog I have on page 133. The various punches available are displayed on the same page - the punch holder comes with one punch, the #8.

On the same page are 'ornament perforating needles' and the handle for same. These are single-punch needles and are available in numerous shapes, as displayed in the catalog.

Ordering these in the US is a bit of a challenge -- a few years ago DW ended up putting together a group buy from Goetz, during which a number of us ordered the punches and the holder. I believe Macpherson Leather is a dealer and could order them, also perhaps O. Baltor in SF. You could also order from these guys in the UK (int'l shipping for such a small item shouldn't be bad):

Leather & Grindery Supplies Ltd
147 High Street
New Malden
Surrey KT3 4BH
Telephone: 0208 9421979
Fax: 0208 9495887

Tom Pengilly

leatherandgrindery@btconnect.com

Or, I guess you could see if you can order directly from Germany.

Hope that helps.

Lance

Thanks, all, for the tips and info. I've downloaded a copy of the Goetz catalogue and will pour over it tonight. Looks like there will be tons of useful things in there.
Still stuck on the gimping... I don't have a Singer 31-15 but maybe I'll contact Dick Anderson to see what other options we might come up with.
I'll let you know if I come up with anything good.
Renée

I will have a few sets of crimping screws available after the first of Oct. They are made out of 6061 T-6 aluminum. You can email me
ddh55@suddenlink.net for pricing.

Well, work on improving my soles continue.

I was unable to find any edge irons; ebay has not been friendly to me the last few months. So I resorted to attempting to making an edge iron.

I thought I would post pictures of my exploits and see if anyone had advice for improvements.

In the tradition of Leno, I decided to cut my own "kit" I was not feeling so traditional that I did not grab the dremel tool from the very start though.

I first started with a "key bar" from the Ace hardware store.


I then went to work with the dremel tool. Unfortunately these pictures were taken after the fact, so you can not see the stages. The first two show how I performed the initial shaping with a grinding stone attachment. I performed everything but the groove for the wire using this.


I then cut the wire groove with a cut off wheel.


To this stage I was surprised to find I had spent less than 1/2 hour. The result was a rough cut, but from that stage I had to do a little finer work with jewelers files. The following shows the rough cut results.


I then added a handle and fired up the burner for a test. The handle turned out to be big and I will have to work on it.


I then tried it on a piece of leather (2 glued together) to test. I wished I had worked to clean up the edges better before testing to get a better test of the results. I will need to try more to see if I like this. The jigger is very visible, but I did not seem to get a very good wire. I do not know if it is the hand made iron, or something else I did wrong.


If anyone has any suggestions on how to make this better, please let me know. I was really working in the dark on this and was almost totally working from pictures in Salaman's Dictionary of Leather Working Tools.

Terry

By-the-way...I wish I new better what the final result should really look like since I am not sure I know what a good jigger and wire should look like.

Terry

Terry, definitely prepare the edge as best as possible before using the edge irons. Don't try to use them to force a shape (too much).

Also, the trimmer blades on my finisher have a grove to create the wire. So, when using a trimmer, there is already a wire before using the edge irons and the iron just reinforces it.

Terry,

I think you need to cut the wire just below the jigger, deeper.

Beyond that, you know that you need to pre-iron the edge of the outsole?You do this while the outsole is wet./ Do it once with a little R.M. Williams as a lubricant and then do it again after warming the iron and again, use a little RMW. This will impress and set the wires and the jigger. I think it was in Salaman...he quotes an old saw about "wetting and sweating" the edge.

Then after you've dyed and inked the edge iron again with a hotter iron to set the wax.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[center]Little Jack Dandiprat in a white petticoat,
The longer he lives, the shorter he grows.[/center]

Terry:

Also, since your iron appears somewhat convex, make sure the edge of the leather is concave. Use a half-round rasp, then a curved piece of glass, then sandpaper wrapped around some tightly rolled paper to give the edge the concave shape.

I like that iron, by the way.

Lance

Rick/DW/Lance

I will revise my techniques; your comments have helped considerably. It sounds like I may be close with the iron, but I now understand that I was considerably miss-understanding the amount of the pre-shaping that was required. Also the lubricant suggestion will help with some of the smoothness difficulties I was having with moving the iron.

I wish I had a trimmer. I have a Landis 100 without a trimmer.

I do think I was trying to force the shape more than I should. Thanks Lance for giving such a good description of how to do it by hand. I will go in search of a good half-round rasp (my current rasp has only a fairly shallow curve).

As an aside....
It was actually quite satisfying to make the iron. The "key bars" are made of a nice steel, relatively inexpensive (<$8) and come in various widths (the one I used was 1/2 in). It was also interesting to understand the shapes involved. Though it also helped that it was a fairly quick process. I already know I want to make two other sizes, so hopefully I will get better at making these.

Terry

I might add that when you cut a "wire" in the iron,it needs to be pretty smooth down deep inside of it. If it is not it will tend to break up the wire from sheer friction.

Mitchell makes abrasive cords that you can use to polish the bottom and sides of the wire.

Or you can try beeswaxing a piece of machine stitch thread--like 7 cord Barbours--and then rubbing that over some steel cutting rouge to make your own. That's what I have always done but, to tell the truth, it doesn't last very long.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[center]Little Jack Dandiprat in a white petticoat,
The longer he lives, the shorter he grows.[/center]

Terry,

If you don't have a trimmer, an edge plane can help. They are difficult to sharpen and need to be used on wet or tempered leather...just for the finishing touch before ironing (think thin shavings)...but they will cut the jigger and the concave surface and even cut the wires if I recall correctly.

There's one on Ebay right now...the sizing system is always a little suspect but a size 13 might be/looks to be just about right for a standard 10 iron outsole and welt. Item # 390395300684.

I'd pick this up myself if i weren't going out of town.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[center]Little Jack Dandiprat in a white petticoat,
The longer he lives, the shorter he grows.[/center]

DW,

Thanks much for the link. I have seen those go up on ebay but I have never known their purpose.

Terry

Terry:

I should think any convex rasp would be okay, as your iron only has a slight curve to it. You should be able to break a piece of glass with a curve for scraping it.

Also, for lubricant you can apply a little dry soap (from a bar of soap) to the edge if you don't have any of the RM Williams.

Lance

Does anyone know where I can purchase some device (maybe something similar to a shoe horn) for slipping the last back onto the shoe once already removed?

I "inherited' a few tools from a maker who was quitting some years ago...many of them Barnsley tools. One was purportedly exactly what you're asking about...it looked exactly like a regular shoe horn except it was a little heavier / thicker. I don't even use it as a regular shoe horn.

In the past I've just cut a strip from a plastic milk jug. Works a treat.

On the other hand, the right kind of last and you don't need anything to get the last back in the shoe.

plastic milk jug sounds right..!

After a lot of searching I found that Gavriel Nicola is selling aside from single punches also new brogue multi-punch tools (e.g. one hole 2.5mm+ 2 holes 1mm + 1 hole 2.5mm in one tool) . According to him he has them made in Ukraine and sells them from Spain. I did not have time yet to make extensive tests but some initial punches worked out fine.

See:
https://www.instagram.com/gav_nicola

Thought that might be of interest for somebody.

carsten wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 2:30 am After a lot of searching I found that Gavriel Nicola is selling aside from single punches also new brogue multi-punch tools (e.g. one hole 2.5mm+ 2 holes 1mm + 1 hole 2.5mm in one tool) . According to him he has them made in Ukraine and sells them from Spain. I did not have time yet to make extensive tests but some initial punches worked out fine.

See:
https://www.instagram.com/gav_nicola

Thought that might be of interest for somebody.

I have bought tools from him and he is reasonable...and shipping to the US is reasonable. He knows what he is doing. When i win the lottery, I am going to buy suitcases of tools from him...lots to like.

On the subject of tools...while not "tools to make"...Starko makes some beautiful tools, not sure where he is located. UK?

And I have bought from Yangzhitools, in China if I'm not mistaken. High quality reasonable price shipping prompt and reasonable.

Also Ratmir tools. Russia. Again good quality reasonable price.

And cobbler.name has 'crow wheels' that are really lovely.Again Russia. When I win the lottery I am going to buy one of each of everything he makes.

Oh no - just after I received the brogue punch tools I told my wife - now I REALLY have everything I will ever need..... Well, that was before you posted the links.

Now I am not so sure anymore. Looks like I told her way too early :-)

Beautiful tools. Thanks for sharing.

It's funny...I have probably twenty or more hammers, that many awls, and ten or more lasting pincers. But the strange thing is I use them, every one, at one point in the process.

You can never have too many tools.

dw wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:00 am On the subject of tools...while not "tools to make"...Starko makes some beautiful tools, not sure where he is located. UK?

This guy is in Ukraine.

I can vouch for the quality of the Starko tools and so far very reasonable prices compared to the few other suppliers around :-)