Finishing

Got any great sources for leather? Tools? Machinery? Looking for sources?
Message
Author
janne_melkersson
5
5
Posts: 225
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 9:00 am
Full Name: Jan-Erik Melkersson
Location: Östersund, Jämtland, Sweden
Been Liked: 1 time
Contact:

Re: Finishing

#51 Post by janne_melkersson » Wed Mar 23, 2011 3:06 am

I guess I missunderstand what Lance was talking about. What I meant is that on the last lifting before the top lift nails will be hammered down all the way round and even where the rubber piece will be. Those nails will be cliped so they only goes halfway through the toplift. Then the top lift is secured and I leave it often like that but if a client wants I can make a couple of "fancy" nails.
Hope this one makes sense
Janne

User avatar
jon_g
5
5
Posts: 207
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:46 am
Full Name: Jon Gray
Location: Annapolis Royal, Nova Scotia, Canada
Been Liked: 1 time
Contact:

Re: Finishing

#52 Post by jon_g » Wed Mar 23, 2011 5:34 am

Interesting Janne, so what you're saying is that you kind of nail the toplift from inside, meaning you can leave it without any nails on the surface if you wish.

I think I'll give this a try on my next pair for myself.

janne_melkersson
5
5
Posts: 225
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 9:00 am
Full Name: Jan-Erik Melkersson
Location: Östersund, Jämtland, Sweden
Been Liked: 1 time
Contact:

Re: Finishing

#53 Post by janne_melkersson » Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:22 am

Jon,
yes, when you put the toplift on you punch it down on cliped nails that goes halfways through. That way no nails will be shown on the surface.

Personally I prefer both the heel and sole to be clean from nails. However, I admire other makers who can create very nice patterns of nails.
Janne

User avatar
dw
Seanachaidh
Posts: 5373
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 1997 10:00 am
Full Name: DWFII
Location: Redmond, OR
Has Liked: 39 times
Been Liked: 3 times
Contact:

Re: Finishing

#54 Post by dw » Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:40 pm

Interesting. I would never have thought of it.

Here's a photo of a technique I've been developing. All done with a splitter and a little care in fitting.

Unfortunately, I only have a photo of half the process but you get the idea. They turned out really well and I put them on a customers shoes...just went out.
13520.jpg


Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

(Message edited by admin on March 23, 2011)

User avatar
kemosabi
5
5
Posts: 250
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 4:03 pm
Full Name: Nat Ledbetter
Location: Tennessee, USA

Re: Finishing

#55 Post by kemosabi » Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:18 am

I'm curious... (innocent question. Please don't read as criticism)

Why do this vs. an all rubber top lift?
Is it just for style or is there a functional reason?

I think it looks good BTW. Although I wonder how pretty the leather part of the top lift will look a mile down the sidewalk.

-Nat

User avatar
dw
Seanachaidh
Posts: 5373
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 1997 10:00 am
Full Name: DWFII
Location: Redmond, OR
Has Liked: 39 times
Been Liked: 3 times
Contact:

Re: Finishing

#56 Post by dw » Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:32 pm

Well, presentation is everything. and yes, in that sense it is a style.

But a leather toplift on a man's dress shoe just looks better than a rubber toplift--the, hopefully pristine, finish of the outsole is reflected in the same finish on the heel. And that, in turn, reflects the maker's care and skill.

As a nod to practicality, however, the rubber "corner" makes the heel not only wear better but keeps the heel from sliding out from under you in situations where the surface underfoot is less than favourable.

And no, the leather top lift doesn't look near as pretty a mile down the road but it doesn't look that bad either. That said, neither does the sole. More importantly, a shoe with a leather toplift sounds different that a shoe with a rubber heel. Better...to my ears.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

User avatar
kemosabi
5
5
Posts: 250
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 4:03 pm
Full Name: Nat Ledbetter
Location: Tennessee, USA

Re: Finishing

#57 Post by kemosabi » Thu Mar 24, 2011 3:37 pm

Thanks for the explanation DW.

You often seem to point me in ways I didn't expect. Image
I’ve thought about the durability and looks of heels, but never considered the sound. Image
Interesting…

-Nat

User avatar
dw
Seanachaidh
Posts: 5373
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 1997 10:00 am
Full Name: DWFII
Location: Redmond, OR
Has Liked: 39 times
Been Liked: 3 times
Contact:

Re: Finishing

#58 Post by dw » Thu Mar 24, 2011 6:07 pm

All,

Here's another set of photos that may spark some interest.

For sometime I have been envious of the materials that UK shoemakers use to protect a shoe after it is lasted. I even queried Mack about it.

So I went on a snipe hunt. And found several sources for "shrink film." There are several different varieties and some require high heat. PVC shrink film can be activated at around 250 degrees Fahrenheit. Despite what the companies will tell you that is within the rage of a 1600watt hair dryer. so I had some samples sent to me in a 100 guage.

Now mind you, this was my very first experiment and I already can see ways to improve the results, including using shrink tubing rather than shrink film but I thought someone else might be interested.

As it was I used a large sheet (actually a large tube cut open) and more or less lasted it over the top of the last. One of the pleats was quite large...I think I could do better in that regard...and didn't shrink up tight. These can be cut away and the area repaired with clear tape--either packing tape or a special shrink film tape.

After shrinking, the excess under the last was cut/burned away, with my handy wood burning tool, to a margin equivalent to where the inner edge of the holdfast would be and the film held its shape.

The film is quite tough and solid...not quite thick enough to prevent the awl from marking the side of the last if you are hand stitching the outsoles but enough to prevent accidental dents or scratches.

Remember, this is the first, rough (and I mean rough) proof of concept trial.

Anyway...
13524.jpg

13523.jpg

13522.jpg



Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

(Message edited by dw on March 24, 2011)

fishball
2
2
Posts: 55
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:47 pm
Full Name: Alexander A. W. W. Yu
Location: Hong Kong, Hong Kong

Re: Finishing

#59 Post by fishball » Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:06 pm

DW,

Could you show how a splitter look like?
I alway want to know how to cut the rubber like that.

A british shoemaker James in his blog show how he used plastic bag to protect the upper, I think you pals may be interested.
http://carreducker.blogspot.com/2010/07/making-packs-and-covers.html

User avatar
dw
Seanachaidh
Posts: 5373
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 1997 10:00 am
Full Name: DWFII
Location: Redmond, OR
Has Liked: 39 times
Been Liked: 3 times
Contact:

Re: Finishing

#60 Post by dw » Fri Mar 25, 2011 5:59 am

Alexander,
13529.jpg
13529.jpg (21.52 KiB) Viewed 928 times


Lots of these on Ebay or used ...different companies made...and still make...them.

Unless you're lucky expect to pay $500.00+ used.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

fishball
2
2
Posts: 55
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:47 pm
Full Name: Alexander A. W. W. Yu
Location: Hong Kong, Hong Kong

Re: Finishing

#61 Post by fishball » Fri Mar 25, 2011 8:47 am

DW,

OK, thank you. But how a splitter like this can cut the rubber with a "step"?
and also, does a 5 in 1 machine also do this kind of "splitting" job?

User avatar
dw
Seanachaidh
Posts: 5373
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 1997 10:00 am
Full Name: DWFII
Location: Redmond, OR
Has Liked: 39 times
Been Liked: 3 times
Contact:

Re: Finishing

#62 Post by dw » Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:29 am

Alex,

Yes, I suppose a 5-in-1 could do the job. I wouldn't want to mess with the angle of my 5-in-1 blade, however.

What you have to do is make sure the rubber is pretty close to the same thickness as the leather toplift. Then, set the splitter to split as close to half the thicknesses as possible.

Cut somewhat oversize pieces of both the leather and the rubber, but make sure the edges that are to be joined are straight.

Split both pieces an arbitrary distance from that edge...I use 3/4 of an inch. This distance doesn't have to be exact but 'close' works better.

Then measure the distance of the split on both leather and rubber piece. Trim any excess off the edge so that the split distance is now as exact as you can make it.

Using that measurement, cut down from the top of the rubber until you cut the upper half of the split free. You can see this clearly in the photo. I just use a sharp knife and a straight-edge.

Cutting from the flesh side, do the same for the leather top lift.

Voila! You now have a rubber plug that has a wide "rabbett" and flange and a leather toplift that has an exactly mirrored "rabbett" and flange that has been cut from underneath...the leather flange will overlap the rubber flange.

The rest is easy.

And when you add your brass nails along the edge of the leather top lift...where it overlaps the rubber...they will go through the rubber flange as well, thus securing that part of the rubber plug.

Just a little something I came up with...probably been "invented" hundreds of times before.

Hope it helps.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

fishball
2
2
Posts: 55
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:47 pm
Full Name: Alexander A. W. W. Yu
Location: Hong Kong, Hong Kong

Re: Finishing

#63 Post by fishball » Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:05 pm

Thanks a lot! DW.
Now, I am going to find a 5 in 1 machine.

piper
2
2
Posts: 56
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 10:00 am
Full Name: Diane
Location: Santa Barbara

Re: Finishing

#64 Post by piper » Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:16 pm

I'm not sure this is the right forum as I don't know all the terminology.

I was curious what "top lifting" means as it applies to a soling sheet.

And if anyone has used the Vibram Silvano soling sheet, can you tell me what the tread is like? It appears from the poor-quality online images that it's mostly flat with sunken-in shapes, which look like you could get a lot of mud trapped in. But if the shapes stick out instead, perhaps it is a grippy sole?

I would like to find a long-wearing sole that grips well with good traction. So far the Newporter unit soles are not too bad, but mud does get stuck in the tread quite easily. The Newflex soling sheet is also pretty good but I wear the tread off way too quickly. So I am trying to find something else I can use.

User avatar
romango
8
8
Posts: 854
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:40 pm
Full Name: Rick Roman
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Contact:

Re: Finishing

#65 Post by romango » Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:06 am

Diane,

Vibram makes many, many varieties of soling with many different degrees of stiffness and tread. If there is a shoe repair supplier in your area, you can go there and look them over. Sorry I can't be more specific.

A top lift usually refers to the outer most layer of the heel. If a heel is built up with leather it might finally have a Vibram top lift.

piper
2
2
Posts: 56
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 10:00 am
Full Name: Diane
Location: Santa Barbara

Re: Finishing

#66 Post by piper » Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:28 pm

Ah, that explains it! I was wondering what top-lift meant. Maybe I will just stick with the tried and true Newporters and just try harder to stay out of the mud and doggy-do.

Diane

adam_j
1
1
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2010 10:00 am
Full Name: Adam Jimenez
Location: Winona, MN

Re: Finishing

#67 Post by adam_j » Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:24 pm

parting with edge irons 479-634-2320

User avatar
dearbone
8
8
Posts: 1032
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2007 12:23 pm
Full Name: Nasser Vies
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Re: Finishing

#68 Post by dearbone » Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:06 pm

I am making some edge polish called "Fake"(pasty compound) from an old recipe which gives the substances that enter into the composition of fake as follows,
-heel balls.
-polishing balls of white wax.
- beeswax.

Now, Does anyone knows what is -"polish balls of white wax" or "white wax" as it sometimes called?

I made the recipe for black polish and used 2 parts bk heel balls and one part beeswax and added some spirit and I got some really nice pasty cream and tried it on a shoe edge and I got a very good shine out of it but for some other waists and brown bottoms polishes white wax is needed. Any clue on what is meant by,"white wax" is appreciated. Thank you.

Nasser

User avatar
kemosabi
5
5
Posts: 250
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 4:03 pm
Full Name: Nat Ledbetter
Location: Tennessee, USA

Re: Finishing

#69 Post by kemosabi » Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:31 pm

Pure Carnuba wax is often called "white wax".

Cheers,
-Nat

User avatar
dearbone
8
8
Posts: 1032
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2007 12:23 pm
Full Name: Nasser Vies
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Re: Finishing

#70 Post by dearbone » Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:30 pm

Thank you, That's the stuff I am looking for.

Nasser

User avatar
romango
8
8
Posts: 854
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:40 pm
Full Name: Rick Roman
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Contact:

Re: Finishing

#71 Post by romango » Tue Mar 19, 2013 7:56 pm

Mountain Rose Herbs sells pure carnuba... http://www.mountainroseherbs.com/

User avatar
dearbone
8
8
Posts: 1032
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2007 12:23 pm
Full Name: Nasser Vies
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Re: Finishing

#72 Post by dearbone » Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:30 am

Thanks Rick, I called them and spoke to Brain and ordered two pounds of it in flake form, I will let you know how the paste turns out when i make some and see the result when the paste is applied to the soles as a finish and i read it produces a good glossy finish on fiddle shanks. when used in the black or brown edge finishes,it controls the softness or hardness of the paste, Applying heel ball wax in the form of paste might be more effective and time saving as the process takes a long time and there is not much to save when it comes down to sanding and glassing the heels and edges.

Cheers
Nasser

User avatar
farmerfalconer
4
4
Posts: 167
Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:19 am
Full Name: Cody Howdy
Location: NC, USA

Re: Finishing

#73 Post by farmerfalconer » Thu Mar 21, 2013 12:23 pm

If youdont mind sharing it, What is the actual recipe? how many parts of what to what?

Thanks,
Cody

User avatar
dearbone
8
8
Posts: 1032
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2007 12:23 pm
Full Name: Nasser Vies
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Re: Finishing

#74 Post by dearbone » Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:19 pm

For this polish equal parts of white wax and beeswax mixed with pure turpentine, This polish is for fiddle waists and brown bottoms and final polishing on ordinary work, I put it on black, inked waist and it worked brilliantly.

Here is how to make it.
Cut or crush your waxes into small pieces and place them in a shallow tin box, place the wax over spirit-lamp or a gas burner on very very slow heat ,wax is easily heated and you don't want to burn it,use a wire to stir,when melted, remove from the heat source, pour into clean jar and quickly pour in the spirit and stir until thoroughly mixed, i used pure turpentine, a little more expensive than petroleum turp but it's worth it, allow some time for the polish to cool and while cooling it will become creamy soft paste a little lighter than butter in colour, the more spirit the softer the paste,but equal parts is a good start.
apply the polish, allow it some time and rub with soft cloth to remove access and get a shine. Keep the turpentine some distance away from the flame, it's flammable.

Nasser

User avatar
dearbone
8
8
Posts: 1032
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2007 12:23 pm
Full Name: Nasser Vies
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Re: Finishing

#75 Post by dearbone » Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:02 am

Here is a simple solution for the treatment of leather grains,i never thought of doing this until recently when i acquired some well tanned leather from the sixties but was badly stored in unheated garage for many years and there was some bloom on some of the skins,the skins were mostly bison calf and well tanned.

A simple solution of egg albumen (whites of hen's egg) in water will bring lustre back to the grain of leather skins and no more bloom.

Here is how it is applied,
Break an egg and pour the white only into a container, add one litre (1 pints)of water and stir it. To apply it, spread the skin on a table
and use a sponge and squeeze it of extra liquid and go over and wet the whole of the skin grain surface with the sponge, keep a white cotton cloth handy to rub the leather grain after and allow to dry.

Nasser

Post Reply