The Crispin Colloquy

Joel,

I found my "rosin " at a western store they said it was the same stuff that rodeo Bull Riders used on their gloves,price reasonable.

Ed

Joel,

I'm not sure who said that...if it was me, I didn't explain very well. Lanolin is such a different material it can never, ever replace pine pitch in a recipe that calls for pitch. It would actually do just the opposite in the resulting mix--soften it rather than add tackiness.

That said, as I intimated above, not all recipes call for pine pitch (and of course not all recipes are any dern good either).

Pine pitch comes in chunks, much like rosin, and can be soft, medium or hard (depending on the amount of residual turpentine, among other things). I don't think I've ever seen a liquid form that wasn't adulterated by some other compound. You wouldn't want to use it...again, part of the purpose of the pitch is to create a sticky wax that will adhere to the thread and to itself.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

Dw

The thread was a couple of years old. The lanolin was used to make a white hand wax. I think the recipe was 8 parts rosin, 2 parts lanolin and 1 part beeswax. Jake Dobbins had tried it.

I haven't had any luck finding someone who would sell pine pitch in a small quantity. But, I'm not really good at searching for things.

I did find the pine rosin, y grade, if that means anything to you, and yellow in color. They said they carry it all the time. If anyone is interested its; Blue Seal Feeds, Greenville, NH. 603-673-2601 You can buy it by the pound. Very Friendly.

I did see a recipe in a previous post that called for Atomic Wax instead of the pitch. Has anyone tried this wax.

When I make the wax is it suppose to boil and if so for how long? Also, do you work the wax like toffee till it cools completely?

Thanks for everyones help, Joel

Joel,

Jake did do some experimenting and came up with some pretty good hand waxes. The lanolin was to soften the rosin not to replace the pitch, however. I think Jake's purpose was to make a white wax (sometimes called a "summer wax."

But if you find someone who will sell in large quantity, look carefully at the price it will usually be much much lower per unit than in small quantities. I bought 12 lbs, if I remember correctly, years ago. But I know there is some Swedish burgundy pitch out there. An outfit named Kramer Pigments, if I recall.

Also I have used Atom Wax straight from the wrapper, as I mentioned above. I works...pretty well. Not as good as "coad" but it works.

As for making hand wax, I never let it boil. Just melt all the ingrediants and yes, you "taffy pull it till it cool some. Watch out though you don't want to burn yourself. A blackish wax made of pitch and rosin and beeswax will turn a bronze colour when it is ready to be put up to cool.

You just sort of have to experiment. Some folks don't even use hand wax, per se...relying on the paraffin coated dacron tapers for thread. No tack, no hold, but who's gonna see it?

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

DW

I am going to see it and that is all that matters. Quote, I have hanging up at work: "If you don't have time to do it right the first time when will you have time".

I found some natural pine pitch in 2oz tins. Expensive but I brought some, so I could play around with the stuff. Looks like rock candy in the picture I saw.

Thanks for your help, Joel

Joel,

I am going to see it and that is all that matters.... "If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when will you have time?"

Right on both counts. I was being "tongue in cheek."



Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

I made my first wax using only "rodeo rosin", and imitation bees wax that I purchased from Maine Thread. I'm not real sure of the ratio of ingrediants, but the wax I ended up with is quite hard and tacky when in use. It works well when using fishing line for waxed ends.

Joel,

I got my hand wax as black wax from a bagpipe shop on the internet. It was pretty hard so I added a tiny amount of beeswax and it seems to work quite well. Locks down tight but it is a little sticky and that's OK with me.

Tom Mickel

Found a good source for rosin if anyone is interested. $4.50 a pound they have amber & black. I am not affiliated with them so it is my understanding I can list the price. Rodeo Supply in Hazel, KY. I don't have their address but the phone # is 270-492-8786.

Curt,

Thanks for that. I don't know why rosin would be black unless it is really pitch or has some other ingredient in it. Not saying that it's not pure rosin...just never seen black pitch.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

Just recieved an order of 10 lbs. from this source. Really nice rosin, light amber, all large rocks. Will ship up to 12 lbs for a flat rate of 10 dollars. Really fast shipping also. They said they have lots.

All,

A couple of weeks ago, in my quest for brass nails to duplicate the look of the top end European shoes, I contacted Gurney. After describing what I was looking for, I was told that they would look into it.

Towards the latter part of last week I received a small packet of samples from them:

This is a 5½ x 16 solid brass brad. It measures roughly 5/8" long. I think it is nearly ideal. Talking further to Gurney, I asked if they could produce this in a slightly longer size--3/4" or 7/8". I am waiting to hear back from them.

That said, I am going to order the 5½...the only problem I have with them (and it might be exasperated with a longer brad) is that these probably need a pilot hole to drive straight. The brass is not super strong and bends easier (not easily)than steel.


PS...I'm sure that they would like to know that there is more interest out there than one lone bookmaker in the upper left hand corner.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

Further to brass brads...

Today, I had a conversation with Mr. David (?) Gurney of DB Gurney regarding the brass brads that are presented in the above post. It turns out that these are left-over from a past order of some magnitude. What is left over is roughly two or three pounds. Gurney has no plans to make more unless a substantial order were placed.

Today, I also received a sample of ¾" x 16 gauge brass brads from Marsh Fasteners.

They are a little bit longer than the Gurney brads and the head is a tiny bit smaller in diameter but about twice as thick as the Gurneys. The Gurneys have a bit of scoring on the shank that is not on the Marsh brads.

I ordered a pound from Marsh Fasteners in preference to the Gurneys. Brass is very expensive and the brads were not cheap. But a pound should go a long way and they will be available in the future. I also like the thicker heads and the longer shanks.

But anyone who is interested in the Gurney brads might be well advised to get them while you can...three pounds could be snapped right up. I don't know what the price for the Gurney brads would be but I believe it would be in the same neighborhood as the ones I ordered--roughly $20.00 a pound.

I trust I am not the only one who is interested in these brads and I hope this information will help.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

DW,
Glad you have tracked down these brass nails,yes they are expensive but we only use them on certain work. I do make a pilot hole to ensure I can position them correctly as out of line they look bad.Now a question for you, what do you use as an edge finish.We have ink in black and two shades of brown, just interested to see what others use.
Regards Mack.

Mack,

As for me, I use Fiebing's or Reliable brand edge inks (water-based, and very thick with pigment), as you say, black, then two shades of brown (dark, and medium).

Mack,

Me? I use Fiebings Burnishing Ink as well. I believe it also has a certain amount of wax in suspension.

I also use LCI which I think has more wax than almost anything else I've tried and a more opaque pigment solution.

Black and browns in both products, although I tend towards the darker brown (negro) whenever I do use any brown. And I also have a neutral in the LCI.

Additionally I have a bottle of Fato in mahogany and a bottle of GP in burgundy.

I also pre-dye all surfaces which will get burnishing ink in order to increase the opacity and depth of the finish.

What do you use?

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

I have been working for quite some time on a couple of quarts of Barge Cement. Went down to the store today to get another quart, and was told that they could not sell me a quart unless I hade a business license. Something to do with home security. When did this happen? What is everyone using for glue now?
John Lewis

The new formula Barge is crappy anyway. Maybe you can still get the old formula where you are.

Anyway, I'm using Duall #88. Seem to work just fine.

I am having trouble finding a past reference to a website that sells all manner of finishing solutions, dyes, etc. It was maybe called Advanced Footwear finishing or something like that?

They really had a large list of links in a weird website layout.

It is probably Prime Leather Finishes: http://www.primeleatherfinishes.com/

Erick

yes! thanks.

On the right is a 1/4 inch brass nail from Micro-Mark (www.micromark.com) Item #83554.

On the left is 3/8 inch nail I brought home from Budapest for comparison. Unfortunately, the Budapest nails are unavailable here or there.


They have a rounded head, which makes them protrude slightly but is pleasing visually IMHO.
They are a bit short and do not have rings to hold them in securely. Although I don't think they will pop out necessarily.

The shortness is an advantage for sole use or around the welt where 3/8 might poke through.


Micro-mark has a 3/8 and 3/32 lengths nails too. Don't bother with these. They are hair thin and of no use for shoes.

Rick,

Lance Pryer told me something interesting at AGM. As you know I am using a flat head brass nail from two sources...one of which is Gurney. (I don't remember who makes the other brand but they are nearly identical to the Gurney's)

I've been using them "as is."

But Lance said that the Brits drive the nails in about half way, then clip the heads and file the top of the shank flat.Then drive the nail the rest of the way so that it is flush with the surface of the toplift.

I tried that on a recent pair and the results were a lot cleaner and more aesthetically pleasing.

Just a thought.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

(Message edited by dw on March 22, 2011)

Interesting!

DW,
yes that's the way the Britt's do it and so do I. But I clip them so when you put the toplift on the nail goes no longer then half the toplift. The nail are not suposed to be visuable during wear.
Janne