Shoe machines

Got any great sources for leather? Tools? Machinery? Looking for sources?
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jon_g
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Re: Shoe machines

#476 Post by jon_g » Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:34 am

Thanks, that speaks to some of my questions.

What about the feed? I've seen some machines that appear to feed really fast, is this something that an operator learns to work with? The Artisan runs on a servo motor that speeds up or slows down depending on the depression of the pedal (effecting both the speed of the feed wheel as well as the knife). I've also heard of machines that run the knife full speed and the pedal effects only the feed wheel (Pilgrim sells a machine like this).

I'd like to invest in a machine that I have for a lifetime and am grateful for all the information I can get.

Jon

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Re: Shoe machines

#477 Post by bjohnsonleather » Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:47 am

Jon,
Second try at posting here, the cyber-dog seems to have eaten my first one. I posed the same question a few years ago and DW gave me the advice to contact Arnold at Melanie Machine in Vernon, CA. Arnold told me to bring my leather down and we'd run through a few. We made the overnight trip down and well worth it. He had an import set up (Tachoney?) along with a bottom feed Fortuna. The casting on the Fortuna is heavier. I run some vegtan and he had a milled steel feedwheel to help feed that more reliably along with presser feet with rollers for the topside. It was way easier to change out the feedwheel on the Foruna. My wife made the decision right there even though it was more money. The feet did not directly interchange between the two, and there are more feet options available for the Fortuna. Some of the sewing machine sellers of skivers then couldn't get anything more than what their skivers were shipped with.
Best part of the deal was Arnold. He took the time to show me the different tricks and tips about using one. I had driven my pickup down to cash and carry. He wasn't happy with a belt and some screws on the Fortuna. He kept it to make it 100%. He had his mechanic go through it next day and shipped it. It came with a new stone and knife in that is didn't have, the stick stones for deburring, and an original manual.

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Re: Shoe machines

#478 Post by bjohnsonleather » Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:00 am

Jon, I tried a servo on my Fortuna. It did alright on soft chrometan and was acceptable. It drug on some elephant and light latigo. I never tried it on vegtan. I just switched it back after the latigo, I could see where this was probably going. It would be nice to have the knife at full speed and contol the feedrate, but I have got comfortable enough now I just step on it and go.

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Re: Shoe machines

#479 Post by dw » Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:12 am

Jon,

My Pedersen drives the bell at top speed all the time. The foot pedal only controls the drive roll. I have a milled steel feel roll on the Pedersen and use it primarily for splitting. Even though it is bottom feed only I'm sure it would skive insole shoulder for heel stiffeners and toe stiffeners very well.

The Fortuna drives both the bell and the feel roll in response to the foot pedal pressure. I have a stone feel roll on the Fortuna and use it for skiving upper leathers. It too is bottom feed only.

I never had any training on these and in both cases I have learned to feather the foot pedal...stop and go, so to speak...but naturally the faster you go the smoother the results will be.

That said, I suspect that there's a limit to how much you get used to a fast feed. If you're using it for vamps and quarters, there are often complex curves that the machine...nevermind the operator...would have trouble negotiating at top speed. Hence the stop and go routine. I will even sometimes stop feeding lift the presserfoot and re-position a piece before proceeding in another direction.

Arnold and Melanie Machine are a wonderful resource but they are in L.A.--a long way from the upper right-hand corner.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

tomo

Re: Shoe machines

#480 Post by tomo » Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:17 pm

Jon I've used Fortunas and think they're great, they were all bottom feed machines and set up so that the foot pedal controled the lot - feed and knife. One of them was set up by an Austrian guy here who is an expert at making bags and satchels etc of the highest quality. His machine had a stone feed roller and a speed reducer on the end of the motor (like the Weaver ones) and it went quite slow but you had amazing control.

The one I have now is a BUSMC machine that has the top and bottom driven feed. The drive on this machine is 'all or nothing' and you seriously need your witts about you and I will clutch the motor and put a speed reducer on when I get some extra dosh. The feed roller on the bottom is the milled steel type and I find it'll catch the edge on some lighter leathers. Heavier leathers like skirt or bridles etc no problem. I could put the stone roller on and I think this would stop that.
It's safe to say that the Italians are the masters at making skivers - Fortuna, Camoga etc all the others are just copies.
I'd go with your Fortuna over an Artisan any day all things being equal, which I believe is what DW was saying.

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Re: Shoe machines

#481 Post by artvanhecke » Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:54 pm

Hi Tom,

The Germans invented skivers (machines) namely FORTUNA Spezialmaschinen GmbH.

Fortuna's are German.

Art

tomo

Re: Shoe machines

#482 Post by tomo » Mon Oct 17, 2011 1:20 pm

Thanks Arthur,
still good machines though Image

The machine that the Austrian guy 'tweeked' was amazing. he'd made feet for all sorts of jobs, some Teflon lined, others that would allow you to cut two small grooves to fold shoulder straps easily etc. He said where he did his apprenticeship people working the skivers spent two years training how to use them. When my friend bought the machine off the Austrian he got a cabnet full of parts and accessories.

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Re: Shoe machines

#483 Post by artvanhecke » Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:16 pm

Tom,

I have a dual feed and they don't have feet, you have to make a feed bar (top driven roller) for them to do anything other than what you can accomplish through adjusting the bottom feed. But oh boy does it skive veg tan nice. I think if I were to get another, or only one, it would be a bottom feed.

Art

tomo

Re: Shoe machines

#484 Post by tomo » Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:35 pm

I found the bottom feed only machine didn't like heavy leather very much ie skirting or heavy chrome. The leather would not pass freely and would often start to scorch (even after sharpening the knife).
With the top and bottom feed now it handles heavy hard leather better. But I still have more work to do to set it up. Like DW said there is a lot to learn about them. :0

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Re: Shoe machines

#485 Post by artvanhecke » Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:02 pm

Hi Tom,

Bruce Johnson has told me the bottom steel wheel will work good on heavy and veg tan, he has one on his machine. You are right about the top and bottom feed machines and heavy/hard leathers. Mine will skive a hard jacked horse butt without a whimper.

I haven't quite figured out where to put the extra motor, but I'm planning using the servo for the feed drive and a fixed speed to run the bell knife. If anyone has a constant speed bell knife machine, please shoot me a picture so I can see how they accomplish that with one motor.

Art

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Re: Shoe machines

#486 Post by tommick » Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:47 pm

Tom,
I bought an Artisan skiver a few years ago and the manual was basically useless having been written by someone who had only a passing knowledge of English. I called the US distributor and their comment was "well didn't you get a manual" and that was the end of the discussion and they weren't any help at all.

All that being said, I did finally get the machine adjusted and it works perfectly. I'm still pretty lost when I have to readjust it however and it usually takes me a bunch of time to reinterpret the "manual" and get it working again if I make any changes.

Otherwise the machine works really well for me but you'll have to figure out how to set it up for your own application.

FYI - I haven't purchased any Artisan products since talking with the US distributor that one time.

Regards, Tom

tomo

Re: Shoe machines

#487 Post by tomo » Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:23 pm

I spoke to the Artisan guy on the phone a couple of years ago and he was just rude. And I thought then we won't be doing business.
A friend from here went to a Wickenberg(??) and was told the same thing by someone else.
Steve from Cobra use to work for Artisan but also had problems with his boss (as I understand ) and so set up his own company.
My friend has just bought a Cobra to replace his Juki Pro and loves the new machine. I had a drive and it blew me away.
So yeah I'd recommend Cobra for sure. Even the follow up service has been good.
I think they do skivers too...

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Re: Shoe machines

#488 Post by artvanhecke » Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:30 pm

Hi Tom,

Artisan has apparently pulled all their advertising and has not been present at the last few shows. It doesn't appear they are actively pursuing the sewing machine business, at least the leather end of it.

Steve at LMC Cobra has handled anything (not much) in the way of parts or service for the Artisan Machines I have. I have two Artisans and five or so Cobra machines and Steve has provided any parts or advice I have needed for all of them.

They had a finisher at the show that is comparable to a S-1250 with a rotating brush/buff section instead of the fixed unit for a really good price (like 1/2 of a s-750). Nice compact machine. How about 4 foot instead of 11 foot for a Landis.

Steve is a good person to work with.

Art

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Re: Shoe machines

#489 Post by athan_chilton » Fri Nov 25, 2011 4:48 pm

I'm wondering if anyone can suggest what current prices are for used 5 in 1 machines or sole splitters (both hand cranked)? I've received an email from Melanie Machine with some prices, and have dealt with them previously with no complaints--just wondering what fair prices ought to be for rebuilt machines of this sort?

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Re: Shoe machines

#490 Post by jon_g » Fri Nov 25, 2011 5:00 pm

I recently bought a splitter. They are difficult to find. Two were priced around $1600 and the third was $800. They were all rebuilt machines with new blades.

I don't know about 5 in 1's but if I come across one at a reasonable price I will PM you.

BTW to those who provided information about skivers, I am extremely happy with my Fortuna, nice consistent cut, really nice for making a french edge. I appreciate the advice.

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Re: Shoe machines

#491 Post by jesselee » Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:48 am

How do you take off the bearings on a Landis line finisher?

Cheers,

JesseLee

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Re: Shoe machines

#492 Post by adam_j » Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:46 pm

message deleted...reason, from Posting Guidelines:
The Crispin Colloquy is sponsored by The Honourable Cordwainers' Company--a 501, C-3, non-profit, tax-exempt, educational Trade Guild. As such, posts that solicit sales that may be construed as being for personal profit may not quote prices. The item may be described, its provenance detailed, and a contact address included. But, at risk of jeopardizing the tax-exempt status of the Guild, no prices may be quoted.


(Message edited by admin on March 02, 2012)

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Re: Shoe machines

#493 Post by adam_j » Fri Mar 02, 2012 3:21 pm

parting with adler 30-7. call if interested. 479-634-2320

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Re: Shoe machines

#494 Post by 4c_boot_and_saddle » Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:54 pm

Does anyone know anything about old Konakraft belt making dies, mine are dull and virtually useless would like to purchase more called Nocona belts they no longer have them.

Thanks Kevin

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Re: Shoe machines

#495 Post by johnl » Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:23 am

A while back I bought a singer 51w54 post machine, and just put it in storage. Now that I have a little time, I am puting it back together and find that I should have looked at the plate on the motor instead of the plug. Its a 220 volt 3 phase. Any idea where, and at what cost to convert to 110V?
John Lewis

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Re: Shoe machines

#496 Post by kevin_l » Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:41 am

John:
Might want to just look at a new servo motor to mount??? I have two and love them. If anything happens to my clutches I'll be switching. Another way to go is a used clutch motor. They are not going for much now.

Kevin

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Re: Shoe machines

#497 Post by johnl » Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:28 pm

Looked around Memphis for a 110 volt motor clutch assembly for the 51w54 with no luck. You would have thought the sewing machine places I called thought I was asking them to find me a steam heating ice cream freezer. A little internet search came up with a supplier in Louisiana. Called them yesterday about noon and a brand new servo motor was at my front door at 10:00 AM this morning. Mounted it, cleaned the machine up a little more and oiled the devil out of it. What a sweetheart. Could not ask for a better running unit.
Any idea where I might find a manual for it? There is what looks like a wick that the thread passes over. Do I need to be running some kind of thread lube?
John Lewis

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Re: Shoe machines

#498 Post by d2don » Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:46 pm

I have the same machine. I also have a copy of the manual. I'll scan it and email it to you.
The machine is also for sale if anyone is interested. Complete with table and motor.

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Re: Shoe machines

#499 Post by elfn » Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:33 pm

I'd like to give you one more resource for machine stuff. WeFixIt is a yahoo group dedicated to sewing machines of all kinds. If you need a part they are a good resource. They haven't failed me ever.

Nori

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Re: Shoe machines

#500 Post by johnl » Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:05 pm

Thank you Don. I appreciate that
John

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