Shoe machines

Got any great sources for leather? Tools? Machinery? Looking for sources?
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lancepryor
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Re: Shoe machines

#76 Post by lancepryor »

I have a question regarding sewing machines. I want to get a machine to close shoe uppers. The leather would generally be pretty lightweight, say 3 - 4oz, plus of course the lining, collars, and what have you. So, any thoughts/recommendations? Is it possible to use a flat bed machine for this, or is a cylinder arm necessary? If both are options, which would you experts recommend?
erickgeer

Re: Shoe machines

#77 Post by erickgeer »

I may not be the best person to answer this, but I will give an opinion.
For closing, I don't think a flat-bed would work. I think most would say you need a post machine, but I found it hard to find one here in Chicago. I started out using a cylinder machine, and that worked pretty good for me, until I was able to upgrade to a post machine. I purchased the Singer 31-15 flat-bed machine to do the flat work. Someone else might recommend a specific machine for the weight of leather you are using, most of the post bed machines I have found are better for heavy work. I used to have a Singer 168-something with a walking foot that worked very good, but it had a complicated stitch length adjustment. A Rolling foot would give you pretty acurate edge stiches.

I'm running on, so I'll stop there. I hope this helps.

Erick
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Re: Shoe machines

#78 Post by jake »

Lance,

I'll piggy-back Erick's comments, this is only an opinion. I would choose a post machine.

As for flat work, I've gradually migrated from the Singer 31 Class (31-15, 31-18) machines to the Singer 110 Class (110W124, 110W125) machines.

As with the post machine, the Singer 110 Class machines have a bottom "roller" feed wheel. This makes for a much smoother sewing action when compared to the bottom feed dog action of the Singer 31 Class.

One "big" advantage with the Singer 31 Class. There is a point in the sewing cycle when all the sewing goods are basically free from "up" and "down" pressure. This is a great opportunity for the operator to rotate the goods during the sewing. With the bottom "roller" feed, constant pressure is on the goods at all times, and the operator has to manually lift the upper pressure wheel to rotate the goods.

Hope I didn't confuse you.
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Re: Shoe machines

#79 Post by lancepryor »

I have a line on a Landis and a an
American leather splitter; price $500 apiece. Is this a fair price? Preferences between one or the other?

Thanks.
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Re: Shoe machines

#80 Post by dw »

Lance,

Fair? Depends on the condition, I guess. This is one of those machines that sell for far more than they seem worth. I don't mean that they're not worth it, but for $500.00 you can buy a Singer 31 class machine...or, I bought my Landis finisher for $450.00, my Landis "F" for $225.00...etc. But $500.00 is probably near the going price for a splitter, these days.

The Landis will probably be newer. Check the drive roll...make sure the teeth are sharp. Check the blade, there should be at least 2" or so, of blade still left. Look at the way the blade is secured to the machine. Sometimes the bolts, etc. get broken on these machines and what is used to replace the original fixture is less than satisfactory.

Good luck! Hope this helps...

Tight Stitches
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tomo

Re: Shoe machines

#81 Post by tomo »

Anyone, someone, just one...
I'm looking at a Singer 331K116 Wheel feed, flat bed machine. It's sky blue - that's the only age indicator I have.
Does anyone know anything about this model?
pros' cons'? Suitability, reliability for boots?
More power to y'awl
T
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Re: Shoe machines

#82 Post by dw »

Tom,

I'm not familiar with the 331 series. But if it's blue what more can you ask? Image

Seriously, a good machine for making shoes ought to have the following characteristics...the ability to stitch very short (small spi); the ability to stitch very close (a top wheel on edge rather than a presserfoot per se); a bottom feed and not a walking foot; bottom feed and preferably no needle feed--a walking foot will mar fine leather and a needle feed hinders your ability to make graceful turns keeping the stitch lengths consistent. And a certain availability of parts, needles, and such. It does no good to have a great machine but no access to compatible needle systems in less than a size 24, for example. And lots of old Singer 31 class machines come with a standard double feed dog and a regular presserfoot...but the single feed dog and the roller foot are readily available--two parts which make the machine viable for shoe work.

If the machine sews well and adjusts tension...top and bottom...with some accuracy, and meets the other specs, it's probably a great machine. Posting a photo of it would help, too.

Tight Stitches
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erickgeer

Re: Shoe machines

#83 Post by erickgeer »

Tom,

Is this similar to the machine you found?
3121.jpg


The image is from industrialsewingmaching.com, it's a 331k104.

I'm guessing from this picture that it's from the seventies. This model looks like it has a reverse. does it have a built in bobbin winder?

Some people don't like the built in bobbin winders. some can be simply swapped out if they go bad (if parts are available), but not all. If it doesn't work it's probably no problem to use the regular belt driven bobbin winders.

Erick
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shoestring

Re: Shoe machines

#84 Post by shoestring »

What would be the ideal sewing machine for sewing uppers.And which one(s) are operator friendly and have available parts.
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Re: Shoe machines

#85 Post by dw »

Ed,

There may be no ideal machine. Some makers...especially making shoes...like a post machine, some like an arm machine (**not** a patcher though!). Bootmakers usually get by with a flatbed machine of some kind. Like I said to Tom, you need the ability to mount a roller presserfoot--one that rolls like a coin on edge. And...in my opinion only...you need to stick to bottom feed machines and forget the compound feed.

I have both a post machine and a flatbed. The old 31 class Singer is a classic flatbed. The parts are easy to come by and the machine is simple enough that anyone can keep them maintained and adjusted. The old 55 (?) class Singer post machine is in the same league as the 31--same mechanical principles-- but the parts are hard to come by and even the needle systems are "iffy." I have a 136 class Singer post machine and it is a great machine. It will do most anything a shoemaker would want and a lot of things a bootmaker would want. It's a more complicated machine, though--it has a "transmission." And while it's not prone to break down, it's a little harder to adjust when it does get out of whack.

There are lots of newer machines that either fulfill the same functions as the two above machines or are outright knock-offs. If you keep some basic principles in mind you can't go far wrong although you can spend a heck of a lot of money--money that won't get you anything significantly better than the older machines. New chrome and whitewalls ...that's all.

A lot of the newer (and some of the older) machines are set up on new power tables. That right there is where "operator friendly" comes into play...or doesn't. Faster isn't better. More power isn't the issue (beyond a certain point). Forget the quad-barrel carb. You ought to be able to walk the needle...chuck-aaa, chuck-aaa...with ease...without a lot of fuss. I like to see the belt and the clutch be *capable* of some slippage, even. Not slipping all the time, just when I want it--on demand, in other words. That translates to "control." The customer will never see the speed but they will see the control...or lack thereof.

Tight Stitches
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tomo

Re: Shoe machines

#86 Post by tomo »

Erick, DW,
thanks guys.
The profile of the machine looks seriously similar your picture Erick, except for the wheel feed, - might be a conversion?
I tried to download a photo and post it here, but their server spat the dummy and wouldn't play the game.
And DW you're right. What else could a guy ask for...Sky blue says it all!
My main concern was that that model drank at the Dog & Lemon.
Anyway, it's probably a moot point at this stage as my offer never reached the reserve. Although I've still got another suck of the sav. The machine has been offered to me at a fixed price of $NZ 380 - might need ya bucket and mop DW if I'm breaking the rules re: mentioning price, just cover the naughty bits with your duster if you will.Image
So thanks guys for your input. I'll let you know if I get it.
More power to y'awl
T.
tomo

Re: Shoe machines

#87 Post by tomo »

Hey guys.
Here is a photo of the Singer wheel machine I asked about earlier.
The vendor kindly sent me the photo.
3131.jpg

More power to y'awl.
T.
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Re: Shoe machines

#88 Post by tomo »

I meant to say that I've bought the Singer but haven't picked it up yet.Image
T.
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Re: Shoe machines

#89 Post by jake »

Tom,

Looks just like a Singer 31-18, which I have two of, but the color is YOU! Image

How are you going to utilize the machine? What size needle/thread?

Hope it works out for you. Take care!
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Re: Shoe machines

#90 Post by dw »

Tom,

Ditto on Jake's comment. I know it's not a 31 class, but it's set up right and should be just fine!

Tight Stitches
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Dan

Re: Shoe machines

#91 Post by Dan »

Wanted to Buy:

Treadle Singer 31 Class Sewing Machine.

Anyone know of, or have a good one for sale?

Please e-mail to above.

Thanks.

Dan
nick

Re: Shoe machines

#92 Post by nick »

can somebody please tell me anything about a very old leather sewing machine. It's a manual machine with Aug. W. Kulche Brussels marked on the box. It's Frobana patent and tagged with a metal plate that inscribes C.Frowein Barmen.
serial no. 6581.
tomo

Re: Shoe machines

#93 Post by tomo »

I've just acquired this 215 Pedersen finisher. The photo was supplied by the vendor and the machine had been in storage for about 4 years.The only parts that I think are missing, is the 'breasting wheel'(???) that attaches to the end of the tapered main shaft - there is a bayonet pin on the taper, below the cutters Does that sound right?
Does anyone have any suggestions where I could get a workshop/owner's manual for it?
I've tried Proleptic but can't see anything listed.
I also bought a grey longarm Adler 30-1 patcher that I'd like a manual for.
Any suggestions?
More power to y'awl.
T.
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Re: Shoe machines

#94 Post by dw »

Tom,

Let me look...I might have a manual for that machine--that's the model I have.

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lute

Re: Shoe machines

#95 Post by lute »

I located a 31-15, which appears in very nice shape, and am now on the hunt for a roller presser foot.
Inquired at Pilgrim and at Industrial Sew Machine for a ball bearing mounted foot such as DW described in an earlier post, but got no response.
DW, do you have a source for this part?
Also, Jake had discussed a narrowed roller foot,
obtained from Bob Booth, which seemed like a very good idea. Jake, may I obtain contact info for
Bob Booth?
My prospective 31-15 has all the gold decals, which is gratifying, so if it doesn't sew, it can at the least serve a decorative function.

Dan
erickgeer

Re: Shoe machines

#96 Post by erickgeer »

Dan,
Any Industrial sewing machine dealer/ service shop should be able to supply a roller foot, or order one for you. Pilgrim may be able to do it, but as far as I know they focus on the heavy machinery. I may be fortunate, but I have three dealers here in Chicago I can go to - it would not surprise me if there is one near you. There are a number of on-line yellowpages available that you could try - I would inquire by phone - I've never heard anyone specify "ball bearing mounted foot", so maybe start out vague with "roller foot" for your specific machine.

DW,
I would like to hear if there is a difference with "ball bearing mounted foot" vs. a regular roller foot - Are they the ones that don't roll backwards? I think my 31-15 has a free moving wheel. The singer post at the school has a non-powered wheel that only moves in one direction.

I wouldn't mind hearing about the narrowed wheel from Jake - is that a custom job?


Hope this helps,

Erick
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Re: Shoe machines

#97 Post by jake »

Lute,

First of all, Welcome!

Second, here ya go: Bob Booth Company...(940)987-3424
They are locate in Nacona, TX.

Tell'em Jake Dobbins sent ya. Good Luck!

Adios
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Re: Shoe machines

#98 Post by dw »

Dan,

One place I would look is Melanie Machine

Arnold Kay
Melanie Machine
4371 E 49th St
Vernon, CA 90058

800.894.9268
(323) 586-2090
fax (323) 586-2097

Or you might try

Universal Sewing Supply
1011 East Park Industrial
St. Louis, MO 63130
(800) 325.3390

Or

http://parts.singerco.com/

I don't remember where I got mine...it's been a number of years ago.

BTW--just a gratuitous piece of advice--if you're thinking about setting that machine up on a power table. stay away from the new ones. The best set-up is an old table with a dryer or washing machine motor in a cradle, and an external clutch. Better control and when the moter goes dead you can easily replace it--I just did...cost me all of $20.00. And the clutch pad can be replaced with soling leather...no need for a total rebuild.

Erick,

I prefer the ball bearing wheels...they turn easier and don't drag on (or mar) delicate leathers. I've had both but discarded all the none baal bearing types. But the wheels I've talked about turn backward just as easily as they turn forward.

Tight Stitches
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Re: Shoe machines

#99 Post by dw »

Tom,

I've got the 30-1 manual "in the can." In pdf format. I'm trying to clean up the schematic and parts list--it's very rough, the rest of the manual is original--I'll send it to you via email in a day or so.

When I get done with this I'll post the manual on the HCC web site (in pdf format) for anyone who wants an Adler 30-1 patcher manual to download--free of charge.

Tight Stitches
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tomo

Re: Shoe machines

#100 Post by tomo »

DW,
thanks so much for that, I really appreciate it.Image
More power to y'awl.
T.
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