Shoe machines

[jim_b]

/images{my picture}

[jesselee]

Al

They wee authentic high boots from the 17th century. On display at the Royal Ontario Museum. Its hard to get my head around the stitches on the sole edge unless the awl went through to the innersole and they were stitched 'through'. That would be easy down the leg to the throat and instep but hard at the toe area even when the toe had a high box. I have done this with a McKay needle set in an awl haft, but had to use a wire to loop the cord. Very tedious.

Cheers,

JesseLee

[jesselee]

All

Can anyone point me to a McKay/Champion/Landis 66 or earlier manual or pictures to ajust the mechanism for thickness of leather sewing?

Cheers,

JesseLee

[producthaus]

Jim, and others...

Below is specific to Artisan, but generally, can people comment on drop-feed with roller foot versus needle/wheel driven? I might be price-constrained to drop-feed, will it still get the job done?

Can you comment on the drop-feed action of the 5110 versus something like the 4618 which is needle-driven and wheel-driven? I just talked to Artisan and they said the 4618 would outperform when sewing three pieces of leather,or where leather pieces end/come together. Did you ever find the 5110 lacking for general shoemaking?

I am leaning towards the 5110, but might consider the extra cost of the 4618 if the benefits are tangible based on feedback from actual use.

(Message edited by producthaus on June 02, 2010)

[dw]

Nick,

Call:

Arnold Kay
Melanie Machine
4371 E 49th St
Vernon, CA 90058

800.894.9268
(323) 586-2090
fax (323) 586-2097

Ask him for a Singer 236 post machine. You'll never regret getting a wheel driven post machine over one with a drop feed.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[jim_b]

Not that I don't want to sell mine but DW is correct. My 5110 is a very good machine. It does lack a bit over heel counters, but not bad. I too have a wheel driven model. More money but more better.

[dw]

Jim,

My apologies...I didn't mean to undercut your deal.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[jim_b]

DW
this is an open forum, I am open. It is no problem and there was no deal any how. No worries. NO WORRIES!
Nick, if you want a more economical solution, I have one. If you want to go for the gold, do it to it!

[lancepryor]

Nick:

The Pfaff 491 is a great machine. The Singer 236 and its predecessor, the 136, are also very good. The advantage the Pfaff has is that the feed wheels (upper and lower) are gear driven, whereas the Singer 236's wheels (at least the upper) are belt driven, which I believe makes them a bit more temperamental. That being said, the 236 seems to have been the standard machine here in the USA, while the Pfaff is more common in Europe. I have the Pfaff and have taken significant portions of it apart and put them back together, and it is pretty straightforward with a user manual and the parts diagrams (available in digital form).

If you can find a Pfaff at a reasonable price, it is a good buy; you'll probably be able to find a 236 more easily, but from what I've read make sure to take it for a test drive before buying.

Lance

(Message edited by lancepryor on June 02, 2010)

[producthaus]

Thanks for the input - this gives me some options to research and consider. Since I am out of san francisco I am strongly considering flying down to Artisan and trying out their machines; and asking them to throw in an afternoon of training to get me started, along with a warranty and peace of mind. On the other hand there is used (but still quality) and cheaper, and a good bit of extra upper leather I could buy with the remaining money.

[amuckart]

Hi Nick et-al,

I have two 236s, one with the lining cutter (236W111) and one without (236W100). I got two heads so I can raid one for parts if I need to, but it looks like parts are fairly easily obtainable so I may end up with them both working. I got them based on Al's recommendation of them for closing machines here on the colloquy. His advice was to get some belt conditioner for the internal rubber belts so they're tacky and the machine will run well at slow speeds.

Moving house is currently eating all my spare time and energy but once I'm set up at the new place they're the first on the list to get working depending on whether I can find the fine-pitch tap and die set that's the last thing standing in the way of getting my 45k going since I don't want to have more than one machine in pieces at a time if I can help it.

I don't know who else has 236 parts, but I was put on to Bob Kovar as a source for parts and belts.
Toledo Industrial Sewing Machine Sales Ltd.
3631 Marine Rd
Toledo, Ohio 43609
1-866-362-7397

Lisa Sorrel has an Artisan post bed machine she seems to like a lot.

CowBoy sell a post bed, but I don't know what feed mechanism it uses.

Cobra sell a gear-driven wheel-feed machine, the model 8810, if you wanted to go the route of a new top and bottom wheel-feed machine.

I've never seen a Pfaff post-bed machine, but I have two old 34- class Pfaff flat beds and the quality of the engineering is very nice. They're smoother, and just seem better put together than Singers of a similar vintage.

[das]

Jesse,

Without seeing the boots it's hard to say exactly. Maybe contact ROM and ask for photos of the sole edge? Or better, go make an appointment to examine them in person. My bet is it's a "stitched rand", as "channel sewing" (through-stitching like a MacKay does) is more of a 1700s-c.1800 phenomenon.

[jesselee]

Al

Great idea. I plan a trip to the Bata Museum with my apprentice also to show them our work. I will see if I can get pictures of the boots.

Cheers,
JesseLee

[jesselee]

ALL

After months of cleaning the old Civil War period McKay, she is stitching just fine with my home made spring for the cast-off. I would like to find a real cast-off spring. Maybe one from a 66 or earlier would work. Now to the task of setting up the proper treadle and drive arm to run the pitman arm and get a nice drive wheel.

If anyone knows of an old Blake machine I would be interested if its affordable.

Cheers,
JesseLee

[lisa_helen]

Hi,
I have been working with a teacher for the past year learning cordwaining. I now need to set up my own workspace and I am looking for a good used post bed sewing machine w/ reverse capability. I am located in N.E. Connecticutt
Thanks, Lisa

[jim_b]

I have a nice artisan 5110 w/reverse.
jbtlc@q.com

[jesselee]

Looking for a needle to cast-off diagram for a McKay stitcher. Seems my cast-off is a mouse hair off and the hook holds on to the cord so the cast-off can't make a loop.

Cheers,

JesseLee

[jim_b]

I can mail a copy of the cast-off pages for an 88A if that is what you want.
contact me on jbtlc@q.com

[hidesmith]

So, OK . . . here's the question:
Does anyone know of a repairman/woman who can fix a Landis 36 McKay? Pamco told me they have NEVER worked on Landis, Pilgrim said it was too big, that they didn't work on the larger machines anymore, Gateway/Shoe Systems Plus said it was too old and Landis Int. offered to take it in trade so they could wholesale it to Mexico. None of the aforementioned knew of anyone who could repair it. The machine breaks thread every 2 to 4 inches. I've tried both left twist thread, right twist and braided - all provided the same result. I've cleaned the machine as well as I could, dismantled it as far as I dared and still I get "Ring Around the Collar" - sorry, I get confused easily. It still breaks thread every 2 to 4 inches. When gas was so high, someone at Pamco said they could repair it, as well as tune up my 2 curved needle stitchers for about $1600, including cost of travel. It was too expensive at that point, but when I called them 6 months ago, they denied that it was possible that I spoke with someone at their place of business - as I said, they informed me that they have never worked on Landis machines. I was a bit surprised to hear this, as they routinely have rebuilt Landis machines for sale.
Anyway, I need my machine repaired. I still think it'll be less expensive to repair it than replace it with a comparable machine.
Any ideas?

[tmattimore]

The main cause of thread breakage on any machine with a hook needle is the thread not being caught by the needle properly. When the needle is down at the lowest point the thread should be pulled to the needle above the barb. If the thread does not seat cleanly in the barb it will break, also if the needle is too small for the thread it will break. A number 5 mckay needle should handle a 6 linen although 5 is better most old timers use a 277 braided nylon.

If the thread is clearing the barb and being caught properly then you must follow the thread back and see if it has too much tension on it. The thread has to be breaking somewhere between the time the needle barb catches the thread and the cast off frees it. You should also check your cast off for rough spots or burrs. If you do not have the manual I belive Proleptic or Pilgrim may have them.
Tom

[jim_b]

I agree and further more; any where the thread travels is a point of concern, i.e., the splitter, pickup, shuttle assembly, etc. Rough, burres areas added with the amount of tension (and they pull hard) will take a simple 1 or 2 two strand cut and break it. It is a good idea to remove all the shuttle assembly and inspect and "polish" it. I use a mop brush on a finisher to fine smooth parts. Using super fine emery cloth on inside curves. Make sure the thread lock wheel is clear and smooth and that it has enough release.
As for the size and clearance of the thread from the barb, the barb needs a slight (couple degree) rotation from center. Watch it as you turn the machine manually and be sure the thread is coming cleanly free from the barb as the pick up takes it. Adjust pick up and barb direction accordingly. any one strand not coming free will break entire thread.

[danfreeman]

It sounds like timing--is a manual available? You'll need it to know what to do--in addition to the needle and hook, you also have the splitter timed right. Use the biggest needles, at least until you get it sewing. McKays, chain and lockstitch, and Littleways all use left-twist thread, but I use Corus, which is braided.

[sue_e]

This is my first message to ask you all for your wisdom so please bear with me if my shoe making terminology is a bit second hand...
I'm currently in the middle of my second shoe making course (and loving it) and have been offered a Pfaff Industrial Sewing Machine, model number 38-45. I've done a little bit of a search on the web and apparently it does zig zag and cording... It has a sort of double roller foot arrangement.

Here it is /image{thepfaff}

Anyway just wondering if this machine will be useful for an aspiring shoe maker...

(Message edited by Sue_e on October 03, 2010)

[tmattimore]

Sue
Grab it, as a single needle it will do the work of a 31-15 as a zig zag it is good for rear seams on quarters, as a double needle with practice it will make a top stitcher for toe caps etc. If the price is right. Pfaff's once you learn them run trouble free for eons.

[sue_e]

Thanks so much Tom. I've taken your advice and grabbed it..The price seemed good to me (only $355) so I'll be picking it up soon.

Glad to hear that you can operate the machine as a single needle as well - wasn't sure about that

The owner also has a Folding Machine CSM for $99 so I'm wondering if I should grab that as well?

thanks once again Tom much appreciated.....