Shoe machines

Got any great sources for leather? Tools? Machinery? Looking for sources?
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Shoe machines

#1 Post by admin » Sun May 05, 2002 12:20 pm

On 06 May, 2002, all post to this topic made prior to 25 February, 2002, were moved to the first Crispin Colloquy Archive CD.

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Re: Shoe machines

#2 Post by mnewberry » Fri Nov 22, 2002 8:23 pm

I'm looking for advice regarding eyelet setting. I have for a long time used an eyelet that I buy from Ohio Travel Bag (A-275). This eyelet is made to be curled down, not starred or split. I prefer the curled eyelets, as I seem to get complaints about frayed laces if I split the eyelets. But these are really fickle, and in my latest batch about half of them split as I'm setting them, and I've got to take them out... What do others use for eyelets?

Matt

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Re: Shoe machines

#3 Post by bultsad » Sat Nov 23, 2002 7:45 am

Matt,
I am having good luck using the 00 grommet that Ohio Travel Bag is selling. I don't know the catalog # offhand. You might be able to use your current dies since they are supposed to roll the edge. What I don't like about the grommet's is the length of the barrel. I can only find them in one size and on heavy leather they can occasionally come up a little short. If you are using a skiver this is probably a moot point.
Jim

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Re: Shoe machines

#4 Post by dw » Sat Nov 23, 2002 8:26 am

Matt, Jim,

Goldberg carries rolets (that's what the eyelets that don't split are called) and each size generally comes in long and short barrels.

For dress boots with enameled eyes you either have to buy large quantities from someone like PCI--where you can specify that you want the enamel on nickel or on brass--or settle for aluminum eyes...again from Goldberg. The aluminum rolets seldom if ever split. Come to think of it Goldberg may be able to get brass, too. But I think only in certain sizes or colours.

I use a German made setter and have pretty good luck but if the setting dies aren't precise for that size of eye you may well get some splitting of the eyelet even if it is a rolet. Nickel will split, at least once--usually only once, more often than brass or aluminum though, in my experience.

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Re: Shoe machines

#5 Post by rileycraig » Tue Dec 03, 2002 8:05 pm

I hope this is the right place for this...one of my customers bought three sewing machines at an estate sale, and asked me today if I would look at them, and possibly determine their worth, if any. Two of them were very unusual, to me anyway, they were Singer 107W100's with no pressure foot and the needle plate was about the size of a quarter with a horizontal slit in it. Can anyone shed a little light on this machine? It was heavy duty with all sorts of "gadgets" attached to the back of the head. I use the term gadgets, because none of it was recognizable to me.

Good Bootmaking,

Riley

Dan Ames

Re: Shoe machines

#6 Post by Dan Ames » Wed Dec 04, 2002 6:23 am

Riley,

The 107 is used for embroidery work. You can download an instruction manual at www.cuttersexchange.com.

Dan

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Re: Shoe machines

#7 Post by rileycraig » Wed Dec 04, 2002 7:06 am

Dan,

Thank you for the information on the 107, and also for the web address of Cutters Exchange. There are a couple of manuals I need that I'm sure can be found there.

Good Bootmaking,

Riley

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Re: Shoe machines

#8 Post by paul » Wed Dec 11, 2002 7:53 pm

I just got my 236 Class post machine from Larry Waller. Boy, am I excited about it. Just as I thought though, I just finished stitching the vamps and counters on two pair I'm building,
yesterday. Ironic, huh?
I've got a table lined up in Phoenix I'll pick up this weekend. 2003 should be a magical year for me, what with this machine and the stuff I'm learning for you guys. Man I can't wait. Larry tells me about some pattern making books, I'm looking forward to studying. I'll get those shortly.

I got a call yesterday from the guy I made my first pair of Packers for. He liked 'em! Said they were great. (DW, you get some credit for that, with your clear and easy to follow tutorial you've published.) He's in Florida. I'd like to see them on his feet for what I could learn by seein''em on him, but I'll take that he's happy with 'em. That's three in a row that are happy customers without any adjustments.

I just got done closing the side seams on two pair of Light Brown Water Baffalo. One is the 4 1/2 I was thinking about doing as a cement construction and the other is the carved top one I was asking about earlier. So far so good. Of course the vamp stitching would have been much better had I had the 236, but I'll get to that later. Man, the feed dogs really tore up the edge of the counters. After two rows to stitch the counters on and then three rows to stitch the counter covers, it looks all tore up back there. Is there something more than the roller feed to remedy that? Is that question clear? That's an intersection of 5 rows of stitching all on the same basic line. Looks pretty rough.

Enough from me for now. Like I said befor, I'll post some pictures when I take the time to figure that part out.

PK

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Re: Shoe machines

#9 Post by jake » Thu Dec 12, 2002 4:13 am

Paul,

First of all, sounds like maybe you have too much pressure on the pressor foot. I would decrease that a bit.

Right you are concerning the 5 or 6 rows of stitching at the throat of the boot. If a person's not careful, they can even have rows of stitching running across each other. What you can do is when you are stitching your counter, drop down 1/8" from the counter margin and start your sewing. Somewhere right before you get to the heel slide, if you are using a fairly narrow heel slide, ease up closer to the counter margin. What this does is make room for your counter cover stitch lines at the throat of the boot. Another way to approach this problem is having different seam allowances for the counter and counter cover. I have used a 1/2" seam allowance for my counters and a 5/8" seam allowance for my counter covers with good results. This gives you a 1/8" margin to run your 2 or 3 rows of stitching for your counter covers. The only problem with this method is you have to decrease the heighth of your counter by 1/8". Again, this is dependent on how you make boots. The way I make my counters, I can give different boot sizes different counter heights. The larger the size, the higher the counter. Another reason I like the later method, is that it gives me a smoother transition at the throat of the boot. I don't have the margins of the counter and counter cover exactly at the same point on the boot.

Hope this helps and I haven't confused things more for you.

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Re: Shoe machines

#10 Post by jake » Thu Dec 12, 2002 8:23 am

Paul,

Here's a couple of pics that might make my comments clearer.
2312.jpg
2312.jpg (38.1 KiB) Viewed 5385 times


Here's a counter with a 2" height:
2311.jpg
2311.jpg (36.74 KiB) Viewed 5385 times

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Re: Shoe machines

#11 Post by paul » Thu Dec 12, 2002 8:56 am

Jake, I think I get it. I can see how changing margins like that would separate the lines of stitching. Thank you.
It also makes alot of sence to vary the height of the counter according to the size of the boot. Thanks for reminding me of that fact. I've had thoughts before, about such variations, regarding the boots Rocket Buster made, that were, what, 6' tall? Demensions have to remain proportionate. Not only for appearances, but because the proportions of the body change too, right. And I would suppose the demands that force puts on the components has to be allowed for as well.
Thank you again. There's something to learn from every pair. I just love it.

PK

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Re: Shoe machines

#12 Post by rileycraig » Fri Mar 07, 2003 6:28 pm

All,

I am in need of a machine that will sew side seems and the only thing I've found via Ma Bell's invention was an American Straight Needle for three grand...Ouch! Any assistance would be appreciated.

Good Bootmaking,

Riley

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Re: Shoe machines

#13 Post by jake » Sat Mar 08, 2003 3:54 am

Riley,

That's ridiculous! You can find "rebuilt" ones for $1500.

You need to be careful of people's terminology though. What do they mean by "rebuilt", "remanufactured", and they use some other terms which escapes my mind at this moment.

Don't know where you are located, but these people are pretty good: http://www.pilgrimshoemachine.com/

I've got one for sale, if you're interested. This avenue would have to go "private".

Hope this helps.

Tex Robin

Re: Shoe machines

#14 Post by Tex Robin » Sat Mar 08, 2003 7:27 am

Riley, Jake,

I don't think an American straight needle ever needs to be re-built. I have one that was bought in 1960 old and used and it is still sewing. Never replaced any parts in that time....TR

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Re: Shoe machines

#15 Post by rileycraig » Sat Mar 08, 2003 8:03 am

Tex,

That's good news, maybe I can find one as good as yours. I've never even used one, but am getting tired of sewing side seems by hand. Brian e-mailed me privately about one for sale, and I've sent Jake an e-mail, so maybe I'll find one.

Good Bootmaking,

Riley

Tex Robin

Re: Shoe machines

#16 Post by Tex Robin » Sat Mar 08, 2003 8:17 am

Riley,

Just be cautious about re-built machines. It often means that they have been cleaned and painted. There are some good ones still around though. Jake's is probably a good one. With any machine just make sure they sew and you are in business.....By hand?...never!....TR

tmattimore

Re: Shoe machines

#17 Post by tmattimore » Sat Mar 08, 2003 8:24 am

the American st needle is a very operator friendly machine. It does seem to sew best with linen or very low stretch nylon. For side seams a flat plate is best. I belive pilgrim sells them and most of the parts that may be worn. I used to use mine for outsole stitching until I got a curved needle. In my experience 1000 to 1500 is about the going rate.
Tmattimore

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Re: Shoe machines

#18 Post by rileycraig » Sat Mar 08, 2003 1:24 pm

Tex,

Yeah, I know what you mean about "re-built" machines. Len Boden has one for sale, and I haven't heard back from Jake as yet. I think I would trust either one of them, but there are some shady characters out there. I won't mention any names, but there's one in Oklahoma who is quick to clean and paint a machine and tell you that it's just been rebuilt...I bought a couple from him.

Good Bootmaking,

Riley

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Re: Shoe machines

#19 Post by rileycraig » Sat Mar 08, 2003 1:27 pm

Tex,

The message I just posted didn't read right. I didn't mean that Len had a re-built machine for sale (and that's how it sounded), I meant that he has an American Straight Needle for sale.

Riley

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Re: Shoe machines

#20 Post by dw » Sat Mar 08, 2003 1:37 pm

Like Tex, I've had an American Straight Needle for close onto 30 years. Never had to replace a part but there are one or two minor parts on it that were obviously "home-made." Still works great though as long as you don't run nylon in it.

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Re: Shoe machines

#21 Post by rileycraig » Sun Mar 09, 2003 8:06 pm

All,

Could anyone share any information about the Prosew 440 sewing machine? I saw one in a catalog from Mast Hardware, and will phone them tomorrow, but thought someone here, on the forum, might have some knowledge about this machine.
Thanks!

Good Bootmaking.

Riley Craig

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Re: Shoe machines

#22 Post by jake » Sun Mar 09, 2003 8:15 pm

Riley,

Just for your information, Weaver Leather bought Mast Hardware. Don't know if you are looking at a current catalogue or not, but make sure you have the right phone number.

tmattimore

Re: Shoe machines

#23 Post by tmattimore » Mon Mar 10, 2003 5:12 am

For any of the far east imported machines try Artisan out in Calif. He seems to have the best prices on new ones.
Tom Mattimore

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Re: Shoe machines

#24 Post by rileycraig » Mon Mar 10, 2003 7:30 am

Jake,

I think I remember when Weaver bought Mast, but I do appreciate you letting me know.

After talking with several people I've just about decided that I might be better off with a cylinder arm machine...it would allow me to do more...I think?

Good Bootmaking,

Riley

bultsad

Re: Shoe machines

#25 Post by bultsad » Mon Mar 10, 2003 7:51 am

Riley,
I hope you do not mind my butting in here. I have an Adler 205-370. It is a great machine for sewing a variety of items, however, in my opinion it is not the best machine for sewing sideseams. It will not pull the stitches as tight as a needle and awl machine will. I use my American Straight Needle for sideseams. As for the cheap imported machines, if you are doing occasional work and not using the machine everyday I suppose they would be OK. The castings are rough, the parts are rough,they do not fit together with the tolerances of the German or Japanese machines. If you would like a versatile machine, you might look into a company called Campbell-Bosworth. They are making a stitcher that is needle and awl, with I think, a 12 inch throat. That would give you the best of both worlds and it's American made to boot.
Also, Keith Pommer, in Worthing SD has a Landis 3 that he recently rebuilt for sale. It is very similar to the Campbell machine.
Jim

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