Peter,
The "Hungarian Coneheads" from D. B. Gurney, MA are a dead ringer for the hobs from Martin's Hundred, VA [1622 massacre]. The "Rosehead" "decor tacks" [get short shanks, like 3/8" for soles or 4-5/8" for heels] from Treemont Nail Co. are a ringer for 1600s-1700s too. The shanks are thick and they won't clinch because they're cast. I haven't seen the square heads you mention until muuuuuch later, WWI and after. The ones with little nicks cut into each side?
The square cut-nails, for heels, that look like wood pegs just in iron, start in the 1820s [US], and go on through the US Civil War and beyond. You can still buy these, but they're not as fat nor as short as the Civil War ones. Try D. B. Gurney, and ask for samples.
Looking for...
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petemonahan
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Re: Looking for...
Al
Thanks for the prompt and helpful response! I've been telling my customers that I thought the "coneheads" were more appropriate for early 1800's than the big square jobs which, like you, I associate with the World Wars.
The question is/was complicated though by the prevalence of the big ones in Civil war re-enacting. I've also got a photo somewhere of a shoe dicovered at Ft. Garry (present day Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada) which is said to be from 1830-1840 and appears to have the large hobs. In fact there are so many so close set on the sole that no leather touches the ground! 'Course,Ft Garry was a militia (Nat. Guard) post for decades too, so maybe the boot is from this century.
Anyway, thanks for the info. I actually have some of each style now but have been using the cones as more period. I'll keep your sources in mind, however, for future reference. Again, thanks for your generous assistance to a "newbie"
Your most humble and obedient servant
Peter
Thanks for the prompt and helpful response! I've been telling my customers that I thought the "coneheads" were more appropriate for early 1800's than the big square jobs which, like you, I associate with the World Wars.
The question is/was complicated though by the prevalence of the big ones in Civil war re-enacting. I've also got a photo somewhere of a shoe dicovered at Ft. Garry (present day Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada) which is said to be from 1830-1840 and appears to have the large hobs. In fact there are so many so close set on the sole that no leather touches the ground! 'Course,Ft Garry was a militia (Nat. Guard) post for decades too, so maybe the boot is from this century.
Anyway, thanks for the info. I actually have some of each style now but have been using the cones as more period. I'll keep your sources in mind, however, for future reference. Again, thanks for your generous assistance to a "newbie"
Your most humble and obedient servant
Peter
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das
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Re: Looking for...
Peter,
If memory serves, the "ideal" hobs for 1800s, especially British stuff (what you're doing?), would be a "round" dome-head hob--like the coneheads only blunter. There's also a nice army shoe from Weedon Barracks [UK], c.1840s/50 with round domes very close together. After a bit of wear the cones become domed anyway.
=============
'Course,Ft Garry was a militia (Nat. Guard) post for decades too, so maybe the boot is from this century.
=============
"This century"? Which? If it is an 1800s shoe, and had those square hobs with the nicks cut around the four sides, I guess that style nail goes back further than I initially thought.
Keep this up and you won't be a "newbie" much longer
If memory serves, the "ideal" hobs for 1800s, especially British stuff (what you're doing?), would be a "round" dome-head hob--like the coneheads only blunter. There's also a nice army shoe from Weedon Barracks [UK], c.1840s/50 with round domes very close together. After a bit of wear the cones become domed anyway.
=============
'Course,Ft Garry was a militia (Nat. Guard) post for decades too, so maybe the boot is from this century.
=============
"This century"? Which? If it is an 1800s shoe, and had those square hobs with the nicks cut around the four sides, I guess that style nail goes back further than I initially thought.
Keep this up and you won't be a "newbie" much longer
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petemonahan
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Re: Looking for...
Al
I've been looking for the photo of the Ft Garry shoe/boot but, of course, I put it in a "safe place" where I'll find it some years from now but not any day soon!
I may be misrembering the style of the hobs based on the fact that they were so close-spaced that I couldn't concieve of they're being anything but "bigguns".
I also have drawings - same place, I'm sure, of two booties in the British National Army Museum. I believe, in fact, that they're your drawings. I'll check them for hobnail style too, if it's listed.
The smallest "Hungarians" I have are in fact domed rather than conical, so probably perfect for my needs. They came out of the "back room" of a century-old hardware store out in Winnipeg and are, needless to say, in limited supply but grreat to work with while they last.
Thanks again for taking the time!
Peter
I've been looking for the photo of the Ft Garry shoe/boot but, of course, I put it in a "safe place" where I'll find it some years from now but not any day soon!
I may be misrembering the style of the hobs based on the fact that they were so close-spaced that I couldn't concieve of they're being anything but "bigguns". I also have drawings - same place, I'm sure, of two booties in the British National Army Museum. I believe, in fact, that they're your drawings. I'll check them for hobnail style too, if it's listed.
The smallest "Hungarians" I have are in fact domed rather than conical, so probably perfect for my needs. They came out of the "back room" of a century-old hardware store out in Winnipeg and are, needless to say, in limited supply but grreat to work with while they last.
Thanks again for taking the time!
Peter
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das
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Re: Looking for...
Peter,
I guess I'm doing better, I have the photos of the 1846 Ft. Gary bootee right here. Looked close under a glass and lo and behold the hobs, which are cheek by jowl, and only run from the joint-line to the toe, look like cube-heads with a very slight taper, and the very corners faceted or radiused. The sole view shows one row around the very sole edge, joint to joint, an extra row across the toe, and three parallel rows down the forepart. The heel is missing, so no idea, bit I'd guess that was hobbed too or had and iron rim.
Parks Canada has another bootee, too, from Ft. Wellington, which is dated 1860s. It's a tad taller than the Ft. Gary bootee, and double-row pegged, no hobs, just maybe square cut nails(s) in the heel. The ones across the toe look like they might be those zinc cut nails, because they're a different color in the B&W photo than the pegs, but I'm just guessing on that. There's another bootee, no date, from York Factory site, pegged, no hobs visible in photo--check with Stephen Davis, Ottawa on the details.
The other two British boots, the M1861 "universal pattern", and the 1856 Coldstream Guards' pair @ NAM I have photos of as well. The 1856 has smaller-headed round domed hobs, with gaps in between, and an iron heel rim. There's one row around the edge, joint to joint, with six rows in the forepart that stop shy of the toe except the 6th, which runs up and forms a double row across the toe. The M1861 has no hobs, just a double row of cut-bills, looks unworn, and has an iron heel-rim.
Regarding my pen and inks drawings, I'm curious, however, how you came by copies? If they're helpful to your research, I have no problem with you using them, I'm just wondering how you got copies. I'm pretty proprietary with my schematic footwear drawings until they're published, and those two haven't been. And I can only think of one person I shared them with, with the understanding they were for his private use, not distribution. The drawings I made of both bootees should be marked in the lower right-hand corner (C) 12 April 1988. They were based on details from the photos mentioned above, plus some so-so sketches and information the NAM supplied me privately in '88.
I guess I'm doing better, I have the photos of the 1846 Ft. Gary bootee right here. Looked close under a glass and lo and behold the hobs, which are cheek by jowl, and only run from the joint-line to the toe, look like cube-heads with a very slight taper, and the very corners faceted or radiused. The sole view shows one row around the very sole edge, joint to joint, an extra row across the toe, and three parallel rows down the forepart. The heel is missing, so no idea, bit I'd guess that was hobbed too or had and iron rim.
Parks Canada has another bootee, too, from Ft. Wellington, which is dated 1860s. It's a tad taller than the Ft. Gary bootee, and double-row pegged, no hobs, just maybe square cut nails(s) in the heel. The ones across the toe look like they might be those zinc cut nails, because they're a different color in the B&W photo than the pegs, but I'm just guessing on that. There's another bootee, no date, from York Factory site, pegged, no hobs visible in photo--check with Stephen Davis, Ottawa on the details.
The other two British boots, the M1861 "universal pattern", and the 1856 Coldstream Guards' pair @ NAM I have photos of as well. The 1856 has smaller-headed round domed hobs, with gaps in between, and an iron heel rim. There's one row around the edge, joint to joint, with six rows in the forepart that stop shy of the toe except the 6th, which runs up and forms a double row across the toe. The M1861 has no hobs, just a double row of cut-bills, looks unworn, and has an iron heel-rim.
Regarding my pen and inks drawings, I'm curious, however, how you came by copies? If they're helpful to your research, I have no problem with you using them, I'm just wondering how you got copies. I'm pretty proprietary with my schematic footwear drawings until they're published, and those two haven't been. And I can only think of one person I shared them with, with the understanding they were for his private use, not distribution. The drawings I made of both bootees should be marked in the lower right-hand corner (C) 12 April 1988. They were based on details from the photos mentioned above, plus some so-so sketches and information the NAM supplied me privately in '88.
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petemonahan
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Re: Looking for...
Al
I've got the Ft grry photo too, now, and I see what you mean about the hob shape, size and pattern. My recollection was based on the side view, which is not very clear and suggested larger hobs than are in fact the case.
When I first broached the question of 1812 "beef boots" to you - probably 2-3 years ago now - you sensibly sugested that I check with the NAM in London. Which I did, and they sent me phtocopies of two photos of the booties and the two drawings which were, as you say, marked "C 1988".
I recall thinking and saying "I've come full circle here!" I have not and would not publish the copies of course and if you like I can destroy them. I found them too and note that both have the copyright and one is stamped "This material for private study by assigned individuals only..." As I say, mu firm recollection is that I was sent them by someone at the Nat. Army Museum, though I apparently was not clever enough to record the source at the time.
I hope this doesn't create a serious problem for you: I can fully appreciate your not wanting your work bandied about promiscuosly, especially if you haven't published it yet yourself! Let me know whaty you would like me to do and repeated thanks for your patience.
Peter
I've got the Ft grry photo too, now, and I see what you mean about the hob shape, size and pattern. My recollection was based on the side view, which is not very clear and suggested larger hobs than are in fact the case.
When I first broached the question of 1812 "beef boots" to you - probably 2-3 years ago now - you sensibly sugested that I check with the NAM in London. Which I did, and they sent me phtocopies of two photos of the booties and the two drawings which were, as you say, marked "C 1988".
I recall thinking and saying "I've come full circle here!" I have not and would not publish the copies of course and if you like I can destroy them. I found them too and note that both have the copyright and one is stamped "This material for private study by assigned individuals only..." As I say, mu firm recollection is that I was sent them by someone at the Nat. Army Museum, though I apparently was not clever enough to record the source at the time.
I hope this doesn't create a serious problem for you: I can fully appreciate your not wanting your work bandied about promiscuosly, especially if you haven't published it yet yourself! Let me know whaty you would like me to do and repeated thanks for your patience.
Peter
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petemonahan
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Re: Looking for...
Al
A "duh" moment! Just occurred to me: did YOU send me the drawings? It would be, if I may say so, in character for you.
P
A "duh" moment! Just occurred to me: did YOU send me the drawings? It would be, if I may say so, in character for you.
P
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das
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Re: Looking for...
Peter,
Glad you saw what I saw in the photos. Well, if NAM sent them, that screws my theory on how they got out. I must have sent NAM copies as a courtesy for sending me their data and photos. Usually the (C) and "this material...assigned individuals only..." keeps things safe.
Certainly no problem as far as you're having them is concerned. Use the information and make good repros/dispel many myths/improve reinactor footwear authenticity, just please cite the "source" and don't publish, further copy or distribute them without my permission. If you start making millions off them (US not Canadian), we might talk about royalties
Did I send you the copies? Hummm, I think I recall the last time those drawings were copied for an individual was c.1991 or '92, and it was someone here at CW. June Swann got copies in '88, before she retired from NCM, but June's always religious about the copyright thingies.
Glad you saw what I saw in the photos. Well, if NAM sent them, that screws my theory on how they got out. I must have sent NAM copies as a courtesy for sending me their data and photos. Usually the (C) and "this material...assigned individuals only..." keeps things safe.
Certainly no problem as far as you're having them is concerned. Use the information and make good repros/dispel many myths/improve reinactor footwear authenticity, just please cite the "source" and don't publish, further copy or distribute them without my permission. If you start making millions off them (US not Canadian), we might talk about royalties
Did I send you the copies? Hummm, I think I recall the last time those drawings were copied for an individual was c.1991 or '92, and it was someone here at CW. June Swann got copies in '88, before she retired from NCM, but June's always religious about the copyright thingies.
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dw
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Re: Looking for...
All,
I have a letter and a catalogue from Mr. Colin Barnsley of Woodware Repetitions. I was impressed by the variety of tools represented in the catalogue especially considering the short time that Mr. Barnsley has had to "pick up the pieces," so to speak, of the Geo. Barnsley operation.
Woodware is offering a number of hammers, including a London Pattern hammer in at least one size, curved sewing awls, knives, lasting pincers and at least one clogger's race--a tool that I am very fond of for making my own welting. Still missing are bulldog pincers although Mr. Barnsley seems very determined to add that to his company's repertoire. He needs a pair of bulldogs to copy...preferably a Geo. Barnsley pattern or perhaps an old pair of Christianson's would suffice (they were very similar...the main difference being in the size of the wooden handle)....but *not* a USM style. Mr. Barnsley has one very generous offer in that regard (from a CC member) but needs a confirmation...or a "second," so to speak.
Overall, I think anyone interested in good quality shoemaking tools--someone just getting into the business, perhaps--would not go wrong to at least write or email Woodware Repetitions for a catalogue. There are not many outfits in the world, nevermind in the States, that are interested in catering to the bespoke Shoe Trade.
The Woodware snail mail address was posted previously, but here it is again:
Colin Barnsley
Woodware Repetitions Ltd.
47 Mowbray Street
Sheffield S3 8EN
England
T: 011+44+114+272-6060
...the email address is: cjbarnsley@hotmail.com
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
frommer@bootmaker.com
http://www.bootmaker.com
"Little Jack Dandiprat, in a white petticoat,
The longer he lives the shorter he grows."
I have a letter and a catalogue from Mr. Colin Barnsley of Woodware Repetitions. I was impressed by the variety of tools represented in the catalogue especially considering the short time that Mr. Barnsley has had to "pick up the pieces," so to speak, of the Geo. Barnsley operation.
Woodware is offering a number of hammers, including a London Pattern hammer in at least one size, curved sewing awls, knives, lasting pincers and at least one clogger's race--a tool that I am very fond of for making my own welting. Still missing are bulldog pincers although Mr. Barnsley seems very determined to add that to his company's repertoire. He needs a pair of bulldogs to copy...preferably a Geo. Barnsley pattern or perhaps an old pair of Christianson's would suffice (they were very similar...the main difference being in the size of the wooden handle)....but *not* a USM style. Mr. Barnsley has one very generous offer in that regard (from a CC member) but needs a confirmation...or a "second," so to speak.
Overall, I think anyone interested in good quality shoemaking tools--someone just getting into the business, perhaps--would not go wrong to at least write or email Woodware Repetitions for a catalogue. There are not many outfits in the world, nevermind in the States, that are interested in catering to the bespoke Shoe Trade.
The Woodware snail mail address was posted previously, but here it is again:
Colin Barnsley
Woodware Repetitions Ltd.
47 Mowbray Street
Sheffield S3 8EN
England
T: 011+44+114+272-6060
...the email address is: cjbarnsley@hotmail.com
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
frommer@bootmaker.com
http://www.bootmaker.com
"Little Jack Dandiprat, in a white petticoat,
The longer he lives the shorter he grows."
-
lancepryor
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Re: Looking for...
I have been eavesdropping on the Colloquy for a few months now –for which many thanks! –, and I have some questions about sources and recommended supplies. My interest is in learning to produce handmade shoes rather than boots, at least for now. I have spent some time with a fantastic “maker” in London, and I also observed a closer while there. I am going to be picking up a Landis L today in Boston – my thanks to Robert Elferink for posting the information here on the Colloquy. I will be posting a sequence of questions over the next few days, and I would be grateful for any direction you can give me.
Also, I am considering ordering things from Barnsley/Woodware Repetitions (I have their new catalog), so I would be willing to consolidate orders and act as the central person for a Consortium; there would be no charge for this service, I would simply pass on the material costs and postage/packaging. If anyone is interested, contact me at lancepryor-at-hotmail.com (substitute the “@” for the word “-at-”).
Now, my questions:
Insole and sole leather: I am interested in the Bakers or Rendenbach leather. Is there anywhere to get it here in the USA? What would be the typical thickness or “iron” for these for shoes? If neither are available, suggestions as to the best available domestic products?
Upper leather and lining leather: I am interested in calfskin for uppers. I am also interested in “crust” finished calf, and veg. tanned upper materials. Any ideas as to the best sources here in the US? What is the best type of lining material for dress shoes?
Awls: I will be trying to learn both hand- and machine-sewing of the outsole. For the former, I believe I need a square awl. Are these the “sewing” awls sold by Barnsley? If not, any recommendations? I was considering commissioning some by Dick Anderson, but he wasn’t able to understand what I was talking about – I’m sure that’s my fault, not his.
Thank You,
Lance Pryor
Also, I am considering ordering things from Barnsley/Woodware Repetitions (I have their new catalog), so I would be willing to consolidate orders and act as the central person for a Consortium; there would be no charge for this service, I would simply pass on the material costs and postage/packaging. If anyone is interested, contact me at lancepryor-at-hotmail.com (substitute the “@” for the word “-at-”).
Now, my questions:
Insole and sole leather: I am interested in the Bakers or Rendenbach leather. Is there anywhere to get it here in the USA? What would be the typical thickness or “iron” for these for shoes? If neither are available, suggestions as to the best available domestic products?
Upper leather and lining leather: I am interested in calfskin for uppers. I am also interested in “crust” finished calf, and veg. tanned upper materials. Any ideas as to the best sources here in the US? What is the best type of lining material for dress shoes?
Awls: I will be trying to learn both hand- and machine-sewing of the outsole. For the former, I believe I need a square awl. Are these the “sewing” awls sold by Barnsley? If not, any recommendations? I was considering commissioning some by Dick Anderson, but he wasn’t able to understand what I was talking about – I’m sure that’s my fault, not his.
Thank You,
Lance Pryor
-
dw
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Re: Looking for...
Lance,
Welcome to the Crispin Colloquy.
It's hard to answer your questions definitively. But a few ideas...Rendenbach soles are available in the US. Unfortunately every supplier that I know of who carries these, carries only grain-side stamped soles. I know Rendenbach would prefer to market them this way, but personally I won't use them if they are stamped on the grainside...anymore than I would wear a Nike or a Coke t-shirt. But not just because of the branding...more because I like to do a clear forepart finish on my outsoles and cannot eliminate the stamp without damaging the grain. Baker can be bought only in quantity and we have done that via a Buyer's Consortium although only one or two outsole bends were included in a larger order on insole shoulders. The Baker outsole seems promising but not quite as firm as the Rendenbach.
That said, there is a possibility that a finder I am talking with will be able to convince Rendenbach that he intends to carry enough stock that it will be worth Rendenbach's while to produce flesh side stamped soles. We should know the outcome of such discussions with in several weeks.
With regard to awls...for outsole stitching the traditional awl is the square awl. the square awl is widest in the vertical plane whereas the sewring all is widest in the horizontal plane.
I didn't answer all your questions, maybe didn't even answer any to your satisfaction but I hope that helps
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
frommer@bootmaker.com
http://www.bootmaker.com
"Little Jack Dandiprat, in a white petticoat,
The longer he lives the shorter he grows."
Welcome to the Crispin Colloquy.
It's hard to answer your questions definitively. But a few ideas...Rendenbach soles are available in the US. Unfortunately every supplier that I know of who carries these, carries only grain-side stamped soles. I know Rendenbach would prefer to market them this way, but personally I won't use them if they are stamped on the grainside...anymore than I would wear a Nike or a Coke t-shirt. But not just because of the branding...more because I like to do a clear forepart finish on my outsoles and cannot eliminate the stamp without damaging the grain. Baker can be bought only in quantity and we have done that via a Buyer's Consortium although only one or two outsole bends were included in a larger order on insole shoulders. The Baker outsole seems promising but not quite as firm as the Rendenbach.
That said, there is a possibility that a finder I am talking with will be able to convince Rendenbach that he intends to carry enough stock that it will be worth Rendenbach's while to produce flesh side stamped soles. We should know the outcome of such discussions with in several weeks.
With regard to awls...for outsole stitching the traditional awl is the square awl. the square awl is widest in the vertical plane whereas the sewring all is widest in the horizontal plane.
I didn't answer all your questions, maybe didn't even answer any to your satisfaction but I hope that helps
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
frommer@bootmaker.com
http://www.bootmaker.com
"Little Jack Dandiprat, in a white petticoat,
The longer he lives the shorter he grows."
-
dw
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Re: Looking for...
Lance,
Just a follow-up on the "square" or stitching awls...if you or Dick need a closer look, take a gander at these photos:
three square awls
sewing awls on left, stitching awls to right
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
frommer@bootmaker.com
http://www.bootmaker.com
"Little Jack Dandiprat, in a white petticoat,
The longer he lives the shorter he grows."
Just a follow-up on the "square" or stitching awls...if you or Dick need a closer look, take a gander at these photos:
three square awls
sewing awls on left, stitching awls to right
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
frommer@bootmaker.com
http://www.bootmaker.com
"Little Jack Dandiprat, in a white petticoat,
The longer he lives the shorter he grows."
-
sorrell
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Re: Looking for...
All,
A bootmaker friend of mine needs to make a pair of boots for one of his customers using all vegetable tanned leather. He called to ask me if I knew where to start and I wasn't very helpful, except I did remember that being discussed on this forum. Can someone give me some suggestions for who he might contact to order vegetable tanned top and lining leather?
Lisa
A bootmaker friend of mine needs to make a pair of boots for one of his customers using all vegetable tanned leather. He called to ask me if I knew where to start and I wasn't very helpful, except I did remember that being discussed on this forum. Can someone give me some suggestions for who he might contact to order vegetable tanned top and lining leather?
Lisa
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rileycraig
- 2
- Posts: 61
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- Full Name: Riley G.
Re: Looking for...
Lisa,
You should have no problem finding veg. tan leather. I carry several different weights at my Tandy store, but Leather Factory also has it, as well as E. C. Leather, in Oklahoma City, and various others.
Hope this will help!
Good Bootmaking,
Riley
You should have no problem finding veg. tan leather. I carry several different weights at my Tandy store, but Leather Factory also has it, as well as E. C. Leather, in Oklahoma City, and various others.
Hope this will help!
Good Bootmaking,
Riley
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dw
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Re: Looking for...
Lisa,
You may not need to go totally veg. I've had several customers who needed veg because of chrome allergies. Generally, but probably not always, a totally veg lining will do the trick. As long as no chrome is touching the skin.
Tom Eberle ( M&T corp 866-646-9900) sells a beautiful veg lining that can be used for both vamp lining and top lining.
As for veg top leather...since Greg Hochhauser quit bringing in the stuff he was importing...I just don't know what to tell you. I use Beaumont from Horween but that's a veg and chrome retan. Sheridan Leathers has some veg kangaroo and Hardtke carries a veg roo lining and a oiled veg roo for vamps and tops. Al might know someone making or carrying a veg calf suitable for a dress boot but other than that you might have to go overseas. Maybe inquire through Goetz.
And yes, there's lots of veg leather out there...the real trick is finding a leather that is firm enough without being boardy, and dyed (maybe drum dyed and/or struck through)well enough...and not just in black...to make a decent vamp and top. Using tooling or saddle leathers doesn't have all that much appeal, as far as I'm concerned.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
frommer@bootmaker.com
http://www.bootmaker.com
"Little Jack Dandiprat, in a white petticoat,
The longer he lives the shorter he grows."
You may not need to go totally veg. I've had several customers who needed veg because of chrome allergies. Generally, but probably not always, a totally veg lining will do the trick. As long as no chrome is touching the skin.
Tom Eberle ( M&T corp 866-646-9900) sells a beautiful veg lining that can be used for both vamp lining and top lining.
As for veg top leather...since Greg Hochhauser quit bringing in the stuff he was importing...I just don't know what to tell you. I use Beaumont from Horween but that's a veg and chrome retan. Sheridan Leathers has some veg kangaroo and Hardtke carries a veg roo lining and a oiled veg roo for vamps and tops. Al might know someone making or carrying a veg calf suitable for a dress boot but other than that you might have to go overseas. Maybe inquire through Goetz.
And yes, there's lots of veg leather out there...the real trick is finding a leather that is firm enough without being boardy, and dyed (maybe drum dyed and/or struck through)well enough...and not just in black...to make a decent vamp and top. Using tooling or saddle leathers doesn't have all that much appeal, as far as I'm concerned.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
frommer@bootmaker.com
http://www.bootmaker.com
"Little Jack Dandiprat, in a white petticoat,
The longer he lives the shorter he grows."
-
erickgeer
Re: Looking for...
When I was a student, a classmate bought a vegetable tannned leather from Horweens - it was very soft, as opposed to the tooling leathers from Tandy - if this was pure veg, it was very nice - it would probably need to be hand colored. DW - I think you have recomended speaking to Skip Horween before, and I think he may be able to help on this. I have never looked for pure veg from them for myself, so no first hand experience.
I think Horweens has a toll free number, but this is what I have:
(773) 772-2026
Hope this helps,
Erick
I think Horweens has a toll free number, but this is what I have:
(773) 772-2026
Hope this helps,
Erick
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das
- Seanchaidh
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Re: Looking for...
Lisa,
W. Pierce & Bro. in NYC used to handle some great Italian veg-tanned calfs, in colors, called "Art Lord". I haven't bought any for a few years, but you might try them for swatches of what they have.
If you don't mind importing, try Tony Crack in Northampton, England. At least I know he has the best veg linings I've seen. Ask for samples, and for the "Straw kip" lining.
John Fong in SF, CA gets some wonderful, heavy/firm, 100% veg-roo in black and basic browns too, from time to time.
Good luck. And once you try all veg, you may never go back :D
W. Pierce & Bro. in NYC used to handle some great Italian veg-tanned calfs, in colors, called "Art Lord". I haven't bought any for a few years, but you might try them for swatches of what they have.
If you don't mind importing, try Tony Crack in Northampton, England. At least I know he has the best veg linings I've seen. Ask for samples, and for the "Straw kip" lining.
John Fong in SF, CA gets some wonderful, heavy/firm, 100% veg-roo in black and basic browns too, from time to time.
Good luck. And once you try all veg, you may never go back :D
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sorrell
- 6
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- Full Name: Lisa Sorrell
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Re: Looking for...
Thanks, guys! He's supposed to call me bright and early this morning to see if I'll be any more helpful now. Thanks to you, I should have enough information now to get him started.
Lisa
Lisa
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lancepryor
- 7
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Re: Looking for...
A few more questions for the experts....
Who in the US sells the Rendenbach soles? What domestic brand(s) of outsoles are the best?
Linen/hemp thread for handsewing welts/outsoles. What is the current availability and quality of these? Source(s)?
Cements/adhesives: what is the current view of the best types of cement/adhesive for stiffening the toe puffs and counters (I plan to use leather counters and puffs)? What about for attaching the soles?
Leather Splitter: I need a splitter for my soles, heel lifts, perhaps insoles and welts. Any recommendations for a splitter. Is the CS Osborne splitter satisfactory? If not, other ideas/recommendations?
Thanks for your thoughts.
Who in the US sells the Rendenbach soles? What domestic brand(s) of outsoles are the best?
Linen/hemp thread for handsewing welts/outsoles. What is the current availability and quality of these? Source(s)?
Cements/adhesives: what is the current view of the best types of cement/adhesive for stiffening the toe puffs and counters (I plan to use leather counters and puffs)? What about for attaching the soles?
Leather Splitter: I need a splitter for my soles, heel lifts, perhaps insoles and welts. Any recommendations for a splitter. Is the CS Osborne splitter satisfactory? If not, other ideas/recommendations?
Thanks for your thoughts.
-
dw
- Seanchaidh
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Re: Looking for...
Lance,
[LONG] Welcome to the Crispin Colloquy.
O. Baltor sells Rendenbach and I *may* be able to recommend another supplier in a day or so. Trouble with Most of the Rendenbach being distributed in the US, is that it is branded/stamped on the grainside. Because the grainside is so fragile with regard to final finish, on the Rendenbach, it is hard to remove it (deliberately made so, IMO) without damaging the soles. This makes you and your boots a walking billboard for Rendenbach. I'd rather not, thanks, anyway.
I use the Italian...S&R(?)...for a good many of my outsoles. Be careful, though, they're painted. And sometimes the paint can hide flaws. I wash the grain of the soles with ammonia and water before I put them into soak.
I've yet to run across a domestically tanned soling leather that 1) wore well, 2) didn't absorb water at a prodigeous rate.
Linen and hemp yarn are very hard to find. do a search for linen and somewhere in the last six months or so you'll find that this was discussed and Al and Jake both came up with suppliers...overseas.
Press Cement is what I use to stifen toe boxes (puffs) and I don't stiffen counters at all. Again a keyword search will yield up addresses and phone numbers. I think the best source of Press cement at this time is MidWest(?) Chemical.
All purpose, both solvent and water based, for soles.
The Osbourne splitter, if it is the one I'm thinking about, is *not* suitable for splitting soles or heel lifts. For that you need a Landis or...I think Auto-soler amde one...there's several brands out there that you can buy, used and in good/functional condition.
Hope this helps....
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
[LONG] Welcome to the Crispin Colloquy.
O. Baltor sells Rendenbach and I *may* be able to recommend another supplier in a day or so. Trouble with Most of the Rendenbach being distributed in the US, is that it is branded/stamped on the grainside. Because the grainside is so fragile with regard to final finish, on the Rendenbach, it is hard to remove it (deliberately made so, IMO) without damaging the soles. This makes you and your boots a walking billboard for Rendenbach. I'd rather not, thanks, anyway.
I use the Italian...S&R(?)...for a good many of my outsoles. Be careful, though, they're painted. And sometimes the paint can hide flaws. I wash the grain of the soles with ammonia and water before I put them into soak.
I've yet to run across a domestically tanned soling leather that 1) wore well, 2) didn't absorb water at a prodigeous rate.
Linen and hemp yarn are very hard to find. do a search for linen and somewhere in the last six months or so you'll find that this was discussed and Al and Jake both came up with suppliers...overseas.
Press Cement is what I use to stifen toe boxes (puffs) and I don't stiffen counters at all. Again a keyword search will yield up addresses and phone numbers. I think the best source of Press cement at this time is MidWest(?) Chemical.
All purpose, both solvent and water based, for soles.
The Osbourne splitter, if it is the one I'm thinking about, is *not* suitable for splitting soles or heel lifts. For that you need a Landis or...I think Auto-soler amde one...there's several brands out there that you can buy, used and in good/functional condition.
Hope this helps....
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
-
dw
- Seanchaidh
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Re: Looking for...
Lance, all,
Ok!! Here's some good news!!
Ruby Leather in Milwaukie, is gioing to be carrying Rendenbach soles with the brand on the fleshside. I know that a number of people exporessed interest when I queried the Forum on this and I would recommend that you get your order into Randy Tate at Ruby Leather, 1.888.805.0362. His initial shipment which will be available around the 17 of May will be 24 dozen. These will go fast if the interest expressed here bears fruit. And if we expect to have this kind of quality available to us, we have to support those suppliers willing to go out on a limb and invest in and bring in new products. Actually there are only 22 dozen available as I've already got an order in.
Randy is also bringing in some 8 iron Rendenbach insole leather--bends or shoulders, I'm not sure which.
For those of you going to the Sheridan show, Ruby Leather will be there and offering the Rendenbach--what's left.
In passing, I thought it interesting that while transcribing Golding, volume VI, (almost done ) I ran across a reference to valonia tanned outsoling as having superior wear characteristics. This is, of course, what Rendenbach is--valonia tanned and left in the pit for at least a year.
Anyway, give Ruby Leather a call...
[Disclaimer: I do not work for Ruby Leather and have no financial connections to them. I make no profit by posting this info. I simply encouraged this supplier to take a chance--for selfish reasons (I like the Rendenbach) and the good of the Trade]
--
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
Ok!! Here's some good news!!
Ruby Leather in Milwaukie, is gioing to be carrying Rendenbach soles with the brand on the fleshside. I know that a number of people exporessed interest when I queried the Forum on this and I would recommend that you get your order into Randy Tate at Ruby Leather, 1.888.805.0362. His initial shipment which will be available around the 17 of May will be 24 dozen. These will go fast if the interest expressed here bears fruit. And if we expect to have this kind of quality available to us, we have to support those suppliers willing to go out on a limb and invest in and bring in new products. Actually there are only 22 dozen available as I've already got an order in.
Randy is also bringing in some 8 iron Rendenbach insole leather--bends or shoulders, I'm not sure which.
For those of you going to the Sheridan show, Ruby Leather will be there and offering the Rendenbach--what's left.
In passing, I thought it interesting that while transcribing Golding, volume VI, (almost done ) I ran across a reference to valonia tanned outsoling as having superior wear characteristics. This is, of course, what Rendenbach is--valonia tanned and left in the pit for at least a year.
Anyway, give Ruby Leather a call...
[Disclaimer: I do not work for Ruby Leather and have no financial connections to them. I make no profit by posting this info. I simply encouraged this supplier to take a chance--for selfish reasons (I like the Rendenbach) and the good of the Trade]
--
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
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jake
- 7
- Posts: 544
- Joined: Wed Dec 30, 1998 7:01 pm
- Full Name: Jake
- Location: Mountain View, Arkansas, USA
Re: Looking for...
Dee-Dubb,
Good for you! (the rest of us will benefit from your hard work) Good job, and Thank You!
I'll give Ruby Leather a call tomorrow.
Adios
Good for you! (the rest of us will benefit from your hard work) Good job, and Thank You!
I'll give Ruby Leather a call tomorrow.
Adios
-
erickgeer
Re: Looking for...
DW,
I hope I can get to try out that redenbach.
You mentioned Italian soling - I have been wondering for a while what you or anyone else thought about the stuff. I have experienced the Flaws the surface was covering. I was using it for a while, because it was all my finder could get for a time - I never found it very pleasant to work with - is there a trick to using it? What kind of tannage is it?
I have a question about insoling which I will post elsewhere
Erick
I hope I can get to try out that redenbach.
You mentioned Italian soling - I have been wondering for a while what you or anyone else thought about the stuff. I have experienced the Flaws the surface was covering. I was using it for a while, because it was all my finder could get for a time - I never found it very pleasant to work with - is there a trick to using it? What kind of tannage is it?
I have a question about insoling which I will post elsewhere
Erick
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dw
- Seanchaidh
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Re: Looking for...
Erick,
I like the Italian stuff OK, I guess. As you say, it's not always easy to work with. Clean the paint off with ammonia before cutting and/or soaking. When it is very goo...and the grain is clean...it finishes up better than the Rendenbach in my opinion. I don't think it wears as well though. Lots of sugar in it.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
I like the Italian stuff OK, I guess. As you say, it's not always easy to work with. Clean the paint off with ammonia before cutting and/or soaking. When it is very goo...and the grain is clean...it finishes up better than the Rendenbach in my opinion. I don't think it wears as well though. Lots of sugar in it.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
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dw
- Seanchaidh
- Posts: 5830
- Joined: Wed Jan 01, 1997 10:00 am
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Re: Looking for...
Jake,
Hey, like I said, I'm selfish. What's good for the Trade is good for me. So no problemo, glad to do it.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC
Hey, like I said, I'm selfish. What's good for the Trade is good for me. So no problemo, glad to do it.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC