Welt

Got any great sources for leather? Tools? Machinery? Looking for sources?
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Re: Welt

#26 Post by das » Thu Feb 21, 2008 3:36 pm

Marcell,

Yes they occasionally have genuine horse-shell cordovan, however, all the cordovan is tanned/curried by Horween in Chicago, and they may have it fresher. I've seen brittle dry-rotted cordovan being sold the past few years here, so be sure it's fresh Grade A.

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Re: Welt

#27 Post by gshoes » Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:35 pm

Larry,

Thanks for your wonderful advice on making my welt. I like the idea of having more to trim off instead of trying to glue some more on. Can you clarify one thing for me. I am a little confused when you talk about side welts. Is that a seperate piece that is sewed on?

Geri

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Re: Welt

#28 Post by gshoes » Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:46 pm

Lance,

Thanks to you as well. Thats another piece in my puzzle.

Do you happen to know what soft rolled and hard rolled refers to?
I am glad that you mentioned just how many welts that you can get from one horse strip. I had no idea. I actually love the trip into the city to visit the Horweens and if I go I will now buy less than 5 strips and maybe I will pick up something else too. Its always fun to be there.

Marcel was talking in another forum about using press cement on the bottoms of the shoes, Does anyone know what that is called in the states and for what else it is used for?

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Re: Welt

#29 Post by big_larry » Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:40 pm

Geri,

I will explain how I make a side welt. I make a 4 piece western or cowboy boot. The tops cut into the front and back pieces and a fancy design sewen on them. I cut a liner that is just a very bit larger, and trimmed after the construction is completed. I lay the front and the back inside out back to back after the bottom parts are sewen on. In between the two layers I sandwitch in a strip of horsehide strip even with the edge. During the measurements I add 1/4 inch extra width on the outside so when I sew up both sides 1/4 inch in from the edge, the fit will be exactly what I wanted.

The next step is to carefully trim the outer edge as close as I dare to the stitched edge without comprimising its ability to hold. After a good soaking I roll and bash the side seam to flatten it out so it won't rub on the side of the foot or leg.

I then turn the construction inside-out or right side out so the liner is inside and get it ready to last. After lasting I brace the boot top or stretch it mildely into shape and after the shank and inter parts are in I put the sole on. The horse hide hanging out on each side of the boot is then trimmed, leaving about 1/8 of an inch to form what is called the "side welt." Many boot makers use leather ribbing for the side welt. I think that theoretically the side welt protects the stitched area and it is also a tradition.

This is just a "thumb nail sketch" but if you will search the archives there are some really good pictures that will make it a lot more clear. After you make a pair of western style boots for yourself it all will become much more clear.

I do wish you well, Larry Peterson

marcell

Re: Welt

#30 Post by marcell » Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:38 am

For the welt I usually buy a big piece of a soft, veg tanned leather, 2-2.2 mm thick. Take my strape cutter () made it Image ) and cut 1,8 cm wide strapes.
Skive it - ready. Then I use it as you see on my videos. (and I never would be able to describe Image

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Re: Welt

#31 Post by big_larry » Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:46 pm

This is a picture of a pair of boots I made for myself, until my grand son tried them on and seeing how we are identicle in boot size, he proceeded to talk me out of them. I am posting them to show Geri' the horsehide side welt. This is my first attempt at sewing a 7 row top stitching and making mule ears.

I am psychologically preparing for criticism and just in case I get my feelings hurt, I want you all to know that I recover quickly and for the past few years I can't remember one day to the next. No grudge!
7072.jpg
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Re: Welt

#32 Post by paul » Tue Feb 26, 2008 5:03 am

Larry,

Hard to see your side welt to comment on it.

But 7 rows! You've got more sand than I do! I'd have trouble sittin' still that long! Good on you. From what I can see, looks like nothin' to critsize.

I will offer this about the mule ears though.
You might try pulling your lining tighter at the top when laying your leathers together. That'll force the fold to remain folded. It looks as if there is some of that, because I can see a curvature to the left boots lateral pull strap.

Try this. Fold your lining first, then holding it in the folded position, fold the outer layer down over the top of it, thee you might even tap it with your hammer a bit. That'll help the pulls to lay against the side of the boot.

Keep up the good work.

Paul

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Re: Welt

#33 Post by admin » Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:56 am

Larry,

We appreciate the time and effort you have taken to reduce the size of your photos. The moderators like folks such as yourself.

However!! This photo is maybe too small? I don't know what program you are using to reduce the size of your photos but photos can be 6x4 at 72dpi or 640x480 and they will be just the right size.

I think your tan two-tone boot in Test was about the right size.

Email me if you are having problems

Emmett

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Re: Welt

#34 Post by big_larry » Tue Feb 26, 2008 10:35 am

Paul and Emmet,

Thank you for the feedback and the counsel. I will follow good counsel anytime I can get it!

I am not exactly sure of what I am doing but I think it will become more clear as time goes on.

Emmett, I downloaded Jpegger after getting a kind promt from a friend, and I am still learning how to best use it.

Paul, thank you for the counsel on the mule ears. I will definately take your counsel and make them suckers lay down next time. I am moving 4 pair, two pair of packers and two pair of western style boots, at a time. This allows me to really let the glue dry and to keep busy while the casing and drying takes place. One of the western style boots will need mule ears and I will probably post them to see if I have been able to make them like you suggegst.

Thank's again, Larry Peterson

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Re: Welt

#35 Post by large_shoemaker_at_large » Tue Feb 26, 2008 5:53 pm

Hi Larry
Nice boot's EH!

I want to see the Packer's when done.
As for the picture thing I run Mac so I couldn't help much but Admin and your friend will get your pixels in a row.
Regards
Brendan

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Re: Welt

#36 Post by gshoes » Tue Feb 26, 2008 6:43 pm

Larry,

Wow! The boots look great. I can't even see the side welt though because the pic is too small. I have never heard of mules ears but I am guessing that those are what you use to pull the boots on with? You also mentioned 7 rows of stitches, Does that mean that you stitched 7 concentric rows around the design up the leg as decoration? And is this ever done by hand? I cant wait to see closeups.

This is a dumb question but are boots ever made without a side welt?

Yesterday I purchased 3 pairs of old cowboy boots at an auction and got to see the side welt up close and in person. I bought them originally to disect them and see how they go together, but they are true works of art and at least 2 of them I just can not destroy. One of them needs a new sole because the threads are wearing through. I might play with resoling those.

geri

washek

Re: Welt

#37 Post by washek » Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:47 pm

I have difficulty finding a good quality welt. I need about 10 feet of 3/4 inch wide welt in natural color. I would also like to get leather toe cups and heel stiffeners which are already skived. If you know where I can buy these materials, please, let me now. Thank you,

Washek

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Re: Welt

#38 Post by dearbone » Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:51 pm

I have been finding it getting harder and harder to find good welt strips, paying close to $3 a yard for ready made welt is a good price, but not getting the quality leather or tannage makes it a waste of time and money, i have recently decided to make my own welt, all you need is some good leather,shoulder or something else and a groover to dig a thread channel in the flesh side(you can also use knife to make groove) and a skive the top(grain side) a little and there you have your welt. Below some welt i recently made.
8283.jpg

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Re: Welt

#39 Post by j_johansen » Thu Dec 04, 2008 11:11 pm

Washek,
I too make my own welt. I get horse hide welt material from Horween leather. If you can source a finder that has their product in stock it will be much easier than ordering directly from Horween. I also make toe puffs and heel stiffeners from insoling leather, if you don't have a 5 in 1 or finisher you could skive them with a stationary belt sander
Hope that helps, J.

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Re: Welt

#40 Post by chuck_deats » Fri Dec 05, 2008 8:01 am

Washek,
You can get usable welt from Southern Leather in Denver, Colorado. Probably other Southern Leather stores. A little darker than Nasser's pictures and you may have to work around some splices. They also have heel counters, but they are too thin for my taste in bootmaking. You are on your own for toe puffs. Shipping will add to the price.
Chuck

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Re: Welt

#41 Post by lancepryor » Fri Dec 05, 2008 9:38 am

Washek:

Siegel leather in California carries the Horween horse butts, at least when they can get it in stock.

If you do order some, make sure to get the 'soft rolled' version. The 'hard rolled' butts are very dense and hard to sew.

There has been a seller on e-bay listing leather heel counters and toe puffs, though he doesn't have any listings now that I can find.

Good luck.
Lance

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Re: Welt

#42 Post by das » Fri Dec 05, 2008 10:04 am

All,

I've been having pretty bad luck with Horween's horse for welts. I used to love the stuff, but in the last year or two all I seem to get seems very stiff, dry, and cuts-through like cheese when you pull the stitches in (by-hand) when stitching the sole. Anybody else having similar problems?

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Re: Welt

#43 Post by lancepryor » Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:12 am

Washek:

You can also order welt strips from Bakers in England. They are perhaps 24 inches long by 1.5 inches wide, so each strip is good for a pair of shoes (or perhaps even 2 pairs of boots if welting only joint to joint?). Since they are oak-bark tanned they are the same color as Bakers insole and outsole leather, i.e. a medium brown.

Given you don't need to much of the stuff, I would think Baker's could use the regular post to send the welt strips, so postage shouldn't be too expensive.

Lance

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Re: Welt

#44 Post by romango » Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:57 pm

I'd be interested in getting some of the Baker welt. Are you suggesting we put an order together as a group? If so, count me in.

washek

Re: Welt

#45 Post by washek » Fri Dec 05, 2008 1:24 pm

Thank you all very much. Your advice is most helpful. I am only an amateur, and there are many things I do not know. Since my skills with knife are limited, I am trying to get the welts and stiffeners that I do not need to skive.

Thanks again,

Washek

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Re: Welt

#46 Post by relferink » Sun Dec 07, 2008 9:20 pm

Washek,

Remember that a lone amateur built the Ark, a large group of professionals built the Titanic so do not put yourself down as only an amateur. In one respect or another we all are, some have just a little more practice at itImage
I have worked with pre-skived counters from Rendenbach leather. I would not know who carries them in the US but I think a good finder who sells Rendenbach soling can order them. I do like them, good quality and do not need much work if any before you are going to us them. I believe they also have leather toe boxes but have not used those before.
On the welts I do not have anything to offer but there seem to be some good suggestions above.

Rob

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Re: Welt

#47 Post by romango » Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:32 pm

I just received this welt from O. Baltor, which is notable for having stress relief cuts at intervals of 5mm. I don't know if you can see them too well in this photo. Note also somewhat redesigned glue pot.

Maybe these are nothing new but I haven't seen them before and thought I would pass it along.
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Re: Welt

#48 Post by erickgeer » Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:55 pm

Rick,

I think the stormwelt I have has the relief cuts. I don't do welted footwear, so I don't have much experience with it.

I bought several yards of the Barbour stormwelt in black and mahogany several years ago, and never got around to using it.

Erick

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Re: Welt

#49 Post by kieran_ionescu » Sat Dec 26, 2009 11:26 am

This is really more a technique question...

I have been using about 5-6 oz shoulder (2.5mmish) cut into strips and skived on the grain side (for english sewn).

My question is this- Is that heavy enough for the welt? Or, should I be using more like a 3mm thickness? The reason I ask is that it behaves like it is not quite thick enough, I can never get the welt to sit perfectly perpendicular to the feather line. Perhaps it is how I am preparing the insole? Any advice would be much appreciated.

Bests,
Kieran

marcell

Re: Welt

#50 Post by marcell » Sat Dec 26, 2009 12:22 pm

Yes 2,5 is ok. If it doesn't sit well - bad insole, poor lasting, poor stitching, or too wide welt or anything +more. Post a picture and i will help to figure it out.

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