Welt

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Welt

#1 Post by admin » Sun May 05, 2002 11:30 am

On 06 May 2002, 100+/- posts (everything prior to 25 February 2002) were moved to the first CD archive.

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j1a2g3

Re: Welt

#2 Post by j1a2g3 » Sun Nov 19, 2006 4:56 pm

Hello, I am new to this site. I took a 1 week course in shoe making a couple of months ago. I have been trying to find material that would work great for the insole and welt. If anybody has any suggestion I would greatly appreciate your help. Thanks in advance Joel

relferink

Re: Welt

#3 Post by relferink » Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:00 pm

Hi Joel,

Welcome to the colloquy, are you looking for a welt to sew onto or a fake welt, just for cosmetics? I would give a local finder a call, If you are not to far from Philly there is Frankford Leather. I'm quite sure they will have some. 800-245-5555.

Where did you take the shoe making course? Was that your introduction to the fine craft?
May I ask you at your convenience to post to the registry and introduce yourself?

I'm sure there are other people here that have more or possibly better sources.

Rob

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Re: Welt

#4 Post by dw » Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:28 pm

Almost any finder will have welting or you can buy double shoulders of horse from Horween Leathers and strip your own. Very dense, very nice.

Insole shoulders can be purchased from Stevenson-Paxton of Ignacio California.

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j1a2g3

Re: Welt

#5 Post by j1a2g3 » Mon Nov 20, 2006 3:20 pm

Robert and DWFII Thanks for the help.

I went to the ShoeSchool outside Seattle and yes it was my introduction to this fine craft. I would like to end up making double welted men's hiking boots.

If I could pick you brains a little, I would greatly appreciate it. Could you tell me the weight on the double horse and insole shoudlers you use.

I'm using a soling bend 9-10oz (about 1/4 inch) right now for my insole. It's rough going to say the least. Well the insole shoudlers be easier to work with? Macpherson's sold me the bends.

Also DWFII your boots are beautiful. Sorry, Robert, I haven't seen any of your work.

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Re: Welt

#6 Post by dw » Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:02 pm

Joel,

I believe 8 or 9 ounce (can't remember which) is equivalent to 6 iron. 12 iron is considered to be 1/4 inch. The horse strips I buy are 8-9 ounce. The insole shoulders I like are 10-11 iron, but I make boots. Lots of the shoemakers like something more in the neighborhood of 8 or 9 iron...and some want it even thinner--6 iron.

Yes, insole shoulders are much easier to work with and hold the stitch even better ...if you are inseaming by hand. If you are just nailing or gluing, it probably doesn't make much difference although an insole shoulder will give you a better footbed than a back cut. If you are going to use bends, you want to limit the insole blockers to the first eight or nine inches of the belly---don't use butt or back cuts if you can help it.

Thank you for the kind words about my boots.

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j1a2g3

Re: Welt

#7 Post by j1a2g3 » Tue Nov 21, 2006 1:21 pm

DWFII

Thanks, you have been a great help. Joel

j1a2g3

Re: Welt

#8 Post by j1a2g3 » Wed Nov 29, 2006 2:38 pm

DWFFII

I spoke with John Culliton at Horween Leather about 8-9oz Double Horse Shoulders. John told me they only sell 6oz single shoulders, which are around 1 to 1 1/2 square foot in size. Did I misunderstand your pervious post? I need about 24 to 26 inch lenght for a full norwegian welt. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Joel

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Re: Welt

#9 Post by dw » Wed Nov 29, 2006 5:13 pm

Joel,

I buy 8-9 ounce horse strips, not shoulders. I think they may actually come off the butt. That said, if you tell him you're cutting welting from it he should know. If he doesn't, ask to talk to Skip Horween...Skip will know exactly what you are talking about.

Also...just as a reminder, tell whoever you talk to where you got this information. Not to boost me in particular (I don't get no kickback or nuthin' Image )but to keep it first and foremeost in their heads that there is a network out here and that dealing square with one of us is the same as dealing square with all of us. The word gets around, so to speak--that's the message we want to get across.

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shoestring

Re: Welt

#10 Post by shoestring » Thu Nov 30, 2006 1:31 pm

I have only dealt with pre made welts gotten from the finder what's the technique to making one from stratch.
Ed

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Re: Welt

#11 Post by dw » Thu Nov 30, 2006 3:01 pm

Ed,

I cut a strip 9/16" wide the length of the horse strip. I then wet it slightly and groove the flesh side...not too deep...about one-eighth inch from the edge. Then flip it over and using a narrow French Edger, bevel the grain side along the same edge as the groove.

Nothing to it. When you're done it should look just about identical to commercial welt...but it will be much better quality and much denser ...and no splices!

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j1a2g3

Re: Welt

#12 Post by j1a2g3 » Thu Nov 30, 2006 3:37 pm

DWFII

Thanks for the information. I purchased the Horse Strips cut form the butt, and insole shoudlers from Seigel of Calif. on Wednesday. I talked with Steve Seigel for a good 30 minutes and he answered any questions I had. He also said I could send the leather back if it wasn't what I wanted. (they pay the shipping - I live in NJ)

Horween Leather didn't seem to care about my business or answering my questions. I felt like I was a student back in chef school at a food show and none of the vendors wanted to talk with the students. Joel

tomo

Re: Welt

#13 Post by tomo » Thu Nov 30, 2006 4:33 pm

Hi Joel,
I live in New Zealand and buy a lot of my saddlery leather from Seigels and I've always found them great to deal with. Plus that free shipping on orders over $75 is great, except my freight is only down the road to the shipping agent then I pay for the sea freightImage

more power to y'awl.
T

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Re: Welt

#14 Post by dw » Fri Dec 01, 2006 7:55 am

Joel,

Just out of curiousity...what did you get, exactly, by way of insole shoulders from Seigal? What weight?

And what weights did they offer...did you discuss that?

Horween can be hard to deal with. Don't take it personally. I've been dealing with them for twenty some years and they still irritate the heck out of me with their attitude on occasion. However, if you get what you ordered (not 100% guaranteed), you may like it very well. You ask "why deal with them at all?" Good question. But for some things they are, as far as I know, the only source in this country...(who knows about any other?).

Tight Stitches
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j1a2g3

Re: Welt

#15 Post by j1a2g3 » Fri Dec 01, 2006 1:27 pm

DWFFII

I got 8-9oz horse strips cut from the butt. Size roughy 40" x 16".

The insole shoulders are 10-11 irons. Not sure what other sizes they had. I'm as green as they come and not sure what questions I should be asking. I would have bought them from Stevenson and Paxton but they didn't have any in stock at the time. I did order two shoulders from Steve Higgins when they get them in. Steve was very nice and willing to talk with me.

I do have a question DW. What am I looking for or how do I tell I got what I wanted when the Horse Strips and Shoulders arrive?

When I become a little more seasoned I might have better luck with Horween Leather. I think if we all buy from the same purveyors maybe those sources won't dry up.

I also would like to thank the people who run this site. It has been a great help and I don't know what I would have done if I didn't find it. So, thanks a ton.

j1a2g3

Re: Welt

#16 Post by j1a2g3 » Wed Dec 06, 2006 5:33 pm

I justed recieved my Leather from Siegel.

North American Shoulder 9/10oz

Horse Butt Strip - soft rolled 8/9oz
I will try using them as soon as I recieve my stitching haft and awl from Dick Anderson.

Joel

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Re: Welt

#17 Post by dearbone » Tue Oct 16, 2007 4:20 pm

Dear Friends
I am looking for welt leather, If anyone knows a source please let me know.
dearbone, Canada.

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Re: Welt

#18 Post by paul » Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:32 pm

Nasser,

I have been using horse butts from Siegle of California for my welts. It's about 6 to 7 ounce and has been really perfect for my uses.

Their web address is http://www.siegelofca.com/, however, right now their web page is down for maintenance.

I hope that helps.

PK

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Re: Welt

#19 Post by dearbone » Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:43 pm

Thank you Paul, I will call them, Do you hand sew or machine? How is their shipping cost?

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Re: Welt

#20 Post by paul » Thu Oct 18, 2007 3:47 pm

Nasser,

Siegel absorbs the shipping on orders of $75 or more, so there's a deal there.

I stitch my soles on by machine, a Sutton Rapid E. But I imagine whenever I've got the makin' down good, and am ready for a new challenge, I'll take a hand at hand stitchin' my soles. Right now when a boot gets to that point, it's time to finish it up and get started on the next ones.

Good luck,

PK

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Re: Welt

#21 Post by dw » Thu Oct 18, 2007 7:35 pm

I wish I knew what others who may not be using the horse are using for welt. Siegal gets their welting from Horween and Horween has temporarily been cut out of the horse market. The welting I got from them last was only partially tanned. Very difficult to cut, very heavy (and difficult to split evenly). Previous to that I got some that was about five, six ounce when I order my usual 7-8 ounce. And it is too soft.

Anybody have a source for a good, dense, 7-8 ounce veg cow?

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Re: Welt

#22 Post by gshoes » Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:32 am

Hello all. I am about to begin my first pair of hand welted shoes. I have a set of lasts in which none are sized for my feet. I bought them 3 years ago and never looked closely at them. MY BAD. I will alter the length and the joint slightly with built up layers of veg tanned leather and barge cement. Now I am reading about how to cut the welts from DW's instructions given here. I am lucky enough to have Horween leather about 45 minutes away in Chicago and I just got off the phone with them. They currently are selling 8 or 9 ounce horse strips for $7.50 per pound. I feel like I am in a foreign country talking a different language. I don't know how much of this 9 ounce horse hide I need to buy. But the lady was very nice and told me that 5 strips about 46" in length, tapered at the ends would be about $75. I will pick them up and save the $25 handling charge. Does anybody have any more advice for me before I make this purchase?

Geri

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Re: Welt

#23 Post by big_larry » Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:28 am

Geri,

I am one of those boot makers that use the Horween horse hide strips for side welt and sometimes bottom welt. There are a whole lots of other boot makers that know a lot more than me about it, however, I will share a couple of things I do that might help.

I cut the bottom welt about 1 inch wide to allow me to position the hold fast well under the boot. I do not like to see the welt stitches after the boot is completed. I also like to have lots of bottom welt to trim after the bottom sole is glued and sewn. I hand sew the bottom welt and bottom sole using an awl and a "Jerk Needle." I'm just not ready to move on the the bristle technique yet. I like to work on one technique at a time until I pretty well master it.

I also like to have adaquit side welt to trim and so I cut the side welt about 3/4 of an inch wide. I know from experience that it is much easier to trim (waste) the excess than it is to add when you come up short.

I sew the side seam with Z-207 thread and lengthen the stitch to about 5 in one inch. This insures that the thread will not cut the horsehide. I also add a bit of pure needsfoot oil to the horse hide welt and wet the bottom welt so a strip will turn the bend around the toe. I have tried cutting the bottom welt like a horse shoe to pre shape it before welting. The 1 inch strip works just as well if you soak it and case it over night.

I know that there are folks that have much better and more advanced information than what I have given. I hope they will go over this information again for your sake.

Good luck and best wishes!

Larry Peterson

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Re: Welt

#24 Post by lancepryor » Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:00 pm

Geraldine:

A couple of words of advice: first, make sure you get the 'soft rolled' strips, not the hard rolled. I used the latter until learning better, and they are very hard to penetrate with an awl. One of the horse butt strips will give you numerous welt strips, I would imagine up to 10 or even 15, so you probably don't really need to buy 5 of them. FWIW, Siegel of California also sells them, and if you want to save the headache and expense of driving all that way, I'd just order from Siegel. If you order over $75 from Siegel, shipping is free, no sales tax, and no gasoline expense driving to/from Horween. I think Siegel is getting some of the strips in from Horween any time now. Siegel also sells lots of tools, cements, etc., so it is easy to get up to $75 worth of stuff.

https://www.siegelofca.com/Default.asp

You might need to call re: the horse butts -- they used to be listed on the site, but I don't see them now. However, a recent e-mail said they'd be getting some in soon.

Lance

(Message edited by lancepryor on February 21, 2008)

marcell

Re: Welt

#25 Post by marcell » Thu Feb 21, 2008 2:43 pm

I just checked their site..
https://www.siegelofca.com/itemdetail.asp?prodid=369

Can someone help me to check, if they have stock from cordovan? I am hunting for that for months...

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