The Crispin Colloquy

All,

I just got in touch with a little linen warehouse in Wisconsin which has 25/1, 20/1, 16/1, and 8/1 single ply Swedish linen thread. I'll be getting some samples in, but their prices for mini-cones (0.5lb) are quite good. They may also be able to price out 1 kilo (2.2lb) cones. You can check their website at http://www.woolgatherers.com. I have been searching for single ply linen for quite some time, and am glad to have found what seems like a solid source!


Francis

Francis:

Very interesting; I have some Bockens (sp?) swedish linen thread, seems decent though not great.

The website says the thread is wet spun, which could be challenging for un-spinning and snapping the thread to make a fine taw/end for application to the bristle.

Look forward to hearing your impression of the thread.

Lance

Lance,

I tend to scrape the threads to make my taw rather than break them, so I don't expect too much of an issue. In fact, I think I've been using wet-spun for some time now, so I'm probably used to it!


Francis

That's Vaxbo stuff. I have a kg spool of that (we ordered direct from Vaxbo and they sent kg spools instead of the 25g ones we ordered).

It's wet spun, not too hard to break and taper but doesn't hold wax worth spit even when very thoroughly burnished in. I cut threads made up from three strands of the 16/1 and there was distinct fuzz in the middle of them.

It's great for bowstrings though.

Hmm, useful to know. I will give it a try and see what happens. A shame, I was really hoping for an easy solution!

Alasdair, just as a side note, the linen samples that I received had no issue holding the pitch-based wax that we made up, and I made several waxed ends which I judged to be perfectly usable. Perhaps it is a function of the wax used - the little imperfections (and I have yet to see single ply linen thread without them) all get nicely burnished down with the wax. I suppose it all depends on the combination of materials!

They also have a couple kg left of super-fine 40/1 thread which I have never been able to find - should be very good for fine stitching of 18th C. Shoe outsoles.

Francis

G'day Francis, If you roll the dry threads together, halve the length around a nail (the two ends in your hand), then take a smooth straight awl and wrap one half of the thread once round it and, pushing upward so that the thread won't slip off the awl, run the awl backwards and forwards and watch the fluff and stuff come off. Repeat for the rest of the thread. Once nice and smooth, wax.

Cheers
Duncan

Duncan,

Nice thought! Thanks for the suggestion - I may give this a try the next couple of hanks I make.

Francis

In the past month or so, I've probably spent $200 on samples trying to find some decent hemp inseaming thread.

Finally, a company in California sent me a big spool of hemp yarn. It frays wonderfully and 6 strands makes a pretty darn good inseaming thread.

This shows a strand next to some 6-cord poly:

This is the spool I received. Enough for many pairs of shoes/boots.

Never examined thread this close, but I believe the staple to be around 5-6 inches.

Will keep you informed on my next inseaming job.

I first what to say how much I love this forum and what a great resource it has been for me. As my first post, I was wondering if there was anyone that could recommend a good thread for closing uppers by hand? I know this isn't a common practice but I enjoy the control of stitching by hand. I'm very new to shoe making and in the process of finishing my first pair. I used some sort of polyester embroidery thread that was clearly not good for the job but I have no idea what the right type of thread is. Any help would be much appreciated!

Welcome, Todd. Others may have better ideas, but the fabric stores have upholstery thread that works pretty well for a beginner if waxed. Seems to work with the small needles from the big box leather stores.
Chuck

Thanks Chuck. I meant to say I was using upholstery thread as you recommended. The problem I have is the thread doesn't set well. I'm stitching 10 spi and they loosen up some as I go. I tried waxing the thread but it doesn't accept the wax well...

A friend of mine suggested bookbinding suppliers might be a good source for strong thread. An example here: http://www.hollanders.com/supplies/BrowseCategory.aspx?CategoryID=4bfe5bd4-85de- 4206-bae0-b59817669dc6

They even have waxed thread. Pricy though.

I will be going to Hollanders tomorrow. Most of the thread on their website seemed to thick for this purpose but being I live about 20 min. away, visiting their shop seems like the best bet. I agree, pretty price!

Have used an upholstery thread from the fabric store that comes on a small cone, made in Germany, I think. Not as slick as some. If you can find cotton coated polyester thread, it will take the wax better. Seldom stitch that fine.
Chuck

I need to find some cotton coated Polyester. What are you using to wax the thread? Should I be using the same wax I made for insole threads?

Think straight beeswax works better for hand sewing. You can also use one or two strands from the waxed hand sewing thread from a big box leather store. Might be able to do the same with the bookbinders thread.
Chuck

I would also like to give a shout-out to the Woolgatherers (http://www.woolgatherers.com) who sell a variety of Vaxbo single ply linen in natural and bleached. I know that Alisdair has mentioned that he's not too keen on the Vaxbo, but I've been using it for a while now and the unbleached is nice and strong (I use 16/1). They may not list it on their website, but if you call and ask, they'll be able to help you.

Francis

Can someone explain thread gauge for me. I recently found some hand sewing thread, linen and hemp, 8, 10 and 15.

Are there better gauges for different tasks? Are more thinner threads stronger than fewer thicker ones?

I'm going to stick with the Dacron for inseaming but something Janne said earlier has stuck with me and I've been making natural thread for my Norwegian sewn shoes.

Jon,

That may be another one of those things that is lost to the ages...or nearly so. And esp. since most of the great Irish linen mills closed not so many years ago.

I've never seen 8 but I have used 10 a lot and I have some 15. I can only speculate that both for odd/even sequencing and strength considerations the various sizes originated.

I'm guessing the theory was/is that ten strands of 15 are thinner yet possibly equally strong as ten strands of 10.

You may also know that one time (still?) it was nearly canonical that certain applications required an odd number of strands and others an even number. Al could tell you more about that.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[center]Without "good" there is no "better," without "better," no "best."
And without the recognition that there is a hierarchy of excellence in all things, nothing rises above the level of mundane.[/center]

Here is a source for linen thread that the tailor at OS recomended.

www.wmboothdraper.com

He recomended to 16/2. Its the heaviest.

Thought you all might want to know!

Cody

P.S. Its wet spun which I think is better.

Cody

Someone posted this link back in 2012.
www.woolgatherers.com
They have hemp thread now. They say its real hemp and not just linen waste. has anyone had any experience with it?

Cody


PS
I got some of the thread I posted above (16/2) and in my humble opinion I think its pretty darn good. Its clean and very strong. takes wax well.

Cody:

Thanks for the update.

No experience with it. My question would be its strength. The link says it is equivalent to tow linen thread; tow linen is the short linen fibers, line linen is long linen fibers. So, to me, that begs the question as to the hemp thread's strength. Would love to know its tensile strength in comparison to good linen thread.

Lance

I might get some one of these days and if I do I will test it and let you all know. How would you all recomend testing it. Tie it to a cup and add weights until it breaks? A knot would weaken it so Im knot sure.

Cody