Thread

[Duncan McHarg]

DW,Matt,etal,
Hmm.I have 15 mins. lets see how I go.
From the discussion I presume that 'inseaming' is sewing the upper and welt to the insole.I use 10 strands 20yr old Australian linen,hand plyed & rolled.

With fishing line I cut it at an angle following the curve from the spool.Hammer the last 1/4" making it easier to cut then with great care pull it in 2. And yes its good for inseaming where the holes are reasonable.

When using a needle it's a conventional sewing 'straw' no.10 from a habadasheries(have I spelt that right?) with the point rubbed off. Behind the eye is a small groove which permits the taper to sit partly out of the way.I do move the thread 3 times during a seam.I use for all fine sewing.

I have not to date been able to get boars bristles.

Run out of time.
Cheers Duncan

[Lisa Sorrell]

All,
I too was taught to inseam with a jerk needle. I switched to dacron tapers and a 40lb. test fishing line bristle about a year ago. I confess that I switched mainly because I wanted to be able to say that was the way I inseamed. I didn't necessarily think it was better. Now I enjoy inseaming that way, and I'm convinced it makes a better quality seam and boot.

I liked inseaming with a waxed end from the first, but it took me so LONG! I thought I'd just have to factor that in. I haven't tried to get any faster. But I've gotten better at it, and now it doesn't take any longer than inseaming with a jerk needle. Plus, I don't have the constant worry of breaking the thread!

Lisa

[Bhodisattva23]

Ah, saba-jis,

Steel bristles! jerk needles! This is such a Western concept, my little caterpillars. Push, shove, penetrate! So much violence. Not at all in harmony with the universe.

When using the hair of a big pig, one has to find one's centre for starters. 20 pranyamas ought to do the trick, except if you have allergies like I do in the spring. Then one has to immerse oneself in the cosmic all and ALLOW the bristle point to find it's way through the hole in the leather. Yet one must be indifferent to whether the bristle actually finds it's way out the other end, or not. It is the contemplation of the unknowable. Schrodingers cat. A form of meditation. What is the sound of one hand clapping, little tadpoles? The acceptance of all possibilities. The embrace of eternity.

Inseaming is a zen thing. One must reach down deep inside oneself and feel the power and the inevitability of the bristle passing through infinite interdimemsional wormholes to emerge effortlessly.

Breathe deep little bean sprouts. And may the force be with you.

Om mane padme om

[rosynay]

And Grandmother wants to know on what
Planet do you reside?

[dw]

Bhodi, I can call you that can't I?)

Thank you for these words of wisdom, Master. Hee-hee, I was laughing all the way to nirvana...THEN!!...suddenly enlightenment! This grasshopper makes a small jump. I want to rub my hind legs together in a song of thanks.

May your forcefield remain active...

Tight Stitches...
DWFII--Member HCC

[marc]

I had to share this. I was explaining the use of bristles to a very new learning shoemaker today and her response was, "Oh? Like this?":

1730.jpg

Learn something new every day

Marc

[D.A. Saguto--HCC]

Marc,

Not clear what's happening in the photo, except there's that gap between the split-portions that might better be wrapped over for added strength. Between what the "dead guys" depicted, described, and what I've seen in my travels, how the bristle is wrapped with the taw of the thread, is/was always up to you--"whatever works". If it stays put and doesn't break-off, you're fine.

[dw]

Al,

I may be wrong--photos can be deceiving--but it looks like a steel bristle to me. That "gap" is so characteristic and I immediately spotted, what looks for all the world as if the taw was looped through the "eye" and turned back on itself.

As I said, I've used steel bristles and when the bristle is thin enough and the point refined enough, they're OK...hell, they're better than OK...but, for me at least, they'll never be as easy to use as a nylon bristle. That's the "sweet spot." In fact, I'd go so far as to say that I like nylon bristles more than the originals--hog's bristles. I have 7-8" prime hog's bristles in both black and white (I think the black may be a little stouter) and both are longer than what was probably available to our forerunners--or so I've been led to believe.

Like you say, if it stays put and doesn't break off and you end up with a "shoemaker's stitch" rather than a "machine stitch"...it's good--any method that accomplishes that is good, they're *all* good.

1731.jpg

[marc]

I haven't actually tried *using* this - I just thought I'd share it. DW's close -- it's actually a 6" blond bristle that's been looped in half and stuck together with the code/wax...



Marc

[Jonathon Head]

Thanks for the photo Mark. This is exactly what I (and many others down here in oz )use. Down here they are refered to as a "flexi needle" I was put onto them by a fellow bootmaker and have never looked back. George used to teach using a No 1 harness needle , softened over a flame to make them flexible but I found this method very time consuming. Bristles as far as I can gather are totally non existant in these parts, but I would be keen to try the nylon bristles others have been describing here.
Could someone please describe to me more clearly the way these nylon " bristles " are prepared.
Cheers.

[dw]

Jonathon,

Try here:

"Open Forum">"Techniques, Crans...">"Bristling at the Very Suggestion">'Archives">1-25"

BTW, I don't think that the photo Marc posted is of a wire or steel bristle, as you seem to be suggesting. Marc indicates it's a regular blond boars bristle folded on itself. Seems like it would be pretty brittle to me, as well as *real* short, but I've never tried it that way.

Tight Stitches...
DWFII--Member HCC

[Jonathon Head]

thanks D W
Interesting reading. Just one querie. When the slice is made in the nylon bristle and then pried apart does this create the "eye" so to speak. I read that this initial slice is only done partially through. Why not slice right through?
Cheers
Jon.

[dw]

Jonathon,

Somehow you've got the wrong idea entirely. Possibly because you've never worked with, maybe never even seen, actual boar's bristles.

No "eye" is ever created with a boar's bristle or a nylon bristle. It wouldn't work (I've tried it) and it isn't needed. It's an entirely different form of attachment and, really, one of the key elements that makes the nylon bristle superior (IMHO) to a needle or a steel bristle.

When the cut is made, it is simply to start a process of splitting the bristle. If we have a bristle 12 inches long, it can be split for six to eight inches along its length to form an elongated "Y". No "eye," at all.

Boar's bristles are very much like hair off a human head. They tend to be thick and flexible up next to the skin and a bit frayed at the outer end--like a "split end" if you understand that terminology (it might be an "Americanism," for all I know). So a boar's bristle is already "started". And it's as natural as a yawn to split the end of a boars bristle so that you have a...roughly...elongated "Y" shape.

Again, that's exactly what we want with the nylon bristle--an elongated "Y".

The tip of the taw is then placed in the crook of the "Y" and a process of wrapping and counterwrapping the legs takes place. The end result is that the taw of the inseaming thread and the bristle are essentially "braided" together.

With that information, go back now, and re-read that section (it's hyperlinked on the forum, BTW). Re-read the whole conversation in the archive...1-25. I think it will make more sense, now.

Tight Stitches...
DWFII--Member HCC

[Duncan McHarg]

G'day Jonathon,
Whereabouts you based.I'm in the Central Goldfields Vic.

DW,"split ends" isn't an Americanism.There used to be a New Zealand/Australian band called 'Split Enz'. Jon,they still around?
Wouldnt nat. bristle be a little smoother through the holes due to a slight taper as opposed to fishing line which is a consistant diam. all along? Braiding on the waxed end (I use plain bees wax by the way) is rock solid but adding on the 'end' even though it's fine contributes extra bulk and therefore resistance at that point when going through the hole.
Kvestions,kvestions,and on it goes.

Cheers Duncan.

[dw]

Duncan,

The boars bristle tapers the opposite way from what you are thinking. It's thickest at the hide end. It gets thinner toward the "air" end. Which is very convenient because that's the end that is being merged with the taw.

I'm using 30lb nylon at the present and it's even a little thinner than the boar's bristles that I have.

I use coad-- a hand wax mixture of beeswax and pine rosin and pitch. Beeswax is too slippery, especially on dacron thread. The handwax is sticky and locks tight when the thread is seated. Once the bristle is in place, I beeswax the wraps and about 12-18" of the end to *make* the ends slide more easily past one another. The upshot of all of this is that if the taw is braided onto the bristle with care, and finesse, there is less of a lump and less resistance than using a steel bristle, IMNSHO.

Look at the photo again. Especially the bristle on the bottom. (The top bristle has an unfortunate shadow that makes the wrap look thick right at the point where it merges into the bristle). Remember when you are looking at it that it is 30lb monofilament and the photo is a little larger than real lfe. That's 1/2 inch welt that I cut from a horse shoulder so use that measurement for scale. The photo is about 20% larger than real life.

Tight Stitches...
DWFII--Member HCC

[Jonathon Head]

Thanks for setting me straight DW I'm sure I'm upto speed now. Your correct in your assumptions,as I said earlier I have never clapped eyes on boars bristles, just can't get 'em down these parts. When learning with George I started with No 1 harness needles, softened so as to be able to bend them. Progressed from them to flexi needles which I've never had a problem with. I think there great. However I'm always willing to learn new tricks ( I'm still a young pup, not an old dog )hence my inquisitive nature about this "nylon" bristle caper. I'll keep experimenting!
Duncan,
Glad to hear from a fellow Aussie.I am shop manager of "The Cobbler Shop" at Blackwood, (A short drive south of Adelaide ).

BTW Split Enz transformed into Crowded House when one of the Finn brothers went his own way. Great music,but I'm not sure about the make up back in the 70's.

[gcunning]

Jonathan,Duncan
Funny that this conversation is going on when DW just this month has an article in the
Leather Crafters Journal on how to do this procedure. If you don't get the magazine
it is worth having. I have had the technique shown to me and would not have figured
it could be so detailed in print. Not that DW needs ANY ego boost (sorry DW)
He did a very meticulous piece over the subject.
Gary C.

[Anonymous]

I have sort of a twisted question.

Al, do the Dead Guys have anything explicit to say on the proceedure?

Marc
marc-carlson@utulsa.edu

[D.A. Saguto--HCC]

Marc,

No time to channel the "dead guys" right now, but in short, yes. The procedure for attaching bristles to the taws of the threads, are described and illustrated in detail by Garsault, 1767; described well with no illustrations by Rees, 1813, and later in almost every textbook from Devlin, 1839/40 onward. The later they get, the more profusely they're illustrated, so by the 1890s--1900s it's a no-brainer. Basically there are two main techniques: wrapping the taw around an un-split bristle, and splitting the bristle in-half, into thirds, etc., and inserting the taw in between, then twisting the taw up with one, then the other, or over both split sections. The variations here are too many to catalogue.

[Anonymous]

Al,
Ok, it was the wrapping the thread around the bristle that I was wondering about. Thank you.

Marc

[D.A. Saguto--HCC]

Marc,

Yup, when mentioned by "the dead guys", the taw is always wrapped around or twisted-up with the bristle, split or whole. Just the "newly dead" do better job of illustrating all the goofy ways this can be done than the "long dead".

[marc]

Ok, I had this really weird dream last night that had a "waxed end" made with that floppy blonde pig bristle by actually sticking it into the taw, leaving only about an inch out at the front, immeadiately after separating the threads, and waking and "making" the thread AROUND the bristle, so it's all one (heavily waxed) unit. I can't wait to try it this evening.

BTW, No, I don't normally dream about shoemaking, but there was this guy sitting on a bench...



Marc

[gcunning]

Does anyone have the problem I have. Experence is probably the problem. I can stitch nearly around the toe then it pulls apart. Then I reattach the pieces. Then it will pull apart nearly every other time. It drives me crazy. Any solutions?
Gary C

[D.A. Saguto--HCC]

Gary,

Goin' around the toe while welt-sewing is what my masters' master used to call "a real bugger". If anything can go wrong, it will there. The only advice is to keep periodically re-waxing your whole thread [including the bristle wrapping], to supply the constant drain on the wax as it gets stripped-off going through each successive stitch-hole. And, when you first put your bristles into the hole, pluck the right-hand one through about 8-10", then holding the left-hand bristle against the thread going the other way, pull them back together--IOW, retrograde the right hand thread at the same time so you aren't pulling so hard on the left-hand bristle. Then, once both bristles are clear of the hole, pull on the thread right behind each bristle, not on the bristle itself, and you'll save wear and tear on the joint.

Marc,

Dreaming about waxed-ends is just the beginning. Wait until you start seeing rows and rows of stitches in your sleep. Next come the voices

[marc]

'Voices', pfft. I just hope they talk loud enough to be heard over the rest...

Marc