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Got any great sources for leather? Tools? Machinery? Looking for sources?
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deeter

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#1 Post by deeter » Mon May 03, 1999 11:41 am

I am having trouble finding a good supplier for size 33 thread. If any one can give me a good source, I would be grateful. Thank you.

Shane Deeter

John Bedford Leno

Re: Thread

#2 Post by John Bedford Leno » Mon May 03, 1999 11:54 am

Sherman Shoe Supply can get thread from almost any of the major manufacturers and is willing to sell it in small lots. If I were looking for size 33, that's where I would go first but don't expect to get a full range of colours. No one currently makes as many colours in a size 33 nylon as in a 46.

On a note of optimism, there seems to be some revival of interest in machine twist silk. I recently learned of one company bringing it in from Japan. If I remember rightly 33 was the default size.

I don't have either address at hand but if you need them, ask again and I will dig them up.

Lee I. Miller

Re: Thread

#3 Post by Lee I. Miller » Mon May 03, 1999 2:10 pm

A excellent for 33 nylon thread is Rice Corp.
Their number is 1-800-765-RICE(7423). The minimum
order is one lb. per color. The thread can be
purchased on various size spools in a soft or
bonded finish. They have a wide variety of colors
and will be happy to send you a color chart. I
usually buy 2 - 8ounce spools in the soft.

Lisa Sorrell

Re: Thread

#4 Post by Lisa Sorrell » Mon May 03, 1999 5:06 pm

Shane,
I was going to recommend Rice Corp. also. They have a large range of colors available in #33. Call them and ask for their thread chart, and be sure and ask for the samples of neon colors as well. Unless they've changed their chart, they're on a separate card. I'm personally not too big on the neon colors, but they have a beautiful turquoise shade that's in with the neons. Their prices are around $22 a pound. I've ordered thread from Sherman before, and I didn't care for it. It has a wire-like feel to it compared to the Rice nylon thread.

Lisa Sorrell

John Bedford Leno

Re: Thread

#5 Post by John Bedford Leno » Mon May 03, 1999 9:40 pm

Strange, isn't it? I never think of Rice. Especially when I think of selection. I have several thread cards, from American, and American-Efrid, Synthetic, and now extinct Holland. The American card probably best represents what most of the best companies carry in terms of selection. They must have two or three hundred colors (as opposed to the MAYBE 50 that Rice carries) including about roughly eight shades of green, same amount for blue, probably ten or eleven shades of red, if you count the pinks and burgundies, and about four to five shades of purple. And I would guess about fifty shades of brown.Probably doesn't make much difference to most people but I tend to subtle color transitions and I would be lost if I were limited to Rice.

The "wire-like feel" that you refer to, Lisa, is probably simply the difference between bonded thread and soft finish. I tend to like the bonded thread because you don't end up with a lot of minute "fuzzies" on the surface of your stitch pattern like you do with soft. BTW, Sherman buys from all of these companies AND probably Rice, as well. Sherman Shoe Supply is just a "finder" the threads they offer are not of their own manufacture, as far as I know.

deeter

Re: Thread

#6 Post by deeter » Tue May 04, 1999 8:23 am

Thank you all for the info. I have tried to call rice before, but they said I had to go through one of their dealers( i.e. weaver) who don't commonly carry 33 or very many colors. Did I just catch them on a bad day or have any of you ran into the same problem.
John, I would like the adress for Sherman if it isn't too much trouble. Do they have a minimum order? Also, what are their prices like?
Again, thank you.
Deeter

John Bedford Leno

Re: Thread

#7 Post by John Bedford Leno » Tue May 04, 1999 5:41 pm

Deeter,

Both Sherman Shoe Supply - 781.598.9857 and Goldberg - 978.745.3030 offer the same selection of threads, or at least their latest swatch books are identical. Neither has a minimum order above one lb. And their prices are roughly the same as was quoted for Rice - everybody tends to be about the same price.

But I was a little extravagant in my previous message. They only have 113 colors; 9 red shades, 18 blue shades, 6-7 green shades, 10 yellow shades, 3-5 orange shades (depending on how you assign colors - some may be as much brown as orange), 8 gray shades, 3 purple shades and 23-24 shades of brown. Not to mention a number of colors that are not easily categorized such as natural, sta-white, cream, and ficelle. As a contrast, Rice only offers 48 colors and that INCLUDES their neons.

And if you are looking for even more shades of any color, Barbour Campbell Thread, Ltd. of England (who knows their address?) has 225 colors.

Lisa Sorrell

Re: Thread

#8 Post by Lisa Sorrell » Wed May 05, 1999 4:13 pm

John,
I'm curious--what do you do that you need or want to have that many colors? Believe me, there's no implied criticism. My particular weakness is kidskin, because it comes in so many lovely colors. I'm not sure I need to be exposed to 113 different thread colors--I'll go broke buying all the colors I like.

Lisa

DWFII

Re: Thread

#9 Post by DWFII » Wed May 05, 1999 6:21 pm

Lisa,

Maybe I can answer that. I, too, like to have a lot of colours. What I would give to have access to the 225 colours that was mentioned in a previous message. But to answer your question...it's a little like money--the more you make, the more you spend. Believe me, you wouldn't have any trouble at all finding a use for every colour you had at your disposal.

Colour of thread is like the artist's palette, for us. Much CAN be done with the primary colours--red, blue, yellow; much can be done with complimentary colours. But the human eye is capable of distinguishing over 16 MILLION colours...how much broader, how much more expressively, can we paint when our palette is not limited?

I, too, like kidskin. I recently bought several beautiful royal blue goatskins from Hardtke. Perfect for tops. Now sometimes you may want or even design the boot to have contrasting thread colours...either as a stitch pattern or as the seamline around the top bead, etc.. But in my mind--in my vision of the boot--I would be extremely dissatisfied if I had to put an "off-colour" blue--even just a shade off--around the bead when what I really wanted was an exact match. Or what about around an inlay? If you are inlaying bluebonnets on a bone top, do you really want to use a white thread on the bone leather? Sometimes we want the leather to speak for itself and it can't do that if the stitching calls attention to itself.

I am also extraordinarily fond of shade patterns for my ornamental stitching. On this royal blue I might, for instance, stitch five or six lines of blue, starting with a pale powder blue and transitioning through to a navy (to contrast clearly but subtly with the royal blue). Try it sometime, it's striking. The effect is VERY refined and almost three dimensional. But a green shade pattern will look especially handsome on the royal blue, as well. And a purple shade pattern will knock your socks off. And if handled correctly, each of these colour combinations will be refined and nuanced in a way that a simple set of primary or complimentary colours, such as ABBA (yellow, orange, orange, yellow), can't even begin to approach.

And although I implied it above, when I want to match a leather colour, I want a MATCH, not a near miss--in my mind that's the essence of refinement, elegance and that elusive holy grail we all seek...professional excellence.

Maybe I'm too fussy but that's my story and I'm sticking to it

John Bedford Leno

Re: Thread

#10 Post by John Bedford Leno » Wed May 05, 1999 7:38 pm

Lisa,

I took no offense and I hope you know that I meant no criticism in my remarks, either.

I think DW stated it pretty well. But I don't much care for Rice. That may be evident in my remarks, but I would buy from them in a minute if they had a color I wanted. I have one of their recent cards and they have the neons sampled right along with the regular colors. I didn't see the turquoise that you mentioned. How recently have you bought that color from them?

I like having all those colors on my thread deck. Its like having a pirate's chest of bright jewels. It dazzles the eye and makes you want to run your fingers through them. I recently bought a fairly large quantity of silk thread. Talk about pure color. And the intensity of that color! Even the dark colors have a sheen to them that almost makes it look like jewels. I wish I could afford to sew with silk exclusively.

But I am curious why you prefer the soft finish over the bonded. And I would ask Lee Miller the same question. It's interesting, don't you think?

Lisa Sorrell

Re: Thread

#11 Post by Lisa Sorrell » Thu May 06, 1999 4:19 pm

D.W. & John,
I don't have ANY problems imagining what to do with all those colors! I'm just curious about someone who's using all of them. I have stitched tops for other bootmakers using black thread on black tops, or brown thread on brown tops. I'm always interested when I run into a kindred spirit who likes colors!
I haven't sewn with silk that much. It's very pretty, but I just haven't worked with it or seen enough of it to spend any time longing for it. Have any of you ever seen the rayon thread that's used for decorative stitching on fabric? It has a beautiful sheen to it. The white is opalescent, when you turn it you can see different colors in it. It's beautiful stuff, but it's VERY small diameter and lightweight, unfortunately not suitable for stitching boot tops.

Lisa

Lee I. Miller

Re: Thread

#12 Post by Lee I. Miller » Fri May 07, 1999 9:34 am

John:
I do prefer soft thread over bonded, although I
use both. I do not get the dreaded "fuzzies" at
the 33 weight that you speak of, but I have on the
soft 46 weight. Some of the different brands of
bonded thread are so stiff, it's like sewing with
plastic or wire.
We have Rice, Sherman, Gudebrod and Clarks in the
thread inventory, which is always growing. I would
hesitate to purchase 113 colors simply because
they are available, but only as warranted. On
Tuesday, I took three reorders, 1 pr. with 6 rows
to match the quill bumps on Ant. Saddle Ost.,
another pr. a mixture of gold, rosewood and dark
green, and a pair with 6 rows of white. You would
be surprised at the number of plain boots we make.
I do hear from some customer that you can tell
it's a handmade boot because you can't find shelf
boots that are plain. Personally, I do love the
rainbow of colors, but not every customer wants
that.
Rice is a good company that is very easy to buy
from, bit if you can't buy a lb. of top thread,
bhere are finders who stock small 1 oz. spools.
Saderma in California in 213-461-4861.
Lee

John Bedford Leno

Re: Thread

#13 Post by John Bedford Leno » Fri May 07, 1999 2:00 pm

Lee,

I really like that use of color - where you pick up the quill color off a nice ostrich and bring it up onto a contrasting top with your thread. That ties the boot together and adds a balance and a harmony that would not be there if you just had six rows of bright stitching.

But I still don't get it. So what if the bonded thread is initially stiff? What's the down side? The color is just as bright with the bonded as with the soft. The rows and the stitches themselves may even lay in a bit more cleanly than with the soft. The stiffness has never bothered me and I have been using bonded thread for maybe 20 years (jeez, is it that long already?) I wouldn't even be surprised if a great deal of that stiffness doesn't sluff off during stitching. I have had occasion to pull stitches when something (or even me) went wrong. The thread seems much softer after it has gone through the eye of the needle.

So, I am genuinely curious as to why you don't use the bonded thread. Again, what are the drawbacks, in your opinion? Are there functional drawbacks or do you just not like the stiffness itself?

Lee I. Miller

Re: Thread

#14 Post by Lee I. Miller » Sat May 08, 1999 4:08 pm

John:
I use both bonded and soft, but I have noticed
that if my machine (31-15) messes up, it's usually
on some of the bonded thread.
Some of the thread combinations I use often would
be: 1 white, 2 red, 1 white or 1 white 4 green, 1
white or "shadow" stitching, where the color
starts light and gradually gets darker toward the
inside - it just sort of glows.
If you would, please give me some background -
where you are located, how you got started, etc. I
remember getting off a plane 24 years ago in
Tulsa and it seems just like yesterday
Lee

Jake Dobbins

Re: Thread

#15 Post by Jake Dobbins » Sun May 09, 1999 10:06 am

What are most of you using to close your side seams? I'm presently using linen (waxed), sewing it by hand. Since I "hoist" while lasting, I find that I don't have near the problem of grinning at the side seam by hand sewing. I first sew the side seam by machine with a round-point needle. Is anyone using a Dacron machine thread? Who's a good finder for this type of thread? What size of thread?

Any comments will be appreciated.

Jake

fEisele's Custom Boots

Re: Thread

#16 Post by fEisele's Custom Boots » Mon May 10, 1999 7:29 pm

Jake
G. Goldberg Co. is a supplier of dacron, as is Robinson Thread Co.1-800-654-3230. As for the size I couldn't say for sure. I know that poly thread is a smaller diameter than nylon of the same weight, but dacron I couldn't say. I use 346 poly thread for the seams.

Kevin

Jake

Re: Thread

#17 Post by Jake » Mon May 10, 1999 7:37 pm

Kevin,

Thanks for the info. I'll give it a try, because I keep hearing about the dacron.

By the way, are you using dacron for outsole stitching too?

Thanks again!

Jake

fEisele's Custom Boots

Re: Thread

#18 Post by fEisele's Custom Boots » Tue May 11, 1999 11:57 am

Jake

I've been working on a 2 lb. spool of polyester for a while now and will try the dacron when this ends.
Lets us know about the dacron when you get a chance to use it.

Kevin

fEisele's Custom Boots

Re: Thread

#19 Post by fEisele's Custom Boots » Wed May 12, 1999 6:22 am

Could we please get the phone and fax # for Synthetic Thread and American & Efird Thread Co.
To much has been said about the wonderful selection of colors to let this pass.

John Bedford Leno

Re: Thread

#20 Post by John Bedford Leno » Wed May 12, 1999 7:02 am

I could be dead wrong about this but I believe that dacron and polyester thread are one and the same. At least that's how my finder sells it. He's usually pretty much on the ball. Last time I ordered, Dick told me that as far as he knew from talking to Barbour's, they had told him that dacron and poly were the same.

As for Synthetic and American Efrid, I think Synthetic will sell in small amounts but American Efrid will not. Truthfully, I think I would deal with Goldberg's or Sherman Shoe Supply. As I said in a previous message, I was just guessing about how many colors there were when I lavishly stated tow or three hundred. The Sherman Shoe Supply card has as many colors as anyone presently (113 colors), with the exception of Campbell Barbour and I don't know how to get ahold of them.

Jake

Re: Thread

#21 Post by Jake » Wed May 12, 1999 9:41 am

Kevin,

For American & Efird, Inc.......(800)223-8872 talk with P.J. McCord (visited with him at Brownwood last year)

For Synthetic Thread........(800)836-0525 (talk to Stephen Burke)

I am in the same thinking as John......Dacron is the same as Poly.

Hope this helps.

Jake

fEisele's Custom Boots

Re: Thread

#22 Post by fEisele's Custom Boots » Wed May 12, 1999 11:48 am

Thanks for the help. I'm getting ready to usae the info as I type, which should take a while as slow as I type.

Eisele's Custom Boots

Re: Thread

#23 Post by Eisele's Custom Boots » Sun Aug 29, 1999 5:30 pm

I would like all to know that at the present, I am trying some embroidery thread in a 30 weight, which is their heavier weight. If this is successful, there are more colors than a person could imagine.
I'll keep you posted on the outcome.
The co. name is Madera.

Lisa Sorrell

Re: Thread

#24 Post by Lisa Sorrell » Sun Aug 29, 1999 8:08 pm

Kevin,
Let me know how the thread works. I'm immediately drooling at the phrase "more colors than a person could imagine".

Lisa

Eisele's Custom Boots

Re: Thread

#25 Post by Eisele's Custom Boots » Mon Aug 30, 1999 8:39 pm

Lisa
Both weights of samples that Madeira sent to me worked with no problems. I use a 31-15, a #12 NWP needle. There approx. 252 colors available in the 5500 yd. cone for $6.90 per cone. Their #30 worked the best, but the #40 was no problem.
Web address is www.madeirausa.com

Kevin

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