Books, Manuals, Publications

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Books, Manuals, Publications

#1 Post by admin » Sun May 05, 2002 11:47 am

On 06 May 2002, 150 plus posts (everything prior to 25 February 2002) were moved to the first CD archive.

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Re: Books, Manuals, Publications

#2 Post by Anonymous » Sat Jun 08, 2002 11:53 pm

manuals

shoestring

Re: Books, Manuals, Publications

#3 Post by shoestring » Thu Jul 04, 2002 1:44 pm

Hello out there, I'am in the process of trying to obtain two books "Titled-The Modern Boot & Shoemaker-II&IV",the publishing co.is Gresham around or about 1920. Is there anyone that can shead some insight on them and there worth.Your help will be appreciated in this matter,and could your reply be done directly to my e-mail.Thanks in advance Ed

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Re: Books, Manuals, Publications

#4 Post by dw » Fri Jul 05, 2002 8:26 am

Ed,

I have all four volumes of the Gresham as well as all four volumes of Bordoli's The Boot and Shoemaker--from which the Gresham set was derived, if I recall correctly--and the Bordoli is by far the better reference.

But if you are looking for either one...or any of the English texts on shoemaking...you might try Martin Earl at:

http://www.hp-bookfinders.co.uk/index.html

That's where I got most of my collection.

As for their worth...Martin is generally pretty fair, so I'd trust him. Remember these are long out of print and antiques, essentially--you pay your admission when the gate opens or you may not get another opportunity.

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fletch

Re: Books, Manuals, Publications

#6 Post by fletch » Fri Sep 20, 2002 5:40 am

Don't know if this is in the right topic, feel free to move it where it belongs.

Tex Robin got this link from Kiyano Wtanabe and Carrlyn Miller (Texas Traditions). If you use the search button of the web-page and put in Texas Bootmakers, about 80 photos from an 1930s-1940s boot shop in Alpine, TX (Big Bend country) will be found. Some great photos of old-time bootmakers showing some interesting steps in the bootmaking process.

The page is a little slow (I suspect due to high traffic)so it may take time to pull the photos up.

There is a photo of a bootmaker using a Slack tub to dip the leather in. It makes me want to ask Tex and other bootmakers if you "slacks" before you "dosks" or "dosks" before you "slacks."


http://lcweb2.loc.gov/

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Re: Books, Manuals, Publications

#7 Post by dw » Fri Sep 20, 2002 6:26 am

Mark,

Thanks to Lee Miller I too received this link. However, it's not immediately apparent how to get to the photos. So, if I may, this is from instructions I got some of this from Lee...

Go to - http://lcweb2.loc.gov/ammem/collections/finder.html

Go to time...

Click 1930-1949...

Go to the search box.

-type "boot shop".

-Change left lower criteria box to "Match this exact phrase"

Go to Gallery View...

This is pretty interesting. I didn't see 80 photos though (only 42), nor did I run across "dosk" or "slack"...am I missing something?

BTW, some of these photos were used in Texas Boots

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Re: Books, Manuals, Publications

#8 Post by dw » Fri Sep 20, 2002 6:42 am

Mark,

Oops, sorry...that link seems to be a bit flakey.

Instead, try this link--it's a few less steps, too:

Go to - http://lcweb2.loc.gov/ammem/mdbquery.html

and

-type "bootmaking shops - Texas".
-Change left lower box to "Match this exact phrase"

Go to Gallery View

And there's the full 84 photos.

BTW, some of these photos were used in Texas Boots

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Re: Books, Manuals, Publications

#9 Post by dw » Fri Sep 20, 2002 6:47 am

All,

BTW...it is interesting to note that in photo number 72...lo and behold!...the bootmaker is actually holing (pre-punching) the insole!!!

Would you look at that...my, my. Image

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Re: Books, Manuals, Publications

#10 Post by dw » Fri Sep 20, 2002 6:56 am

And photo 24...looks identical to the way I do it...right down to the the way the inside channel is done.

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Tex Robin

Re: Books, Manuals, Publications

#11 Post by Tex Robin » Fri Sep 20, 2002 7:06 am

DW,

Yes, they did pre-punch in those days. That was before they learned to do it right. Image ..TR

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Re: Books, Manuals, Publications

#12 Post by Tex Robin » Fri Sep 20, 2002 7:22 am

DW,

Someone needs to put this on a CD. Is it possible? I think it would be very useful to students...TR

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Re: Books, Manuals, Publications

#13 Post by dw » Fri Sep 20, 2002 7:57 am

Tex,

Just a story, of sorts...

Several years ago, I was talking to my Aunt Enid, who is the family historian, so to speak. I was lamenting all the gaps and holes in the record. Enid told me that her generation (that would be your generation, Tex) and her parent's generation (your father's), and even their parent's generation (your grandfather) were so aware...and ashamed...of their immigrant roots; so eager to fit in and be Americans, that they seldom gave much value to old photos or baptismal records and they often threw them away or simply lost track of them. They didn't want to be reminded.

Seems to me that there *is* a generation of people...bootmakers, included...who have deliberately forgotten their roots...who have lost track of what it took to get here and all the things that were valuable to that time. Frankly, and in my opinion, they are poorer for it...just as I am poorer for not having a complete record of my ancestors.

I've said this before...if you admire the work of an era...or a particular bootmaker who is no longer with us....it seems to me that the best way to get anywhere close to those standards of quality and beauty, is to study, and pay close attention to all the techniques that the man used to achieve them. Techniques evolve for a reason. Once upon a time, and particularly for the techniques that have been preserved and come down to us, the main emphasis was on quality. That was the field of competition. So the techniques evolved towards refinement and accuracy. Somewhere along the line...the Depression?...the field of competition became 'time to delivery' and 'reduction of operating costs.' And from that point on the techniques began to devolve, in my opinion...in my opinion. For me...just for me...the halcyon era was 1880-1930. Those are the standards I seek to emulate.

On the other subject, the photos are very probably already on CD...at the archive of the web address. But, that said, I hear you. And have already begun thinking about seeking the rights to reproduce the photos--on behalfof the Guild. Will let you know what comes of it.

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Tex Robin

Re: Books, Manuals, Publications

#14 Post by Tex Robin » Fri Sep 20, 2002 8:32 am

DW,

There is very little difference in the way I make boots now than in those days except for the modern materials that I have proven to be equal to the old and the use of the sander to replace the large knives to trim shanks or the gauging tools to rough in shanks,hand irons etc. My end result is the same and I think my boots show that
and I am about to the end of the trail with this arguement of methods. I have not forgotten my roots!...TR

fletch

Re: Books, Manuals, Publications

#15 Post by fletch » Fri Sep 20, 2002 1:16 pm

DW,

There is a photo around number 40 showing a bootmaker dipping some leather in a "Slack Tub" before using the leather.

The "Slacks/Dosks" was a joke in reference to an earlier discussion on sewing the welt.

It is really interesting going through those old photos. Glad they were found.

lenboden

Re: Books, Manuals, Publications

#16 Post by lenboden » Fri Sep 20, 2002 5:45 pm

D.W.,
Not to perpetuate arguments etc., but honestly I would hate to have to commute in a model T Ford, or plow with mules etc. I came from a long line of fancy furniture maker and I have one of their dining tables over a hundred years old. My great great great grandfather made fancy furniture in Cooperstown, N.Y. as one of the original settlers of the town with James Fennimore Coopers father for whom the town is named. They all used handtools and self propelled lathes to achieve their goals, some of which is in the local museum of Cooperstown. As tools and methods improved, so did they. Old ain't always good and good ain't always old. Good is good and bad is bad. We all want to be good. May we all achieve our hearts desire.
Len

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Re: Books, Manuals, Publications

#17 Post by bct » Fri Sep 20, 2002 6:24 pm

I was more curious about the thickness and the toughness of the inner and outer soles. The soles look like they are 3/4 inch thick. Not one good pegging sole PIC in the bunch, Darn I bet they ran out of film!

"Riding For The Brand"
Brian C. Thomas

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Re: Books, Manuals, Publications

#18 Post by rileycraig » Fri Sep 20, 2002 7:27 pm

Mark,

It's painfully obvious that you know very little, if anything, about bootmaking. Everyone, who is anyone, knows that you dosk before you slack...get with the program. (Grin)

Good Bootmaking,

Riley

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Re: Books, Manuals, Publications

#19 Post by dw » Fri Sep 20, 2002 7:49 pm

Len,

Point conceded...years and years ago. I do lots of things, and use lots of materials that the old time bootmakers would never have recognized. As you say good is good, bad is bad. But two considerations...the first is that until you actually try to do something the way it was done a hundred years ago...and actually get good at it...you will never know if the results or even the process itself yields quality or not, much less that ultimate goal--satisfaction. Someone who is used to nailing and doesn't want to learn to peg is not really capable of judging whether pegging is a step up or or a step down. And that person will always defend nails as the "best" and the "most advanced" and etcetera. Sometimes you can't transcend "bad" until you commit. You follow? Someone who really doesn't have their heart in it can try an old technique, like holing, and come away convinced that it's too much trouble. But like I say, techniques evolve for a reason. I've learned a heck of a lot from trying old techniques. Some I've embraced, some I've left behind.


The other point relates back to a previous post where I implied that techniques also evolve in a context. To borrow a phrase, "every form of refuge has its price." In other words, if you start with the idea that "getting them out the door" is or should be job one, then your attitudes about what is good and what is worth investing time and yourself in will be very different than if you accept that what you do is a "lifestyle" choice. And that "process"--the time spent splitting a bristle or holing the insole--is part and parcel of what you've chosen to do. Maybe I'm too old fashioned or too immersed in the "buckaroo" culture but the cowboys up in this country don't make a real living wage...not compared to what a mechanic makes, for instance. But that don't mean that they turn to atvs and Adidas come round-up time in the fall. Most of the "sure 'nuff" hands in this part of the country still ride everwhere (on horseback), still rope with rawhide reatas, still go out with the wagons and live in tents and tipis. That's why I say "sure 'nuff hands"...cus they're sure 'nuff living it. The money seems less important to them than the lifestyle. Crazy, huh?

I was having a similar discussion with someone the other day about the Civil War. It's hard, if not impossible, for people of this day and age to understand the mentality (and the raw courage) that was required of a man to advance into a wall of bullets and sure death. To understand you have to have been raised in that slower, more agrarian society. You have to have been raised with and have an unshakable faith in God and the life hereafter. To understand you have to have been raise with the concepts of honour and responsibility. And to top all of that off you have to actually live and be surrounded by a society that holds those same values dear. Few of us could do it.

Now just in passing because I can hear the craws grinding from here...I don't care one way or the other how a man does the work. I'm not gonna say it's "better" or worse or that any man is "wrong." I'm not in competition with anyone, and I'm not worried about giving away secret knowledge. And it's no skin off my back. I'm just thinking about this...thinking out loud...and analyzing the pros and cons from my perspective.

For what it's worth...nothing or everything, it's free.

PS...I will tell you this, however...in my not so humble opinion (IMNSHO) *all* the old tools of any repute are way better than *all* the new tools, even by the same manufacturer (excepting Dick Andersons tools, of course). What lesson can we draw from that, I wonder?

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Re: Books, Manuals, Publications

#20 Post by fletch » Fri Sep 20, 2002 8:11 pm

Riley,

I recall that DW had a "spritz" in there somewhere, but I can't remember if it is spritz, dosks, slacks, or dosks, slacks, spritz, or dosks, spritz, slacks. It's too technical and tongue-tying for me!

BTW, I am not a bootmaker, I just enjoy and proudly wear the fruits of great bootmakers dosking, spritzing, and slacking for me.

Mark

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Re: Books, Manuals, Publications

#21 Post by rileycraig » Sat Sep 21, 2002 6:30 am

Mark,

Actually, it was Tex who invented dosking, but I'm glad to see you have it in order. Although I'm a long way from being a "great" bootmaker I do appreciate the fact that you proudly wear, and enjoy, the fruits of our labors...thanks for saying as much.

Make it a great day.

Good Bootmaking,

Riley

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Re: Books, Manuals, Publications

#22 Post by dw » Sat Sep 21, 2002 6:36 am

From what I have been able to determine, the photos are offered, essentially without restriction, to the public as long as you don't use them to make a profit directly. You can't claim them as your own, for instance, and sell rights or reproductions. You almost unquestionably can download them and print them out and use them as an aid in teaching. If T.J. is monitoring this conversation perhaps he can contribute something more salient.

But some parts of the relevant disclaimers are:

"Photographs in this collection were taken by photographers working for the U.S. Government--The black-and-white photographs are part of the Farm Security Administration-Office of War Information Collection. Generally speaking, works created by U.S. Government employees are not eligible for copyright protection in the United States. However, they may be under copyright in some foreign countries and privacy and publicity rights may apply.

While the Library of Congress is unaware of any copyright in the FSA/OWI Black-and-White Photos, there is a narrow possibility that a very small number of items may have copyrights associated with them that we were unable to identify. Users are reminded that these materials are provided by the Library of Congress for educational and scholarly purposes and that transmission or reproduction of protected items beyond that allowed by fair use requires the written permission of the copyright owners. The nature of historical archival collections means that copyright or other information about restrictions may be difficult or even impossible to determine. Whenever possible, the Library provides information about copyright owners and other restrictions in the catalog records, finding aids, special-program illustration captions, and other texts that accompany collections. The Library provides such information as a service to aid patrons in determining the appropriate use of an item, but that determination ultimately rests with the patron."

And:

"As a publicly supported institution the Library generally does not own rights to material in its collections. Therefore, it does not charge permission fees for use of such material and cannot give or deny permission to publish or otherwise distribute material in its collections. It is the patron's obligation to determine and satisfy copyright or other use restrictions when publishing or otherwise distributing materials found in the Library's collections."

Additional text refers to the downloading of these images and explicitly suggests that high resolution copies suitable for publication are available at additional cost.


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Susan Bowen

Re: Books, Manuals, Publications

#23 Post by Susan Bowen » Fri Nov 15, 2002 9:15 am

Shoeinfo.net is not longer carrying the 3 volume set "Tips for Shoe Production" on design, patterns, and construction. But they can be ordered from the author for ~28 Euro (usually under $28.00).

Send your requests to:

Albert Wilhelm
Schillerstrasse 9
69239 Neckarsteinach
Germany

Best wishes,

Sue Bowen

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Re: Books, Manuals, Publications

#24 Post by paul » Thu Jan 23, 2003 12:01 pm

I recently got the George Koleff book on shoe designing with the geometric method. I love it. I've been playin' with the protractor and have done several of the exercises.
Now as you may recall from my previous posts, I'm sorta self taught. With DW's tutorials I'm makin' my way thru this boot and shoe makin' endeavor, aided by my 32 years of boot and shoe repair experience.
What I find myself needing now is some coaching on 'order of operations'. I can kinda figure where to start with some of these different designs, but I'd like to minimize my mistakes, of course. So, I'd like to ask if someone could point me at another book to add to my shoe making library, or would someone like to be my anwser man/coach?
I've learned so much reading the Colloquy, and know this is where I need to be right now.
An example of what I need to know is stuff regarding the counter on a Balmoral style. Or, another has to do with the lining on an elastic shoe boot. I'd like to do that style with a zipper, and could use alittle coaching.
So I'm hoping one of you may be able to point me in the right direction of another tutorial on shoe making or if someone who was familiar with the above mentioned book, could make themself available for a phone conversation occasionally.
Thank you in advance, PK

Frank Jones of Lancashire,

Re: Books, Manuals, Publications

#25 Post by Frank Jones of Lancashire, » Thu Jan 23, 2003 12:54 pm

Paul Krause

I would be happy to help in any way I can.

First I must declare an interest. I produced the “Pattern Cutter’s Handbook” which has become a standard students’ textbook in footwear Colleges and Universities around the world - Melbourne, Helsinki, Athens and New York, to name a few. The book is on the third reprint (Second Edition). I would be happy to mail you the brochure with full details, $ price etc.

The book has a whole chapter on producing the patterns for each of nine different styles, including what us Brits call an Oxford but is normally called a Bal or Balmoral in the USA. The book is written in a step-by-step format with two or three drawings on each page (139 pages with 304 diagrams). There is virtually a drawing for every stage of the process. One point, it is not a shoemaking book but a book on producing the patterns for the uppers.

The approach is different to Koleff. It uses the last as it starting point, not a geometric construction derived from measurements of the foot. Interestingly, nearly all pattern cutters who specialise in this area of work for footwear factories, use this approach or some variation on it.

As a former Head of the Footwear Department of one of the UK colleges, I would be happy to offer a little coaching. It would be easier face-to-face but I am prepared to try.

Looking forward to hearing from you. If you are happy about the idea, can I suggest we try and do it mostly “on-stage”, meaning on the Colloquy. If my experience at the AGM in October is anything to go by, there are others who would learn from the process.

Frank Jones
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