Lasts

[gshoes]

Nasser,

Thanks. Heel line is what I meant. Thanks for clearing that up. I thought that I was losing it. So you just make a decision based on the shoe and not an exact formula? How do you handle actually marking the soles of the shoes so the heels are symmetrical and line up straight to each other?

As far as the scoop lasts go. I gave it an attempt. I was not successful as the curve was cut after I started changing the contours to the last block.

7930.jpg

But I keep trying
Geri

[elstoof]

DW,

If the hollowed out feature you mentioned on the West End last is what i think it is (pictures just can't do these things justice eh?), then it's an attempt to reduce creasing when the shoe is worn. If it's left too "meaty" then the resulting creases can drive into the toes while walking causing considerable pain to the wearer. You see this on almost all of the older lasts but very rarely these days. I was told this was due to feet being generally larger than they were but, to my mind at least, the jury's still out..

Regards,
Nicholas

[dearbone]

Geri,whether the heel line or the heel height you meant,both questions were answered by me and Nicholas,there is no exact formula anywhere in shoe making,but there are grading charts needed for production,of course they are based on common sense and experience,it is not practical to make the heel line (back seam)5.2mm for all size 6 women shoes, every foot is different.

Lance,

nice looking last,have you made shoes on it? if you have,how did the heel curve line(back seam) worked for you?

Nasser

[lancepryor]

Nicholas:
Can you comment on the of heel shape that DW raised above? I think it would be interesting to learn what shape(s) you use for the back curve of the heel, and if there are any tradeoffs to using different shapes.

Nasser:

I've made a couple of pairs of shoes on these. The curve seemed to work fine, but of course my skills are sufficiently limited that I'm not sure a different heel curve would really affect the outcome much.

Lance

[dw]

Nicholas, all,

Hmmm...I am in the final quarter of scanning in and recognizing Golding Vol. I. Section Two is all about lasts and how to carve them. A page or two is devoted to "allowances." Meaning that if the foot is firm so much (an eighth inch, usually) might be added to the joint measurement. Or if the shoe is intended to just be worn for dress, so much might be subtracted from the measurement. There are a number of these "allowances", from usage, to age of the customer, to physiology, to the type of leather being used to make the shoe.

So, anyway your suggestion of the hollow over the dorsal surface being to prevent creasing strikes a familiar note. I'm not sure how it would play out, however, with the various allowances--how the hollow would increase or decrease what ever allowance is being contemplated.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[lancepryor]

DW:

Wow, I certainly look forward to seeing the Golding Vol I! Any idea when it will be ready for 'publication'?

Lance

[mack]

Hi all,
Just a few thoughts about the current last discussion.I think the idea of a 'west end last'
is a little misleading.All west end work is fully bespoke and so all lasts are made specifically for the customer, but each lastmaker has his own style and idea of how to achieve the best fit.Over the years I have worked for nearly all the London makers and a Terry Moore last is very different from a Lobb last as is a Gaziano or a Cleverley last.They all seem to satisfy their customers fit wise so it would seem there is no set way to make the last and customers also have very different ideas about what is a good fit.My personal favourites to work on are Terry Moore's.His balance of shape and style really help to make an elegant shoe. He is one of the few old school craftsmen left and has a whole wealth of knowledge about all aspects of shoemaking.
I believe feet have changed a lot in modern times.People are generally far heavier now and not used to well fitting shoes,trainers have a lot to answer for When I compare the old lasts I have to some of the modern lasts, the modern lasts are 'meatier' and the shoes less stylish .
I have experimented with some private work and my own shoes and have found the 'hollowing' has worked to reduce creasing but I can give no magic rule of thumb as I have been gradually reducing the lasts over 2 or 3 pairs of shoes to get what I feel is the correct fit.I look to the older shape lasts to try and achieve the nice flowing lines that help make an elegant shoe.
Boot and shoemaking seems to be a lifetimes work to learn and perfect (if that were possible ),perhaps that is what makes it so fascinating.
Regards Mack.

[lancepryor]

Mack:

Thanks for the insight. Pelle also told me that he liked Terry's lasts the best, so it is good to get that point of view seconded! With 55 years of experience, plus being trained at Peal & Co. (who were famous for their last shapes), I imagine that Terry has made more lasts than perhaps anyone else still working in the trade.

One question: when the last is 'hollowed' out, do you find it more difficult to get the leather down to the wood when lasting, or that simply a matter of having the pattern cut properly? I find that I have some difficulty getting a truly tight fit on the last at times, so any pointers would certainly be welcome.

Thanks,
Lance

[dw]

Lance,

Any idea when it will be ready for 'publication'?

Well,, I've been working on it for probably the better part of a year...and I've still got about a quarter of the book to scan in and recognize, and then I still have to set up the TOC and index to link to the relevant sections of the book or text.

The big issue is not the text however, it the predominance of "illustrations" in this book rather than lithographs in previous books.

And that by itself would not be such a problem except that most of these illustrations are "patterns" so they need to be precise.

That means I have to scan in the illustration and "trace" it and re-label it so that it is as clear in this facsimile as it is in the original. Hopefully clearer.

I would guess by the end of the year...if it don't rain and the crik don't rise.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member

[btippit]

To all:

The following public service announcement is brought to you by....me! That might sound odd after you read it.

There was an interesting post on "the other" forum this morning about a bootmaker who is now going to start making lasts. Here it is boot-lastmaker.

I just thought this might be another source for wood blanks or even custom lasts for those who would like some alternative resources.

Bill “The Last Man Standing” Tippit
www.globalfootwearsolutions.com

[relferink]

Lance,

A week or so ago you asked about last proportions.
The system I was taught and that is used in the European footwear industry was conceived by Prof. Schede. It puts the ball length at 62% of the last (that is the foot length + 15mm) The typical ball line runs at 76 to 77 degrees from the center line. I've read that German manufacturers use 80 degrees to match their average customer's feet.

Hope this answers you question.

Rob

[lancepryor]

To anyone who is interested in the last blanks, I am going to finalize my order this week, so if anyone wants to order some, please let me know ASAP so we can arrange things accordingly.

Thanks,
Lance

[danfreeman]

Back to the west end: I've made shoes for two clients who have had Lobb shoes made, and have brought me the shoes, and 3-piece custom trees, to "copy." All other considerations, including aspects of fit, aside, the most difficult characteristics I've had to deal with are the very low toe spring, and the almost straight (viewed in profile) heel curve. Often, these are noticed by the client, who asks for them--it's hard to explain why they make things more difficult. However, they work for Lobb, and I've been fairly successful in creating the look while maintaining the fit.
A recent article in the New Yorker about buying shoes (a frivolous puff piece) states that the New York City Lobb is now charging $5800 for shoes--$9000 for boots.

[jesselee]

DA,
Kinda got sidetracked with band and writing stuff. We were on a good thread about lasts. Somewhere you mentioned that you had never seen a set of lasts military marked during the Civil War. Neither have I.
BUT I am copying a pair of brogans right now from an original pair which I obtained with the lasts still in them (minus one cone). A cone is easy enough to make up, I have all sorts of mismatched lasts with and without cones.
I have done all the measurements and they seem to fit a set of tin patterns I have which I know come from Virginia during the war. So, in this case, no Arsenal markings. I do know they are a size 8 from the stamp.
My personal CW lasts were a 10 and now totally worn out and the measurements are a tad bigger on the size 8. Goes to show how different companies and shops had different size scales, and perhaps thats where the term 'gunboats' and other derogatory brogan terms comes in. For if a man knew he was a 7 and the brogans that the quartermaster issued him were marked 7, but a 10, you van see the reaction.
All in all, Civil War period lasts are superior as they have the right contour and rounded heel so the sole/heel is cradled, unlike the modern flat bottomed last.
I have also been comparing length, instep and ball measurements as well as width from my incomplete old sets. I am coming up with a graph of these measurements. Some lasts are accurately dated with the name and date for the client. That's only in 2 incomplete sets though. I have 2 sets of lovely 1920's lasts that the measurement scale produces an accurate reading.

BTW, this is my first official 'almost' production day. Finally got a motor for the line finisher... More on that in 'around the shop.

Lets keep this old last thread a goin'.
Cheers,
JesseLee

[clairemorgan]

Dear all,

I have been reviewing the internet and looking at ways of creating a last at home. I have been working with 2 lasts one for a boot and one for a ladies shoe. Making patterns and practicing lasting using felt and its getting better all the time.

However I felt that if I could make a copy of my feet it would be easier for me to understand what changes I need to make to my bought lasts. I also thought that I could then be making shoes for my children by making my lasts at home. More primitive but I want to get away from mass production and move into a simple life.

Has any one done this and how do you go about this?

Thank you every one in advance.

Claire

[clairemorgan]

Dear all,

I meant to add to this message that I am thinking in the realms of making a plaster cast or some thing in that vein.

Thank you
Claire

[fred_coencped]

Claire,The foot .ankle and leg can be cast with plaster bandages or with fibre glass STS casting socks to make a negative mold.After the negative mold is ready,adding a generous amount of talc or baby powder free of corn starch as a resist agent,the powder is shaken and sloshed around the negative mold and emptied of the powder so you are left with a thin residue inside the mold.

I stand the form vertical in a sand filled box and pour the plaster.

As every last has a heel height,a casting platform and appropriate toe spring should be prepared .A 1" fairly soft piece of foam is placed over the casting platform.While your subject is seated the foot sits on the foam covered casting platform with the leg vertical from both front and side orientations.

Remove the foot from its position and place a multi layered[4 ply]piece of plaster bandage over the foam and casting platform so the back will have a height at least to be level with the ankle bones.The front and sides will form to the height of the toes and to the sides of the foot only.You will form a pie crust edge.You want to use extra fast setting plaster bandage.

When this is dry you will add vaseline to the pie crust edge and form a second piece of 4 ply plaster to the top surface of the foot.This is called a Bi-Valve method.After you remove the top layer off the foot then the foot easily will slip out of the bottom section.

It is helpful to draw lines or hatch marks at a few points along the seams to re-align your pieces.Use strips of plaster bandage to seal your mold for pouring.

Be sure to balance your negative cast for pouring the plaster.The top of your positive mold will be your balance as on a regular last.

When you pull your postitive you will distort and discard your negative mold and be left with a mold of the foot.

Now you will have to add the toe extension and toe character,shape the cast into a shoe last and create the orthotic/insole to the bottom of the cast/last that the insole will represent the bottom of a standard last.

Note that all your girth measurements are the same as in measurements fo custom shoes before the addition of the orthotic/insole.I nickname this orthotic/insole as an "innersole"to differentiate from the normal Insole.It is removable from the finished shoe.

If you wish to not have the reovable innersole you cold fill the bottom of the cast with plaster and mimic the ordinary shoe last.

However you wll lose all of the heel shape,arches and overall forefoot to rear foot relationship.

Food coloring added to any and all additional plaster such as the toe extension,bottom fill etc,is very helpful.Molding plaster or plaster of paris is good.

If you make regular shoes or sandals the plaster last can be removed in one piece with a last hook.I add glue to the entire last and add 1" masking tape to keep it solid.Seal with any kind of sealer,acrylic spray,shllac or anything similar.Sprinkle talc on the last and upper lining and easily remove the last for more pairs.

You can get 3 or 4 pairs from a plaster last.Also clones or copies can be made easily.But if you wanted a refined dress shoe then you will need to make a clone/last from rigid urethane because the toe extension is finer for a dress shoe as plaster could break in lasting.

Hope this helps.OK,Fred

[large_shoemaker_at_large]

Claire
I admire your efforts.
As Fred well described the process. It is hard to make shoes fast enough as they grow! I made shoes for my girls till they wanted store bought. I also make friends first child a set of boots with a lightning strike with gold inlay as a personal gift.

Now I may open a can of worms. I bought a complete set of lasts from a former Canadian manufacturer of children's shoes lasts, dies, patterns . from real small to probably size 6 adult in a few widths including inflare and outflare for ortho work. equal to the 1 big kid ortho shoe maker in the U.S. starts with an M.

I have boxes of lasts in by shop, I could probably make a plaster copy for you.
Maybe B. Tippet would scan them and make copies avalible to all?

[fred_coencped]

Brendan,Claire,Just been reminded how to make a pair of last from second hand shoes.It is called 'IN SHOE CLONING'.Eyelets are taped up .Tape tops of low quarter shoes.Use talc as a resist same as negative plaster cast.Pour in your plaster and ,Done.

Be sure to get a stanley 1/2 round rasping file and metal mesh used by plasterers to shape your last .

I did this for customers and recently for my granddaughters.I`d pay a dollar or 2 for second hand shoes in the thrift stores and it works very well..

Brendan,Those last sound like a nice treasure.Also cutting dies,are they for a die press?
Patterns too.!Wow .are they graded ? I am curious.......

Claire,Best wishes with all this info.

Fred

[large_shoemaker_at_large]

Fred
I have thought of the cloning thing but never got around to trying it!
The dies are for a clicker press. I have not rooted thru all the boxes but I believe they are graded patterns.

I have only opened what I needed, there are even the "stock fitting" parts to align the parts prior to closing the upper. I have a Bata clicker outside all wrapped up as it it 3 phase and as posted in other threads I don't have access to 3 phase here and don't want a converter. So If any body wants a clicker free for the taking, just cover shipping.

Claire keep us updated and post pics.
Regards
Happy Ho HO
Brendan

[clairemorgan]

Dear Fred and Brendan,

thank you for your advice I have managed to find a supplier for the materials in the UK. The great thing about Fred's instructions is that they are related to boot making and I didn't know where to start. I really like the idea about filling an old pair of shoes with plaster.

The plaster supply company suggested to add a coat of resin that is flexible enough to take the tacks and strong enough to hold the cast together to lengthen its life. Also I have obtained lots of toe puff material that is heat mouldable and sets hard so I am hoping to include that in the cast to make it more like a true last.

The is really to get to understand how the foot works and how it fits well into a shoe and what makes a good fit and then how that relates to the last. My best friend has really bad feet she is in a wheel chair (broken back from horse riding) and I would love to make her some shoes to protect her feet. This could be the way forward

Its going to be a few weeks before pics as we start the holiday season in the UK and every thing stops until Jan 5!

But thank you folks you are all so kind and generous.

Claire. Happy holidays

[dearbone]

8819.jpg

Wow, finally the new lasts i ordered with lance are here, I think Bill has his hands in it, So thank you Bill,i have many lasts,but never brand new ones and these ones are very slick,they have spring release for the scoop,very cool,i guess am a little over joy,i will sand them down and made a pair of shoes soon.

Nasser

[lancepryor]

Here are a few pics of my first 'de novo' lasts, made using the same model of blanks as Nasser shows above and shown in the pics for comparison. I made what the British would perhaps call a 'smart round toe.' I'm in the process of making some fitters to check out the actual fit of the lasts, and then on to making an actual pair on these lasts.

8821.jpg

8822.jpg

8823.jpg

[jesselee]

Lance

Nice looking lasts. I noticed the cone is almost centered. Civil War and before lasts had a centered cone. The offset cone, to the inside of the foot was an 1870's development and by the 20's it was so exagerated that I would imagine the pattern of a shoe would have to be compensated for ie. a left and right pattern.

JesseLee

[lancepryor]

Thanks, JesseLee.

I think the cone is actually pretty far to the inside -- eyeballing it, I'd say it is 2/3 to 3/4 of way from the outside margin to the inside margin of the last. So, I think the pictures may be misleading in regarding the cone's position.

I am looking forward to seeing what Nasser does with these blanks.

Lance