Tools

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M. Volken

Re: Tools

#51 Post by M. Volken » Mon Aug 22, 2005 12:30 pm

Thanks so much for posting by proxy, I am such a computer spazz- as can be seen by fuzzy photos taken using automatic focus. . .

The tools are copies made by a blacksmith from The Iron Museum in Vallorbe Switzerland from 1:1 scale drawings from roman archaeological finds.

Picture 1
a oval punch, makes a 'C' shaped cut, after manning E33, England.
b & c, 'leatherworking awls, one with wood knob, one not yet fitted.
d knife, from Haltern germany, beginning 1st century AD, raw state, needs handle.
e 'awl' from Trier Germany, in raw state.
f octogonal awl, probably transformed from a wood working chisel, Winterthur Switzerland.
g & h double pyramid awls, one fitted with knob and one not yet fitted, from Haltern, but many identical examples found all over Europe.
i double pyramid awl with integral knob, from Augsburg, but many examples from the 2cnd century AD in Europe.

picture 2
nailing anvil ( from Saalburg germany but others found in France, England and Germany) and nailing hammer found in Vidy, Lausanne. This is the only hammer I know of in the roman archaeological record identified as a shoemakers nailing hammer. One face is round and the other square. The long narrow head gives more driving power for nailing and clinching the cone headed nails on roman footwear.

picture 3
two Augsbug awls, a Haltern awl, the nailing hammer, a knife (like picture 1 but with handle) two oval punches, Manning E33 and Avenches ( from the catalogue of iron tools in Avenches Switzerland, by A. Duvachelle, 2005). This picture shows all the tools needed to make any roman shoe ( plus the nailing anvil for nailed shoes)

Marc, thanks for posting the MOL awl, is in Manning too but I can't remember the number offhand. I have often wondered about it as there are no other ones like it from roman contexts, especially with a ferrule. There are tanged blades for wood handled awls in roman contexts, but as far I as I have been able to see, no other turned wood handle like this. The blacksmith who made the double pyramid awls said that these awls were quite clever as the double pyramid is actually a reserve of iron that can be smithed out if the blade breaks or wears down.

tomo

Re: Tools

#52 Post by tomo » Mon Aug 22, 2005 1:57 pm

Hey Marc,
maybe it's a tool for burnishing the edges of leather...?
Interesting.
Paul, thanks for the origin of the nudie boot.
More power to y'awl
T.

Other Volken

Re: Tools

#53 Post by Other Volken » Tue Aug 23, 2005 9:15 am

Marc, have you seen similar awls from mediaeval context? Just wondering and too lazy to go over my books Image

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Re: Tools

#54 Post by marc » Tue Aug 23, 2005 12:25 pm

Yes and no. The one that resembles it most is from the Mary Rose:
3685.jpg
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This is different, but not terribly different from one that was found in London in the 19th century and is now at the Royal Ontario Museum:
3684.jpg
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Other Awls found in London that are presumed to be shoemaking include these:
3683.gif
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Please excuse the drawings but the MOL has a fairly strict request to not send out my photos.

These are similar to awls found in Greenland:
3682.jpg
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I have a reproduction of the one with the neck, and I love it. Or did before the tip snapped off.

In the artwork from the 14th and 15th centuries, they seem to look like
3681.jpg
and
3680.jpg
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.

I have interpretative reproductions of most of these, and have had good success with most of them using straight blades.

One amusing thing I have noticed from the repros, expecially those with a bit of a tail, is that most of the artwork that shows a shoemaking holding an awl, it looks like he's got a fat cigar squirting out of his hand, which is what you get when you hold on to the rear of the bulge and the "tail"

So it's possible that the "Roman" one in the MOL is in fact, medieval, but I'm not going to tell them Image

Marc

Other Volken

Re: Tools

#55 Post by Other Volken » Tue Aug 23, 2005 1:16 pm

Yes the Mary Rose one rings a bell, I guess it was the one that made me think of an eventual more recent origin. I just had a look at the few awls shown in deGarsaults. The shapes are similar but they have in common the MoL roman awl the long ferrules. Al, any hints in post mediaeval?

You're right not to tell them, usually it makes people cranky to discover boo-boos. It reminds me about a 10th C. find where the only examples chosen for the exhibit where exclusively those shoes with heavy thick soles and stacked heels....right. :-/

shoestring

Re: Tools

#56 Post by shoestring » Fri Dec 22, 2006 12:45 pm

I discovered that I have two "German Awls" after opening an ebay auction box.The blades do need sharping but my question is this are they suppose to be thick blades or should they be horned down to do an effected job.Thanks

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Re: Tools

#57 Post by dw » Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:00 pm

What do they look like? Got a photo?

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Re: Tools

#58 Post by shoestring » Sat Dec 23, 2006 1:55 pm

4609.jpg
These are the awls I was talking about.I cleaned up the handles a bit but the blades needs extensive sharpening.

Ed

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Re: Tools

#59 Post by dw » Sun Dec 24, 2006 7:52 am

Thanks for posting the photo, Ed.

Sharpen these by all means but I do not think you need to thin or narrow them a bit.

One of the advantages of this type of awl, if you are "holing" or inseaming from the inside channel to the feather, is that the hole that is left in the vamp and the welt is considerably smaller than the hole left in the holdfast. This is simply due to the taper of the awl, but it tends to help seal the vamp and the interior of the boot from the elements.

At the same time you wouldn't want to weaken the awl by removing its "backbone."

I like this type of awl for certain areas of the insole and for holing (obviously the German makers like them too) but I wouldn't want to have only this type of awl.

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Re: Tools

#60 Post by tjburr » Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:02 pm

I was not exactly sure where to post this random thought....

As some of you know, I have been involved with making Renaissance shoes for a faire. As part of this I own costume items and accessories. One of these accessories is several forged forks, all which are very pointed. One of these happened to get itself lodged in a leather belt I own and it brought to mind the old comment that

"that shoes can be made with a knife, a fork"

It made me wonder how pointed forks during period really were and of course I had to perform a search and found many pointed examples
8706.jpg
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This particular one from the 5th century http://www.clevelandart.org/Explore/work.asp?searchText=1987.210&recNo=0&tab=2&display=

So the gap between an awl and a fork might not have been that much Image

I also found a very interesting folding tool, for those who find this type of tying interesting.


from 3rd century http://www.fitzmuseum.cam.ac.uk/opac/search/cataloguedetail.html?&priref=70534&_function_=xslt&_limit_=10


Have a good day!
Terry

(Message edited by admin on January 06, 2009)

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Re: Tools

#61 Post by artzend » Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:44 pm

Terry

That has to be the first Swiss army knife. It even seems to have one of those things for taking stones out of horses hooves that they don't put in any more.

Tim

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Re: Tools

#62 Post by tjburr » Mon Jan 05, 2009 9:15 pm

Tim,

I like the analogy!

I'm not sure which part is for taking stones out. I would have to dig out some books to make sure, but I believe that the second tool from the right is what was called an "ear scoop" for removing wax from the ear.

I'm not sure I need those in my swiss army knifeImage

Terry

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Re: Tools

#63 Post by artzend » Mon Jan 05, 2009 11:06 pm

Terry

The long pointy one on the right looks like the horse hoof thing. You used to get them on boy scout knives.

I'm not too keen on the ear idea, you could hurt yourself.

They still make the knife fork and spoon sets. Obviously nothing is new. I guess it should realistically be called a Roman army knife.

Tim

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Re: Tools

#64 Post by admin » Tue Jan 06, 2009 6:01 am

I think the hooked tool would...if it really is an early version of its supposed modern equivalent...be called a "hoof pick."

BTW, the photo that was attached to this post has been deleted due to copyright concerns. This was done at the request of the OP (original poster). The link above will still take the reader to a photo fo the tool.

Emmett

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Re: Tools

#65 Post by marc » Tue Jan 06, 2009 5:25 pm

Terry, just a thought -- While I can and have made shoes with a fork, you won't make spectacularly good shoes with a fork Image

You use it in the same way you use one of those stitching forks, so unless your fork can take repeated wacks with a mallet, you may have some problems.

BTW, nice pics.

Marc

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Re: Tools

#66 Post by tjburr » Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:06 pm

With the fork I have, which has two very sharp tines like this picture, I was
actually thinking of using one tine like an awl.

If the tine I have was slightly curved up, I would think it would make a reasonable awl.

Speaking of which....

I purchased a book and the person selling it sent me a handful of awls that he said he had laying around and hoped I had a use for. I was very excited since, yes I had a use for them.

In fact several were quite interesting in that they looked like better awls than I had had the luck of finding. An example of one of the awls is
8709.jpg
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This one has the word KING on the side. This seemed to be the nicest style of the bunch.

Does anyone know what the actual brand name is? Can they still be purchased?

Tim,
I do like the term Roman army knife! I would have to look in my history book to see if the swiss were part of the Holy Roman empire during this period; maybe it actually came from the area we know as Switzerland and the swiss army knife has a very long history.

Terry

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Re: Tools

#67 Post by das » Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:52 am

Terry,

I believe "King" brand are made in Germany. I just received an order of them from Seigenthaler in Switzerland, 50 mm. tiny curved awls for uppers closing, and really long slightly curved "heel" awls.

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Re: Tools

#68 Post by dw » Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:11 am

Al, Terry,

First, let me say how much I hate you, Al! Image I tried to get Seigenthaler to sell me awls (just ten each of about 6 sizes and shapes--I tried to order a hundred of each size but they wouldn't accept such a large order) several years back and after a long and agonizing correspondence back and forth, they just sort of clammed up and wouldn't accept the order. Someone who was familiar with dealing with them (can't remember who now--might have been OtherVolken) told me that they probably just decided if they sold that many awls out of country they wouldn't have enough for Swiss shoemakers. Sheesh!

Anyway...I used to get awls from Barnsley, in lots of 100, and they were all King. The sample awls Seigenthaler first showed me were old stock, mostly, and had no brand on them. Those were the prime awls too, I'm here to tell you. As good as the King are (where ever they come from) they are nowhere near as good as that old stock. Even the old stock Barnsleys, of which I got a few when Barnsley was being dismantled, and which were labled Barnsley (mostly but no Kings) weren't as good as the old stock Seigenthalers. Probably better than the contemporary Kings, though.

Having said all that, 90% of the awls I have, and use, are Kings. They are good..they just need sharpening and maybe some refinement of the tang.

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(Message edited by dw on January 07, 2009)

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Re: Tools

#69 Post by dearbone » Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:12 am

Al,

I will go a little easy on you and say, I am envious, i spend hours rasping and reducing my broken awls to make upper sewing awls and once when i had to stitch a pair of heels for Fred using a large inseam sewing awl,i got blisters on my hand,i read a description of the heel awl in Hasluck,but never seen one,how long is the heel awl?
Good find.

Regards
Nasser

marcell

Re: Tools

#70 Post by marcell » Wed Jan 07, 2009 2:51 pm

I have really old tools - some of them are older than 100 years. I was always considering to reproduce them and now I have a chance: I found an old tool maker, who actually made these kind of tools 30 years ago: heel and sole edge irons, etc.. I had to consider him to make some new, as he is retired, but finally he accepted to make a few sets.
If someone is interested here, please contact me at info@koronya.com and I will give some more details.

chuck_deats

Re: Tools

#71 Post by chuck_deats » Thu Jan 08, 2009 8:28 am

Have to put in a plug for Dick Anderson at http://www.thornappleriverboots.com/. Tell him what you want and he will make it. Excellent quality and a nice guy.

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Re: Tools

#72 Post by romango » Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:38 am

In "Handmade Shoes for Men" page 155. He shows a picture of using a "stitch marker", the little teeth grip the thread between the stitches and pull it up slightly.

The picture shows the tool in use but you cannot see the "little teeth". I'm wondering if this is a normal stitch marker, with teeth pointing straight down. If so, how would it grip the thread?

Or are the teeth at a right angle to facilitate getting under the stitch?

Does anyone have a picture of such a tool?

marcell

Re: Tools

#73 Post by marcell » Thu Jan 08, 2009 2:41 pm

Rick, I have the TOOL. I can send you a close up picture about it if you want.

Chuck - I sure he can. but as I am in Hungary, it is closer, and most probably more affordable for me. But you can choose your tool maker for sure. The reason why I trust in this old guy - he worked for IRING, which is the Rolls Royce of tools (I have seen many, and have a huge collection).

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Re: Tools

#74 Post by dearbone » Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:24 pm

Rick,

There are two pics of the same tool in the previous page, 153 and as you see there are no teeth on the right angle of the tool.but this is what i think (I stand to be corrected) what the shoe maker is doing, he is pressing his tool on the holes to give the stitch a dome-like shape instead of the flat, I recently made a similar tool using a usm made tack puller, it's shape fit the roundness of the feather of the last perfectly, and with some filing and sanding you can even determine the the width of the stitch marker.

Nasser

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Re: Tools

#75 Post by dw » Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:42 pm

Rick,

Look on page 153 of HMSFM, there are two photos of that same tool one in the upper part of the page, one in the middle. In essence it is a double stitch prick.

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