THE GOOD OLD DAYS?

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Re: THE GOOD OLD DAYS?

#101 Post by farmerfalconer »

Believe me, I believe you! Thats why I have gone back to trousers!
How can you see the other cobbler images? I tryed navigating the site in english but had a hard time doing searches.

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Re: THE GOOD OLD DAYS?

#102 Post by proxy_posting »

“A cobbler in his place” :)
cobblers_place.jpg
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Re: THE GOOD OLD DAYS?

#103 Post by dmcharg »

My wife just came across this article about a shoe shop that had been closed since the 1960's. Step back in time.
Enjoy

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... dusty.html



A sample pic to whet your appetite
1416114535830_wps_11_A_Redditor_by_the_name_of.jpg

Cheers
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Re: THE GOOD OLD DAYS?

#104 Post by das »

From the “FOOTWEAR REPAIRER”, VOL. 2: no 7. London April 1948
” + + NEWS ITEM + BRISTOL AND PLYMOUTH ASSOCIATIONS OF BTA HAVE SENT RESOLUTIONS TO WESTERN D.C. URGING COUNCIL TO ASK NATIONAL UNION OF JOURNALISTS AND ALL NEWSPAPERS EDITORS TO STOP USING THE OFFENSIVE WORD “COBBLER” IN THE PRESS + +
A MORAL libel, or slander, as the case may be, is issued or committed every time the plural noun”cobblers” is used to describe that skilful craftsmen who literally keep the nation on its feet.
I use the term “moral libel” because it is not an actionable libel. It has been held by the courts that you cannot libel a class. You may say with impunity, for example, that all politicians are rogues, but you would be a foolish man indeed if you said Mr. BLANK, who is a politician , is a rogue, for Mr. BLANK would doubtless haul you up before one of His Majesty’s judges, who would in due process of law, order you to pay Mr. BLANK a sum of money calculated to compensate him for the injury to his reputation.
You cannot libel a class, ah ! —but you can libel an individual, as we all know and it would not surprise me the least if one of these days a shoe maker sought redress in the courts because he had been described as a cobbler by the newspaper.
WHAT THE DICTIONARIES SAY
-OXFORD ENGLISH DICTIONARY: Cobbler: One who mends clumsily; a mere botcher.
Cobble : A clumsy mending.
- CONCISE ENGLISH DICTIONARY: Cobble : to botch, to make do clumsily or unhandily,
Cobbler : A mender of boots and shoes; a clumsy workman.
-UNIVERSAL ENGLISH DICTIONARY : Cobble : To do lumpy work, To mend or make, sew, in a rough, clumsy manner.
Cobbler : One who mends boots and shoes as a trade; (facetious) bootmaker, especially one in a small way of business; clumsy, bad workman of any kind.
What a hopeless task indeed confronts our intrepid reformer who would root out a word immortalized in saga and song, literature and legend.
The origin of “cobbler” is unknown. The earliest reference I can trace is from the writings of Thomas Langley (1362), The monk-poet of Norfolk, who ups with his quill and outs with “Clement be cobelere cast off his cloke,” a meaningless piece of alliteration that has somehow wandered into the Oxford English Dictionary. Of course there were shoe repairers thousands of years before friend Clement cast off his cloke, but whether they were branded as cobblers will never be known.
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Re: THE GOOD OLD DAYS?

#105 Post by dw »

:thumb:

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Without "good" there is no "better," without "better," no "best."
And without the recognition that there is a hierarchy of excellence in all things, nothing rises above the level of mundane.
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Re: THE GOOD OLD DAYS?

#106 Post by proxy_posting »

Interesting link to a pdf book on shoemaking poetry in the 18th century. Can be read free online or downloaded for a small fee.

http://www.jstor.org/stable/41467879
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Re: THE GOOD OLD DAYS?

#107 Post by dmcharg »

My beautiful wife, Sandra, came across this yesterday. And, yes, he is a cobbler, but has high talents in 'pin work' on the soles, as well as decorative cuts to the heel breast and 1/2 sole.
http://www.britishpathe.com/video/cobbl ... ry/artists
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Re: THE GOOD OLD DAYS?

#108 Post by michael_anthony »

1812 APPRENTICE SHOEMAKER ENDENTURE
Pittgrove, 27 August 1812. One page, 8.25" x 13.25"
Endenture between shoemaker Isaac Alderman and apprentice Ananias Nelson.
Apprentice Shoe-maker Endenture.jpeg
Reads in full (with grammatical corrections):
"This endenture made this twenty seventh day of August eighteen hundred and twelve witnesses that Ananias Nelson son of Ananias Nelson of Pittgrove hath bound himself apprentice to Isaac Alderman of the same place to serve him as an apprentice the full term of four years four months. His security keep his lawful command & obey. At cards dice or any other unlawful game he shall not play. He shall do no damage to his said master nor cause it to be done by others without giving his said master notice. He shall not commit fornication nor contract matrimony within said term but in all things behave himself as becomes a faithful apprentice and his said master shall use his utmost endeavors to instruct and course said apprentice to be instructed in the art of shoemaking which he now followeth and shall procure for said apprentice sufficient meet drink and apparel washing and lodging, give him five months schooling and a set of shoemakers tools for the true performance of this endenture. We each set our hands and seals this 27th day of August 1812 in presence of"
Signed by Ananias Nelson with "his mark" and Isaac Alderman, along with John Alderman and Joel Elwell.

(This original document is displayed at my boot shop in order for my apprentices to take notice of how it was in the "good old days.")
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Re: THE GOOD OLD DAYS?

#109 Post by das »

Nice!
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Re: THE GOOD OLD DAYS?

#110 Post by das »

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Re: THE GOOD OLD DAYS?

#111 Post by SharonKudrle »

An archival newspaper article from the Newburyport News, from the Newburyport Public Library and available on their website -

Shoe Making in Olden Days
Newburyport News 4-17-1903

The evolution of a shoemaker is a most interesting study,’ remarked the retired shoe manufacturer to an exchange 'The shoemaker as a man, has |undergone many changes in three generations right here in Lynn, and a
shoemaker before the war would be likely to lose his fingers in the machinery, if he got a job in a factory of today, while the shoemaker of today would be like a rider of a 20th century bicycle on an old-fashioned high wheel, if he were suddenly thrust into a “10-footer,’ or shoe shop, of before the war. Times have changed, and men have changed with them, or, rather, men have changed the times.

Whittier idealized shoemaking of the old school in his poem “Cobbler Keezar’s Vision” in which he tells of Keezar upon the hillside, upon his form, and his pan of coals on either side to keep his waxed ends warm.
“and there in golden weather
he stitched and hammered and sung
In the brook he moistened his leather
In the pewter mug his tongue,”

Try to think of a shoemaker of today sitting on the hillside and hammering and singing and moistening his leather in a brook, not Strawberry brook, either, and you will discover the difference in the schools.

The old-time shoemaker labored in his ten footer in his back yard, using few and simple tools, and doing everything by hand. He worked from sunrise to sunset, and sometimes by candle or whale oil light. He made with the help of his apprentices and perhaps his wife, who sewed uppers for him, a case of shoes a week, and Saturdays he carried the shoes to the factory to get his stock for the next week, and his pay, seldom cash, and often an order on the store.

Now the shoemakers of this school were reputed wise men. Their work did not call for concentration of the mind, and they read or talked as they worked. The Bible and the dictionary were the principal literature of the old shop, so the shoemakers could not help absorbing solid wisdom, and all the leading subjects of the day were discussed.
“We can only consider the shoemakers of the old school as a wise and good men, sort of a sound foundation of the new school. Unlike the shoemaker of today, the old timer had no complicated machinery to understand, nor no wages and hours of labor system to fairly adjust. He had plenty of time to work and play, and his wants were few. The old timer did not require the skill nor the accuracy of the shoemaker of today. Shoes were made on straight lasts and many measurements and much cutting, sewing and shaping of the shoe was done by the eye. Shoe wearers were not so particular about the fit and style of their shoes in old days.

“The old timer made a whole shoe himself, the shoemaker makes only a part of the shoe, there being 98 operations and one man to each operation in making a shoe today. The old timer had his ten-footer, the shoemaker of today has his six-story brick factory. The old timer had his lap stone, his hammer, stirrup, whet board, pincers, short sticks, long sticks, knives, scraper and a dozen other tools according to his wealth, the shoemaker of today, has his cutting board and knife, his sewing machines, pulling over machines, lasting machines and a dozen and one other complicated devices in place of the simple hand tools. The shoemaker of the old school put out a heavy shoe to wear well, the shoemaker of today must make a shoe to meet the demands of the season and the fancies of fashion. The old timer worked by candle or whale oil light; the man of today works by gas or electricity when necessary. The old timer knew nothing of elevators, steam heated factories, telephones, electric cars and a dozen and one other common conveniences of the shoemaker of today.

Now, the point I want to make by this long comparison is that today provides more and demands more from shoemakers than did the old school. The shoemakers of today cannot begin at the trade where their fathers did, but must begin where their fathers left off. Therefore, the shoe trade is constantly demanding men of greater skill and intelligence, and by reason of this increased skill and intelligence the shoemakers are receiving increased pay. Although reports of cuts in wages are occasional, yet the general tendency of wages in this country has been to advance, and statistics prove it. Now this increased skill, intelligence and wages is bringing to each and every shoemaker a greater amount of worldly comforts.

We cannot look back on the old time school and say shoemakers enjoyed as much as they do today. As I have pointed out above, the old timers never know about telephoning, riding in electric cars and steam heating of shops. Besides they seldom saw a newspaper, had but few good books, had small churches, never dreamed of the splendor of a 20th century theatrical production nor a summer resort, nor of a thousand and one luxuries of shop, home and city offered the shoemaker of today. But they were happy because they did not know of these good things.

This increase of skill and intelligence brings a duty home to every shoemaker and each duty has its rewards. The increase of skill and intelligence not only results in a better shoe, but it causes a greater distribution of machinery, wealth and comforts, which is then a man of skill and dexterity of life. The shoemakers have changed from men of skill and dexterity of the hand and eye and of simple habits and wants to strenuous workers of the 20th century, masters of complicated machinery, producers of an article of necessity, comfort and beauty at a reasonable cost, and participants in the enjoyment of the many advantages and luxuries of an increasing civilization, of which their predecessors of two generations ago knew nothing.

“The shoemakers of today are bigger men that their grandfathers, have a superior skill and training and also greater responsibilities.”

Newburyport MA public library website:
http://newburyport.advantage-preservati ... 7&cid=2710


Thursday 4/16/1903
Funeral of Luther Lord.
The funeral of Luther Lord took place from his late home on High street yesterday afternoon at 2:00. There was a large number of sympathizing friends and relatives present at the services. Mr. Lord passed away on Sunday after a long illness. He was for years employed as a grave digger and care taker at the cemeteries.

Mr. Lord was born in Ipswich, Aug 29, 1819, and has always resided in the house wherein he died. He was one of a family of eleven children and one sister, Miss Susan Lord of North Main street is the only remaining member of the family.

The parents of Mr. Lord were both born in town and were life long residents here. Mr. Lord was married three times, his first wife being Miss Martha Seward of this town, and to them two children were born, Mrs. Wm P. Ross and Luther a. Lord, both of whom are now alive. His second wife was Miss Elizabeth Seward, a sister of his first wife, and after her death he married Miss Sarah E. Archer, who now survives him. By trade Mr. Lord was a shoemaker. Of late years he has not followed up his trade but has acted as superintendent of the Locust Grove cemetery. He was a man of noble character and made many friends for himself. Although well advanced in years he retained his faculties up to the time of his death. He was a kind father and a true and devoted husband and for years was a regular attendant at the Methodist church.
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Re: THE GOOD OLD DAYS?

#112 Post by salsa »

Ah yes, the Romance of the ShoeFactory: The halcyon days when 'wage slaves' mindlessly did one job over and over again, through equally mindless weeks and years. Never knowing, never caring, never needing to care, what the end result might be. Stalwart, strenuous New Age Champions of "reasonable cost" and maximum profit. Captains of Industry, bestriding the continents, head and shoulders over their "simple" predecessors who, in their diminished skill and intelligence "knew nothing."

Interesting article. :devil:
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Re: Historic techniques and materials

#113 Post by SharonKudrle »

:tiphat: 17th century Pilgrim shoes :
Basically, I have questions about puritan/pilgrim shoes for women that don't have holes in the sides (since I think they're impractical). Do they exist?
The first Massachusetts puritan pilgrims had spent 10 years in Holland and resisted assimilation there; they were religious and not high fashion consumers, and they had the info from the hardships that Jamestown suffered, so what did they pack for footgear? They were headed for Jamestown but had to stay in Plymouth when they got off course and it was too late in the year to continue to Jamestown.

Most of the repro shoes have the “holes in the sides” which you’ve told me are called pont levee. I think I’ve seen in paintings closed sided latchet tied shoes with high vamps on peasants combined with black stockings and these are probably not the expensive black dyes but the inexpensive soot and ironblack I’m guessing, with wool from black sheep used for the stockings.

I looked on the internet for Elizabethan shoes, and found most on the Mary Rose. When did they ditch the ‘spring’ heels and and wear normal ones or were they worn at the same time? The Mary Rose shoes look more to me like the Breugel 17c peasant shoes in his paintings. What did the common English and Dutch wear? The pilgrims must have been fairly poor and not likely to send to England for shoes although they may have bought some before they set sail on the Mayflower. I am waiting on my replacement copy of Goubitz - "Stepping Through Time" for sketches of Dutch shoes. I don't have enough overall knowledge and facts. Somehow, I just KNOW that Al Saguto will know… He can combine all the relevant information from Europe and from America.
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Re: THE GOOD OLD DAYS?

#114 Post by das »

"Close" shoes (no open sides), as Randal Holme (1688) called them, from the 1620s survive archaeologically, as well as in art history. I'll append some Dutch examples from Beurtschip (ferry-barge) B 71, which sank in the mid-late 1620s. The shoes recovered belonged to a mix of local-Dutch passengers, and German (seasonal German migrant agricultural laborers). In the 1620s you'd be hard-pressed to distinguish male/female shoes stylistically perhaps by size, as the styles were still very unisex all across the social spectrum. There are only two examples of "close" shoes from Jamestown (c.1607-1620 contexts), one is a slip-on (like Mary Rose/Red Bay), the other had the vamp cut to form clever integral lace tabs (similar to some you'll see in Goubtiz) at the instep, the rest found there were all open-sided "draw bridge" (pont levee) style. "Spring" heels were never "ditched", they continued into the 1800s. When did stacked leather heels built above the outer sole become dominant/common, versus "spring" heels built below a continuous outer sole? Good question. My current feeling is, somewhere around 1630-40s, based on the fact that few if any examples survive before that date, except clumsy repairs/rebuilds. The Plimouth colony was in fact 100% dependent on shoe imports from London at the outset. March 16, 1628, they ordered from London Shoemaker Robert Harret 8 dozen pairs, sizes 10-13, "according to the pattern", whatever pattern that may have been. In 1629 they stipulated 400 pairs for 100 men (4 pair each). The 26 Feb. 1628 order they placed with John Hewson (London) for 8 pairs describing them as: "welt(ed) neat's leather shoes, crossed on the outside with a seam, to be substantial good over leather (uppers), of the best, and two soles, the inner sole of good neat's leather, and the outer sole of tallowed backs." "Crossed on the outside with a seam" is a vague description of whatever the uppers pattern was--no mention of holes in the sides either. March 6, 1629, they ordered from shoemaker John Wise, Mark Lane, London 10 dozen pairs in sizes 8-13s to be delivered in 11 days!

Glad you think I have all the answers, I wish I did :crackup:
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Re: THE GOOD OLD DAYS?

#115 Post by das »

B71 1620-30 close shoes.jpg
Oh, the pix from B 71.....
B71 close shoe.jpg
B71 slipon.jpg
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Re: THE GOOD OLD DAYS?

#116 Post by das »

The middle one above appears to be one of the interesting Dutch vamps-slit-to-form-latchets to tie styles you may also see in Goubitz. The bottom one, the slip-on, is very reminiscent of the older Tudor styles as seen off the Mary Rose. Interesting that style held on into the 1620s. There is a very similar one from the Vasa (1628), a child's.
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Re: THE GOOD OLD DAYS?

#117 Post by das »

SO 1 Wadden Sea 1593.png
Really stretching things, but if "Mary Rose" styles were still being made/worn in the 1620s, you might raise the Puritan's eyebrows with 1593, Dutch shoes from Scheurrak SO 1, which sank in the Wadden Sea off Texel
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Re: THE GOOD OLD DAYS?

#118 Post by das »

Vasa closed shoe.jpg
And just so it's over here in the same thread, the 1628 Vasa "close" shoe (again).
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Re: THE GOOD OLD DAYS?

#119 Post by das »

Leather%20shoes%20discovered%20by%20MOLA%20at%20the%20Crossrail%20site%20near%20Charterhouse%20(c)%20Crossrail.jpg
Another possibility with no holes? Similar pattern with integral lace tab cut from vamp. This was picked-up by a Thames Mudlark, so no archaeological context, but not impossible it's from the 1620s.
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Re: THE GOOD OLD DAYS?

#120 Post by das »

Vasa Close Shoe.jpg
And another close shoe off Vasa (1628).
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Re: THE GOOD OLD DAYS?

#121 Post by SharonKudrle »

Please can I ask a few questions re. construction details ?

Did they re-sole spring heeled shoes or toss them?
Guess they are welted all around?
Were 1620 shoes straight or crooked?
Garsault wrote at one point that some outer soles of that 1700s era were flesh out, was that for outdoor shoes or indoor?
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Re: THE GOOD OLD DAYS?

#122 Post by das »

A repairer is not bound to rebuild a shoe the way it was made, and spring heels are a PITA to make, much less mend. This being said, there are "billions" (seems like) of repaired 17thc spring heels, some repaired as spring heels, others with extra bits just pegged on top of the worn heel. When you get your Goubitz book you'll see plenty.

Spring heeled 17thc (English) shoes were generally welted, or randed (stitched-, sewed-, blind-rands, an even whip-stitched!), all the way around, yes. Again Olaf does a great job of clearly illustrating most of these.

Can't file-dive for exact percentages, or pan-European finds, right now, but the two biggest early 1600s collections I'm familiar with (Vasa and Jamestown Island) have both. Vasa had shoe lasts survive too, maybe 8-10, some straight, some pairs L&R. Thing to bear in mind as well, even though the lasts went straight for economy (though Elizabeth I had a "pair of straights"--it's good to be the queen) when heels begin, the uppers were not infrequently still cut L&R, fitting only one foot, right up through mid century. And, even symmetrically cut, "straight", uppers show pronounced wear on one foot, becoming L&R only through wear. You'd be hard-pressed to find many examples that show swapping over from foot to foot/symmetrical wear. The only sure telltale sign of swapping is perfectly mirrored, crisscrossing wrinkles, usually on the underside of the vamp above the joints (often lost on restored or overly stuffed museum examples, even if you can peer down inside with a flashlight).

Flesh/grain outer soles in the 1700s seem, provisionally, more of a regional thing. IIRC, flesh-out outer soles were more common on German shoes, maybe some French, very few if any English. NB: a lot of the 18thc women's shoes had the outer sole grain rasped-off rough, and whitened with some sort of painted-on finish (especially 1700-50). Ditto with insole placement: Germans liked flesh-up against the foot. Much more of this in the 1600s than 1700s though.
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Re: THE GOOD OLD DAYS?

#123 Post by SharonKudrle »

Thank you for the wonderful information, for flesh out soles worn outdoors, do you happen to know if they were treated with a coating - tallow or anything to make them less prone to picking up dirt and repelling water? I'm guessing a pegged clump sole would be an easy repair and they'd have enjoyed the grain side against the foot. I noticed that indoors grain soles are very slippery on wood and on carpet, esp. stairs.
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Re: THE GOOD OLD DAYS?

#124 Post by das »

012uK3KhgwnN.jpg
.
042uK3Khgwrf.jpg
Here's a Vasa (woman's) shoe that was made with a spring heel, full rand all around, but clumsily repaired by building a stacked heel on top of the old outer sole. So far it's the only stacked heel above the outer sole in that whole collection. No accurate minimum shoe count yet, but preliminary shoe and leather object numbers are spread over 600 boxes.

Glad that was helpful. Knowing more about your curiosity on this, I'd just make the outer soles grain-out, but nicely rasp the grain off to present a "suede" like finish. The grain is the denser part of the hide and will wear better in contact with the ground
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Re: THE GOOD OLD DAYS?

#125 Post by das »

]
36679-primary-0-nativeres.jpg
jacques-callot-french-1592-1635-peasant-woman-litz-collection.jpg
jacques-callot-french-1592-1635-peasant-woman-with-basket-in-profile-edympr.jpg
Here're some nice engravings of peasant women by Jaques Callot (1592-1635) showing shoes with tiny openings, and no visible openings.
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