THE GOOD OLD DAYS?

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THE GOOD OLD DAYS?

#1 Post by admin » Mon May 06, 2002 8:01 pm

Roughly 80 messages posted in this very informative and unique topic prior to 25 February 2002 have been moved to the first Crispin Colloquy CD Archive.

Admin--06 May 2002

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Re: THE GOOD OLD DAYS?

#2 Post by norwegian » Sun Mar 16, 2003 6:50 am

To Al Saguto, or other interested
Here is a picture from around 1900. The picture is probably taken in Bodo, north of Norway. The soldier is one of my beloved´s ancestors. I can not remember seeing a pair of wrinckled Hessians on somebody, just displayed. Any comments would be appreciated.
2380.jpg


Until next time
JPM

tmattimore

Re: THE GOOD OLD DAYS?

#3 Post by tmattimore » Sun Mar 16, 2003 7:15 am

Jan
A handsome fellow indeed. Ah for the days when soldiers were well acquainted with their boot makers and tailors.
The boots appear to have a heavy cuff lining to hold the tops straight.
Tmattimore

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Re: THE GOOD OLD DAYS?

#4 Post by D.A. Saguto--HCC » Thu Mar 20, 2003 9:14 am

Jan,

Wow, very nice photo. Your ancestor is wearing "Hussar" uniform--and technically "Hussar boots"--inspired by the wild Hungarian cavalry. There were special boot-trees for making these, with the "wrinkles" deeply cut into the wood, and the otherwise normal smooth boot-leg was wetted and burnished down into the wood creases. Your guy looks like his wrinkles have lost some of their crispness in wear, or maybe this was okay in Norway. They sure knew how to dress soldiers back then didn't they? Very smart looking.

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Re: THE GOOD OLD DAYS?

#5 Post by norwegian » Thu Mar 20, 2003 1:49 pm

Al,
Thank you for your reply. It is a very nice drawing of a boot tree for shaping the wrinckles in Junes Latest book about scandinavian footwear. Do you have the book? Do you know the reason for the wrinckles. Was it fashion, practical (point of movement), or both?

Until next time
JPM

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Re: THE GOOD OLD DAYS?

#6 Post by D.A. Saguto--HCC » Fri Mar 21, 2003 7:51 am

Jan,

Yes, I have June's book with the drawing you mention. Northampton Museum has at least one pair of those "wrinkle" trees [inside some "wrinkle" boots], if you wanted to get a closer look.

Rees [1813, pg. 120] gives his opinion on the wrinkles' reasoning:

"Hessian boots were first brought into this country from Germany in the beginning of this war, about 1794 or 1795. Then they were crinkled in the front of the instab [sic]; as the present mode of blocking [crimping] them, was, I suppose, unknown to the Germans. That which I believe was the effect of necessity in Germany, became a subject of choice in this country, and improved upon.

The form of the boot at first was rather odious, as the close boot [tight English top-boot] was then in wear; but like many fashions, at first frightful, then pitied, and at last adopted; so with the Hessian boots, and they have now given the fashion to all other kinds of boots made with elastic [stretchy-leather] legs."

So, in a nutshell, Rees claims that the nasty wrinkles and pipes formed by crimping whole-fronts were manipulated into neater looking wrinkles, and left as part of the "look", until the English [of course] figured out a way to block whole-fronts without any wrinkles.

Anonymous, in 'Art de la Chaussure' [Paris, 1824, pgs. 148-151] discusses side-seamed "Hussar" [wrinkled whole fronts], and "Prussian" [not wrinkled whole-fronts]. He says the "Hussar" style was introduced from Hungary, made from cowhide curried the same as calfskin. The seaming up the sides helped retain the wrinkles on the instep. The "Prussian" [no wrinkles] had a stiff heavy lining in the legs to keep them rigidly shaped, which stopped short of the ankle area, and thus these wrinkled heavily around the ankles.

He shows in the plates boots very much like your ancestor is wearing, with stylized, molded-in wrinkles way up the ankle, in plate XI, wedged in between figs.4 and 5. I haven't found them discussed in the text yet [it's 380-some pages of French].

The Czechs still wear this type for traditional folk dancing, and they call them "Cyzmi" I believe. Some of the legs even look like accordion pleats. I had an old Czech bootmaker make me a couple of pairs of "Hungarian" styled "Cyzmi", and these had wrinkles only at the instep and just up on the shin, where "bad" crimping would have them. Why the exaggerated and stylizing wrinkles all the way up to the middle of the leg? You've got me. Just regional style filtered through a couple of centuries, and reinterpreted in other countries for military costume.

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Re: THE GOOD OLD DAYS?

#7 Post by gaid » Fri Mar 21, 2003 9:27 am

Jan P, Al,

In Finland the gypsys are wearing a kind of boot with wrinkles the way shown on the photo. Those are shorter and the top is cut similar to an western stove pipe.


Jan P
I think I saw a pair of boot trees with wrinkles in Carinas shop in Stockholm.

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Re: THE GOOD OLD DAYS?

#8 Post by das » Fri Mar 05, 2004 5:27 am

Here's an interesting article from the Sept.-Oct. 2000 'Harvard Magazine'. If you can find another link that includes all the photos, they're worth seeing--great stuff! All the 'Harvard Mag.' archive links I could find to this issue were dead except this one. Sorry.

http://people.deas.harvard.edu/~jones/mckay/article.html

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Re: THE GOOD OLD DAYS?

#9 Post by dai » Fri Nov 19, 2004 12:05 am

quote "Tom is perhaps best remembered by the photographs depicting him wearing "false tongues". These were large thick leather tongues fastened above the laces on his boots to keep the dew and rain at bay and are now exhibited in the Worthing Museum. Tom's actual boots seem to have mysteriously disappeared from the collection presented to the museum Barclay Wills and only the "tongues" remain"

For more on this topic, and to see the famous Pyecroft shepherd's crooks, many made from gun barrels and in common use by bishops! see the following link

http://www.findonvillage.com/0318_tom_rusbridges_nepcote.htm

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Re: THE GOOD OLD DAYS?

#10 Post by marc » Sun Jan 09, 2005 5:26 pm

One of the other areas that I do research is the 1921 Tulsa Race Riot, in which a large amount of North Tulsa was razed to the ground. While digging through old newspapers, I came across this ad for a business that disappeared early on the morning of 1 June 1921 - I figured folks would appreciate it.
3384.jpg


Marc

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Re: THE GOOD OLD DAYS?

#11 Post by das » Mon Jan 10, 2005 4:40 am

I see a Singer 29-4 patcher, but anybody recognize the sole-stitcher on the right?

What a cool photo--thanks Marc.

ted_sells

Re: THE GOOD OLD DAYS?

#12 Post by ted_sells » Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:59 am

I am new to the forum, so please be patient.
I am an interpretuer at a out door musem called
Old World Wisconsin I have been put in the Sissel Shoe shop and I'm intrigued by the old way of making shoes, and would like to learn the process of making shoes by hand. We have the necessary tools and the books we have are incomplete. Is there a book on the market that would show me the complete process, from the first step to the last.

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Re: THE GOOD OLD DAYS?

#13 Post by das » Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:34 am

Theodore,

Welcome aboard!

What year/decade does this shop represent? There're old books, some well-illustrated, but none will make anybody a shoemaker without tutoring in the details.

ted_sells

Re: THE GOOD OLD DAYS?

#14 Post by ted_sells » Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:31 am

To D. A. Saquto

Sorry it took me so long to get back, I find myself busier now than before I retired. The shop
represents the 1870's to the early 1930's
Anton Sissel took up an apprenticeship, for 3yrs
around 1874to 1877 opened up is own shop late 1877. We are still researching. To give you a little background about him, his shop was moved
from northern Wis. to the museum in Eagle Wi.
called Old World Wisconsin. I am an interpreter
there. We would like to give our visitors a living demonstration of how shoes were made during this time,right now all we do is talk
about this time and give tours of the building.
I came upon this forum by accident, and now
I am hoping I can find books or even a place where I can learn the process. The shop has all the necessary tools,for making shoes by hand.

Ted

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Re: THE GOOD OLD DAYS?

#15 Post by das » Sun Mar 04, 2007 6:39 am

Ted,

First stop ought to be The Library of Congress on-line catelogue. Shoemaking textbooks are all TS.990 series. There's a lot of them for the period you mention. As far as instruction and tutoring, ask around on the Forum.

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Re: THE GOOD OLD DAYS?

#16 Post by paul » Sun Mar 04, 2007 10:49 am

Good Luck Ted!

What an exciting adventure you're contemplateing!

We'll all be interested to follow you.

PK

ted_sells

Re: THE GOOD OLD DAYS?

#17 Post by ted_sells » Thu Mar 29, 2007 7:30 am

Sorry about not getting back right away
thank you for the information and advice

ted_sells

Re: THE GOOD OLD DAYS?

#18 Post by ted_sells » Thu Mar 29, 2007 7:33 am

Have found a shoe maker in my neck of the woods
still looking for the books, and the search goes on

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Re: THE GOOD OLD DAYS?

#19 Post by walrus » Thu Mar 29, 2007 9:20 am

Hi Theodore
I have a complete selection of Shoemaking books available at our website www.walrusshoe.com They are all written for the Bespoke (custom) footwear maker. We carry the George Koleff Books on pattern making, lastmaking, Ugg boot making & the New Tim Skyrme Bespoke Shoemaking Manual We also have other books on our website.Give us a call if you see any thing you need .
Larry Waller
Walrus Shoe & Leather Co. LLC
Delavan WI.
1.252.882.6006

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Re: THE GOOD OLD DAYS?

#20 Post by das » Thu May 24, 2007 5:39 am

All,

Does anyone have a date or provenance for this picture?
5025.jpg

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Re: THE GOOD OLD DAYS?

#21 Post by jesselee » Thu May 24, 2007 7:15 am

DA

The New Pattern boot and brogan of the US Army, 1872 were the first to use 'brass screw nails'. Note, that the box says 'U.S.Army Standard'. That actually looks like a screw that is turned with a flathead screwdiver.. I believe, and if I stand corrected, please provide informaytion for my/out general knowledge, that the 'brass screw nail', was actually a setup like the modern Auto-Soler, which forces iron screw wire into the sole and cuts it off to length. I have seen 1/6 inch brass screw nails, which would appear to be a twisted brass wire in Congress shoes and brogans post 1870.
My guess at taking in the colors on the card and the reference to 'pegging and nailing', that the card is 1870's, but done by a printing firm which is much older.

2 confederate penny's worth from,
Old School JesseLee

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Re: THE GOOD OLD DAYS?

#22 Post by amuckart » Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:58 pm

Hi all,

My wife just emailed me about a livejournal entry at: http://community.livejournal.com/vintagephoto/2000097.html of what appears to be a late 19th century shoe shop.

I have uploaded the photograph here also in case the livejournal one dissapears.
5771.jpg


The information on the publication this photograph came from, as posted in the livejournal comments is:
Bulletin de l'association Belge de photographie:
Bulletin de l'association Belge de photographie. 2 volumes (IX and XV) with 14 original prints, various techniques (albumen prints, heliogravures, woodburytype and collotypes), most circa 15 x 10 cm. Contemporary half vellum (rubbed, traces of use, vol. IX with stronger damage). Brussels, C. Annoot-Braeckman 1882 and 1888.
Traces of use, some pages with loss in lower edge, prints in very good condition.

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Re: THE GOOD OLD DAYS?

#23 Post by jenny_fleishman » Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:55 am

Picture taken in Boston this summer:
5810.jpg


Jenny

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Re: THE GOOD OLD DAYS?

#24 Post by dearbone » Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:14 am

6236.jpg

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Re: THE GOOD OLD DAYS?

#25 Post by dearbone » Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:26 am

6238.jpg

People of the gentle craft, I think,This is American boot/shoe making at its hight, this is where I get most my inspirations.
Regards.
Nasser

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