Historic Glues

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Historic Glues

#1 Post by admin » Mon May 06, 2002 7:55 pm

All messages posted in this topic prior to 25 February 2002 have been moved to the first Crispin Colloquy CD Archive.

Admin--06 May 2002

peter monahan

Re: Historic Glues

#2 Post by peter monahan » Mon Jan 02, 2006 5:23 pm

Hello All

I have just viewed ("visited" ?) a virtual exhibition by the Bata Shoe Museum at a site called Virtual Museum. It traces the hsitory of early shoes in Canada and I came across something I had not seen before: nineteenth century moccasins made for European settlers which had traditional native tops married to European soles.

There are two examples illustrated, one man's pair and one lady's pair.(http://www.virtualmuseum.ca/Exhibitions/Ground/english/exhibition/csrtv/sums2.ht ml)

Unfortunately, one can't see how exactly the soles are attached - hence my choice of topis headings here. I would have suspected they were stitched on but even at high magnification, with an apparently sharp image, one can't see any sign of seams or stiching. Sewed through the top edge only?

Has anyone seen/heard of such things and is there any documentation as to how they might have been made? Inspired guesses also welcome!

Happy New year to all

Peter Monahan

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Re: Historic Glues

#3 Post by dmcharg » Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:57 pm

G'day Peter,
May be able to help here. On the picture of the ladies Mocc's, the left one on it's side, there appear to be some stitches visable through the sole at the heel (small white lines ). Unless it's the museum's seriel number. I reguarly make turn shoes for the family and as the kids wear through the sole, you get the stitches appearing as radiating white lines. You could use the same method with these mocc/shoes. Leave the mocc. complete, turn it inside out placing the sole on the 'inside', push the awl down through the mocc. sole into the outsole, back up through the mocc. sole. Follow through with your thread. Repeat for next stitch.
Very quick explanation, bit rough.
Anyway, that's my two cents worth, and I'm out of time.
Hope it's a help.
Cheers
Duncan

peter monahan

Re: Historic Glues

#4 Post by peter monahan » Sat Jan 07, 2006 4:53 am

Duncan

Yes, I had decided that if they were stitched it was done either as a turnshoe or that the sole was fixed on before the mocc. was sewed up, but I couldn't/didn't see the marks you mention. I'll look again and thanks for the thoughts. I take it you and the family do living history?

Someone else has suggested to me that isinglass glue might have done the trick and it would certainly be less work but that goes against the prevailing wisdom that glues weren't commonly used as a permanent way of affixing soles in the 19th C, which I why I asked the question originally.

Again, thanks for your input. Happy New Year

Peter

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Re: Historic Glues

#5 Post by sorcha » Sat Jan 20, 2007 9:55 am

Hi Peter,

Here are some construction details and pics of traditional Iroquoian mocs.

http://www.nativetech.org/clothing/moccasin/moctext.html

They are made with one peice of leather that wraps around the foot and the center seam is often covered with beading (as you see.)

I make center seam shoes similar in design to this style, but based on Anglo-Scandivian center seam designs called in archeological parlance 'bag-shoes.' Interestingly center seam bag-shoes were in use from the Iron Age up to about the 5th C throughout Europe, when turn shoes with a seperate soles came into fashion. Generally speaking Romans sandwiched the single peice unit between a top sole and an outsole (with the single peice unit acting as a midsole) and the soles were through stitched or hob nailed onto the unit then the shoe is stitched together. This construction method was used for the military boot (caligae) and other Roman shoes.

http://www.geocities.com/legio_tricesima_cohors_tres/campusMartis/MakingCaligae/ MakingAuthenticCaligae.html

So...even though I can't see a center seam in the pics, it seems likely to me that the shoe is a center seam single unit and the sole is sewn in before the shoe is stitched together. Plus you can see a line around the edge of the sole. This looks to me like it could be a stitching groove cut at an angle to cover the through stitches. Just my guess.

Sorcha

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