Shoemaking sites

Was your Grandfather (or Grandmother) a shoemaker? Perhaps an Uncle? Or maybe just someone you knew and remember from childhood. Tell us the story.
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lancepryor
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Re: Shoemaking sites

#26 Post by lancepryor » Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:11 pm

DW:

Yes, Lobb does do RTW. See my message of 9/6 above. The Lobb RTW is part of the Lobb Paris operation, owned by Hermes. The Lobb London operation (a.k.a. Lobb St. James) is still owned by the Lobb family -- they do not do any RTW. I assume they sold the rights for the Lobb name for RTW to Hermes when they sold Lobb Paris. Confusingly, the Lobb RTW (i.e. Lobb Paris) is made in England -- but is not owned by the Lobb London firm!

In any event, they do use gemming. The shoes are made at a factory which was previously owned by Green.

You are right about Green's marketing claim. However, remember that they are competing in the RTW arena, and in general people who are looking at Greens aren't looking at bespoke; furthermore, people who are interested in bespoke would likely understand that bespoke shoes are different from and superior to Green's RTW.

If you want to learn more about crust leather, I would suggest you either contact Crack & Sons in Northampton, or perhaps e-mail Tony at Gaziano and Girling. I would assume the Cracks would know about it and be able to describe it; Tony uses it for some of his bespoke and likely is using it for his MTO/RTW, so I think he would be able to tell you more. If you manage to find out more, please do let us know!

Lance

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Re: Shoemaking sites

#27 Post by dw » Fri Sep 14, 2007 4:57 am

Lance,

Do you have any idea how to contact Crack?

I feel bad...I had a three ring notebook of their leathers at one time and didn't see anything that I could use in it. Now I can't find that notebook or an address or any evidence it ever existed. Image

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Re: Shoemaking sites

#28 Post by lancepryor » Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:26 am

DW:

See this listing on the 'yellow page':

http://www.aacrack.com/sb/Displaycompany.do?p=contact&id=SB0003209474000180

Their phone number would appear to be 011-44-1604 874422 or perhaps 011-44-604 874422 (I'm never quite sure what to drop for an international call!). If you can't get them through this number, let me know and I'll look through my records.

Their e-mail appears to be: aacrack@btconnect.com

Lance

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Re: Shoemaking sites

#29 Post by dw » Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:40 am

Lance,

Thanks a lot! That's what I was looking for. Did a google search but didn't turn up anything, never thought of yellowpages.

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Re: Shoemaking sites

#30 Post by romango » Fri Sep 14, 2007 8:18 am

Lance - thanks for the fascinating info. I have been following raptly.

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Re: Shoemaking sites

#31 Post by lancepryor » Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:17 am

DW:

I was informed by a casual reader that crust leather is available here: http://weinheimer-leder.com/products/productrange/productdescriptionwaproluxkalb crust/index.html

It appears this firm has attempted to assume the mantle of Freudenberg. Whether that is justified is of course a different matter.

Lance

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Re: Shoemaking sites

#32 Post by dw » Sat Sep 15, 2007 5:30 pm

Lance,

Thanks. I dropped them an email. I'll let everyone know if anything comes of it. Looks like they have a very interesting line even if you don't want to fool with crust.

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Re: Shoemaking sites

#33 Post by dw » Sat Sep 15, 2007 5:35 pm

All,

I also have a link to Gaziano & Girling. One of my favorites.

They will be in the US in the early part of October. If you are in one the cities/regions that they are visiting during their tour, it would be well worth it, I think, to go and see them.

http://www.gazianogirling.com/

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Re: Shoemaking sites

#34 Post by kaspar » Sun Sep 16, 2007 12:48 pm

Lance,
thanks for Your explanations.
When seeing the links posted here I personally like the shoes made by Scheer. They come out from the other shoes, that are quite much taking the same lines- similar design and finishing... London or Paris made.

As it seems everyone has a some sort of team behind them also (clickers, shoemakers). But are there such individuals like Yantorny was? Doing all the work from design to finishing the shoe themselves, without any assistance?

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Re: Shoemaking sites

#35 Post by lancepryor » Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:47 pm

Kaspar:

I don't really know for certain which if any of the shoemakers do it all themselves. I think perhaps Koji Suzuki, JP Myrhe, and a couple of the French guys, but that is just a guess. In London, I believe the trade has traditionally been divided up into lastmakers, patternmakers, clickers, closers, and makers. At many places, I would guess the first 3 may have been combined, and almost certainly the patternmaking and clicking . As you know, the lastmaking piece of the puzzle is perhaps the most difficult and seems likely to remain a separate craft from the closing and making; the London firms keep the lastmaking in-house but generally use outworkers for the closing and making. The 'maker' I spent time with in London has now become, I understand, a pretty capable closer, so I think he could take a last and go on from there to make a shoe from scratch. However, for someone to actually become world-class in all the skills seems unlikely. I would guess that the guys who say they do it all are modifying stock lasts, rather than starting from scratch with a last blank. This is also the approach taken by the custom bootmakers in the US, I think. Certainly there is nothing at all wrong with such an approach, and somebody really experienced like DW can do great things with modifying stock lasts; however, whether that fits into the definition of what you are looking for I don't know.

Some of the Scheer shoes and boots are quite lovely. Certainly more toward the western European style than some of the other central and eastern European firms. Scheer are known by some as the "John Lobb of Vienna."

Lance

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Re: Shoemaking sites

#36 Post by cordphilip » Wed Nov 21, 2007 11:08 am

Hi everyone

I'm not sure if anyone was aware, but Frank Jones' website www.shoemaking.org is not around now.... the URL is taken by a shoemaker from the US. One of the advantages of the site was it listed shoemakers and resources from all over the world, albeit not really that much for bespoke and orthopaedic shoemakers in the UK. Frank's site wasn't that 'user friendly' as it was geared to the industry rather than the customer, and certainly not the great shop front we have at www.shoemakers.org

I've been talking to a few like-minded people about the need for a really good worldwide website... to list shoemakers and their skills, suppliers, repairers, etc etc. Not in opposition to the shoemakers.org site but to get a worthwhile network going, along with a good resource. My friend Chris www.chrishornby.co.uk thinks this could be easily achieved, not as a way of making money from a website... but to make something that will help us all and be cost effective. We would certainly offer a discount to all those who are registered with shoemakers.org and to those who are registered on one of the US equivalent's I'm in touch with.


All I'm after now is some thoughts as to whether this is a good idea... and would you feel it's worth investing a little time (and even less money) .
THE CORDWAINER
Philip J Taylor
Bespoke and Orthopaedic Shoemaker

99 Railway Road
Leigh, lancashire, WN7 4AD

Tel: 01942 739700
Email: cordphilip@aol.com
www.thecordwainer.co.uk

(Message edited by relferink on November 21, 2007)

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Re: Shoemaking sites

#37 Post by cordphilip » Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:44 am

Hi again

Things have moved along briskly since my last posting. Around 20 shoemakers (and orthopaedic shoe companies) have said they are interested in the idea of a worldwide site for shoemakers. I have written (emailed) around 60 in the UK, half a dozen in Germany, Italy & Austria... but have few contacts for the USA.

Does anyone out there have a comprhensive list of folks I could tell about the proposal ?

I'd really like your help out there.

Cheers Philip

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Re: Shoemaking sites

#38 Post by romango » Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:00 am

Hi Philip. I don't have any listings for you but I would love to be on such a list.

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Re: Shoemaking sites

#39 Post by cordphilip » Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:14 am

Cheers Rick

If you email me with your details I'll keep you up to date with progress.

THE CORDWAINER
Philip J Taylor
Bespoke and Orthopaedic Shoemaker

99 Railway Road
Leigh, lancashire, WN7 4AD

Tel: 01942 739700
Email: cordphilip@aol.com
www.thecordwainer.co.uk

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Re: Shoemaking sites

#40 Post by cordphilip » Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:45 am

Hello shoemaking colleagues.

A couple of weeks ago I told you about a new web site I was planning and I was delighted that so many shoemakers indicated their interest to be involved, so much so I have been encouraged to progress to this stage. The site is intended to give shoe makers throughout the world a chance to come together on one site, but more importantly to help document the wide range of skills and traditions of the industry.

I have now uploaded a model of the site although it is still UNDER CONSTRUCTION. I hope you will find the easy to navigate and added a MEMBERSHIP PAGE to give you an idea of the proposed costs.

I have many idea I would like to add to the new site, in particular a shoemaking forum, you're ideas would be welcome. If you have any other questions or views, please feel free to ask.

Click here: The World of Shoemaking

marcell

Re: Shoemaking sites

#41 Post by marcell » Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:42 am

Sorry to ask - maybe just I don't understand something... and do not take it bad. I am a foreigner, with very bad English.. but
Philip - isn't it the same idea what HCC makes? Or what is the main difference?

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Re: Shoemaking sites

#42 Post by cordphilip » Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:56 am

Hello Marcell.

Thank you for commenting on the new website. I think it is very different to the HCC site... the HCC site does not have a "front page" that links directly to the differing genres of shoemaker, or all the other information that will be contained. The only similarity might be the eventual addition of a forum.

Have a look and see what you think. www.worldofshoemaking.org

Philip

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Re: Shoemaking sites

#43 Post by dw » Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:21 pm

Philip,

How, then does the intent (or the reality) differ from a site such as Roger Maas' ShoeInfo net? Which has been in existence for almost as long as the Crispin Colloquy.

The Crispin Colloquy was founded, and exists, to provide a platform for learning. Period. It is non profit and, for the most part non-commercial. Non-commercial to the extent that it has become almost an unspoken writ of etiquette here that self-promotion is considered a little graceless and/or gauche. Nor would I want it any other way...I would not welcome even a suspicion of hucksterism taking root here. I believe and hope (and as long as I have anything to say about it, intend) that the Crispin Colloquy will always have that sense of objectivity and...for those who find it amenable...inclusiveness.

But at the same time, it seems to me that a larger, more focused, and especially more cohesive community is in the interest of all of us...especially if we hope to preserve the Trade. I would only hope that we all don't get so full of ourselves that we lose sight of the fact that this is both a small community, relatively speaking...I'm referring to all shoe and bootmakers worldwide...and that because of that the Trade itself would probably benefit more from pulling together than fragmenting even further.


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Re: Shoemaking sites

#44 Post by cordphilip » Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:53 am

Heloo again.

Firstly, I understand that the new site wil not suit everyone for a number of reasons, but let me try and ally your fears and make some suggestions.

Content: The idea is for easy access to shoemakers through a genre based menuu, so that we might be able to help our customers make informed choices when we cannot help. It must also be better for our customers to find the right shoemaker easily, how many times a week do I have to turn work away because simple listings do not give all the information.

Shoeinfonet: I just checked, there are three orthopaedic shoemakers listed world-wide, so shoeinfonet is performing a different and very important role.

Other sites: Newenglandshoemakers (USA) and shoemakers.org (UK) perform the task admirably but also in a limited way, the comments I have received so far tell me that the new site could be capable of bringing together so many of the things we are all looking for.

Cost and funding: This is not a profit making scheme. A rough guess would be around £800-1000 sterling per year to run the site... I would need over 100 companies to register to make this work, but this is what I do, I believe in working for the good of my trade and I'm respected for that in the UK.

Like you I believe in all the HCC stands for, like you I am proud to be a member. But, the industry is in need of good quality feed or else it will continue to decline. This site will respond to the needs of its users, it already has even in design, three sections have been added at their request. Surely we need more "joined up writing" so we can all benefit.

If you have any suggestions which would improve the site or peoples conception of the idea, please tell me.

Cheers Philip

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Re: Shoemaking sites

#45 Post by das » Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:22 am

Phillip,

Thanks for further explaining the differences--I was curious as well. It looks like a grand potential commercial advertising opportunity for shoe/bootmakers to promote their goods/services on-line, but as such is not something we can "officially" go into in detail or promote on the HCC Forum--the laws for "registered charities" ( I think the term is in the UK), such as us, are rather strict in the USA. Once your site has a permanent address, if different from the one you posted, we can announce its existence on the Colloquy. And best of luck...Lord knows the trade at-large needs a boost Image

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Re: Shoemaking sites

#46 Post by cordphilip » Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:45 am

Thanks for that Al. I think it's important to reiterate that this is not a commercial venture for either myself or those we list, but the site must have the right information to get people to participate. There will be no advertising on the site, either in pop-ups or within the "business cards", but there has to be enough information to be of value.

The permanent address willbe that already listed. Hopefully in January we can remove the "under construction" tag and have the first participants online, 15 have so far said yes to the site (around 15% of all those I contacted so far), hopefully that number will grow once we're up and running.

Whilst here. I have been promising myself for a number of years I would get over to your October bashes, my friend Frank Jones raves about them !! Have you announced dates and a venue yet ? Our Conference moves to Ireland in February, George Tutty Handmade Shoes being the hosts... wonderful fella !!

Speak again Al.

Philip

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Re: Shoemaking sites

#47 Post by das » Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:08 am

Phillip,

I would love to see you at an HCC AGM, and we have lamented not being able to stir enough HCCers to charter a flight to the UK for one of your shoemakers' bashes. I may just sneak over on my own one of these days.

Ireland...I've always wanted to see Ireland....

The HCC AGM is announced "officially" in June/July every year, after we receive all the anxious(?!) bids to host this zany mob. Stay tuned to the Forum for details in the summer of '08, and come if you can.

An on-line, international directory advertising shoemakers would be a great boon to the trade; however, since a subscription fee is charged to be listed (right?), which will include/exclude certain makers, and this fee is more than the actual costs of simply posting a person's contact info. (right?), it would be judged as a "commercial" or "advertising" venture over here I'm afraid, and would get the guild into hot water if we did more than simply announce its existence, which we have here.

Keep your stitches in a row, and keep us posted on the website.

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Re: Shoemaking sites

#48 Post by cordphilip » Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:32 am

Hi Al

If the idea is for the listings to pay fro themselves then I can no reason to think the site should not fit into the criteria for the USA too. All we've done is basically looked at the cost of putting the site together, the maintenence and costs (google ads, space, hosting etc etc) and divided it by around 200 users.

The set up fee of around $70 equates to the set up of the links and business cards for each user, the annual fee being the cost against the site costs.

I can clearly see the need for transparency, therefore it would be appropriate to give regular cost breakdowns on the site. I would look at any profit subsidising an event or such like. This is not a money making cart for me !!

I'm not sure why you think it might include or exclude certain makers, unless it's just because they could not afford the fees. Again I have to look at all those issues and respond to them... I've already agreed that makers who just "train others" should pay half the fee, links to organisations and conferences free, it's easy to make up rules at this stage.

However your thoughts are valued Al... as with previous posts on here. It certainly shows the power of discussion and the value of this site.

Cheers Phil

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Re: Shoemaking sites

#49 Post by das » Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:46 am

Phillip,

Perhaps I'm not doing the maths...it is early here, and I'm one cup of tea away from being fully awake.

Any further discussions about the mechanics or structure of your directory site will, however, have to proceed off-line. And I certainly didn't mean to imply that you were thinking of this as a cash cart--who do we know actually makes any money in this trade anymore anyway?

Don't answer that Image

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Re: Shoemaking sites

#50 Post by admin » Thu Dec 13, 2007 8:08 am

I don't want to take this discussion into territory that might be further misconstrued....I believe that everything that has been said has been useful but, at some point (right after this post, in other words Image) we need to let this go.

The HCC is a non-profit, 501 C-3 tax exempt educational organization. This is a very specific legal designation that requires a strict conformation of behaviour on our part in order to keep that designation.

We operate and maintain the two websites associated with the Guild on donations and volunteer-ism alone (my exorbitant salary notwithstanding Image) (and that's one of those inside jokes--we all get paid like circus elephants...in peanuts Image )

But the point is that any appearance of commercialism, profit-taking, or personal advantage threatens the legal status of the Guild. In fact any appearance...any hint of collusion--whether it be talking about how to price shoes or boots; establishing a last lending library; or promoting other, profit making enterprises to the exclusion of all others imperils the Guilds very existence.

I post this not only to address this issue specifically but also to remind, and underscore, and burn into the collective consciousness of the membership, this basic tenet of Forum policy.

Caution is the better part of wisdom...

Yr. Hmb. Svt.

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