Finishing techniques

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dw
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Re: Finishing techniques

#176 Post by dw »

grenik » Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:01 pm wrote:I have learned so much from this site and have made a couple pairs of shoes (one that I am even able to wear for work!) Still in the beginning stages. I am not sure if this forum is the correct spot, but how is the burnished toe in these pictures achieved? Is it done after the shoe is complete with polish or is it put into the leather before closing the upper, after it is on the last, etc?

Because the color seems to go all the way to the upper/sole interface, it seems like these are done beofre the outsole is attached?

Thank you
Every maker has his own technique. Some creams can work for antiquing some leathers. Sometimes it requires special emulsions created specifically for antiquing. Some even use an airbrush.

Personally I use shoe creams whenever possible--I like Saphir for this kind of work--and I try to do antiquing (with small brushes and a very handy soft cloth) as part of the final finishing.
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Re: Finishing techniques

#177 Post by dmcharg »

G'day All,
I've been going through this thread, and I know it was 3 years ago (and it may have been answered, I just haven't got that far yet :) ), but DWF was talking about 'crow wheels' and 'bunk' wheels, and that Arford sold them but he didn't know what they were for. I've got a bunk wheel handle ('Abraham' Northhampton) and was chatting to my wife, Sandra, about this, this morning, and so she did a quick search and found this. Seems that, for us hand sewers it's a load of Bunk! :D

Cheers
Duncan

http://www.search.staffspasttrack.org.u ... hemeID=579
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Re: Finishing techniques

#178 Post by dw »

dmcharg » Mon Jun 20, 2016 6:16 pm wrote:G'day All,
I've been going through this thread, and I know it was 3 years ago (and it may have been answered, I just haven't got that far yet :) ), but DWF was talking about 'crow wheels' and 'bunk' wheels, and that Arford sold them but he didn't know what they were for. I've got a bunk wheel handle ('Abraham' Northhampton) and was chatting to my wife, Sandra, about this, this morning, and so she did a quick search and found this. Seems that, for us hand sewers it's a load of Bunk! :D

Cheers
Duncan

http://www.search.staffspasttrack.org.u ... hemeID=579
Maybe DAS could speak more to this but, if I understand correctly, something about the description doesn't ring true. From calling it a heel seat wheel to the suggesti0n that the marks made will be parallel to the edge of the outsole, to the idea that such marks will somehow make ti look more like it was hand stitched.

It may be as simple as the possibility (probability) that the the person who wrote the description was/is not a shoemaker, but it seems like the description is somehow a conflation of two or three different tools into the one.
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Re: Finishing techniques

#179 Post by nickb1 »

Nathan wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:26 am
dw wrote:Nathan,

For colour work.

If is a solid colour like black or brown I use Yankee wax at the stage before using the hammer handle. I push it in over the glassed bottom and then use an elliptical edge iron heated up to melt the pushed in wax into the bottom. This has a dual action of pushing the leather fibres down and forcing the hard wax down past the epidermis?! of the leather.
I then hand polish this in more with a cloth.
I would then finger polish with a neutral glacé and/or tints with a mahogany or cognac if I had the time or cognac!
Hi everyone,
I'm currently finishing a pair of ankle boots and am working on finishing the soles. I noticed from this post that Nathan uses wax on the soles. I was taught just to use (after applying dye), polish, burnish the polish, then another layer of polish. But no wax. This seems to work well with dyed soles.

However, I'm currently using a brown "edge stain" also on the soles, which works differently to dye / ink, in that the finish is semi-translucent. I think it looks nice and you get a lot of control over the shade. However, after applying this, then using clear polish, to which I also applied heat and then more polish as above, I find that although it looks good it clouds and smudges when wet. Whereas previously (with the dyed finish) the water would tend to bead off unless you got it really wet.

What fixes would people suggest for this please? Apply gum tragacanth on top? or wax the soles with clear stickwax / heelball using a heel iron? I'm wondering if this would this be streaky, and why people don't normally wax the soles?
Grateful for any suggestions.
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Re: Finishing techniques

#180 Post by nickb1 »

Not sure if this is the correct place for this query, but how on earth can you get a sock liner fitted nicely into a finished boot? I've seen a picture of a tool for this which was basically a bent stick with a nail in the front, but don't really want to be probing blind with a nail at the front of the boot!
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Re: Finishing techniques

#181 Post by dw »

nickb1 wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 4:45 am Not sure if this is the correct place for this query, but how on earth can you get a sock liner fitted nicely into a finished boot? I've seen a picture of a tool for this which was basically a bent stick with a nail in the front, but don't really want to be probing blind with a nail at the front of the boot!

First, if you're talking about a full heel to toe sockliner, it is probably wise to cut it out such that it matches the insole before you last the boots. A bottom paper can help here. Then when the time comes to place the sockliner, apply cement (if you're using cement) only in a narrow (half inch?) strip down the center of the flesh side.

Something along the lines of the stick you describe, can be used to place the liner but I have always just sort of folded the liner lengthwise and then tucked the back end of the liner underneath and slid it in.

Of course, this must be done while the cement is still wet but the combination of a narrow swath of cement and folding the sides and the heel in and under prevent any cement from accidentally getting on the lining of the boot itself.

Once in place you won't have much time to adjust position but some--one of the advantages of cutting the sockliner to size and shape first. And limiting the cement to a narrow strip gives you some leeway to adjust the position (as well as remove the sockliner later on). Also the narrow strip of cement is only marginally occlusive, as opposed to full cement, while still firmly holding the sl in place once the cement has set.

Hope this helps.
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Re: Finishing techniques

#182 Post by nickb1 »

Thanks dw. But why not paste for the sock liner?
I haven't used full liners till now, but find that the boots I just finished ride up a bit at the heel. Not much but enough to warrant a fix. Strangely this wasn't evident to me at the fitting stage. This will be a pad under the 'metatarsophalangial' joints on the lateral side with a sock over the top. I've tested the pads and they work well enough, taking up volume and pressing the foot back a little but need the sock over them for which I have some very thin liner.
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Re: Finishing techniques

#183 Post by dw »

I dunno...I suspect the moisture from the foot would make the sockliner unstable.

Ideally...and even Traditionally there would be no sockliner...nor heelpad, either. So the problem only arose after factory techniques created a demand for heel pads and so forth due to nails (clinched) being exposed on the grain side of the insole. And by that time, AP was the 'go-to' adhesive.

I made boots for a long time without heelpads or sockliners --no harm, no foul. The only reason I started adding heel pads was because customers, who were so used to factory technique and beguiled by the surrounding hype and PR, sort of expected them. I got tired of explaining why the way I made boots made them unnecessary.
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Re: Finishing techniques

#184 Post by nickb1 »

OK maybe rubber solution then. Would give more opportunity to correct the position I think. I agree it's all better without. next time I'll be taking some material off the lasts to avoid this problem, I know they should have less girth around the joints. The last is already pretty thin at the lateral edge though, so I'm wondering if the only thing to do will be to take material off the bottom.
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Re: Finishing techniques

#185 Post by dw »

nickb1 wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:07 am I'm wondering if the only thing to do will be to take material off the bottom.
Tricky business that. It can throw off all kinds of ratios and configurations. If you're not comfortable taking substance off the lateral side, I shouldn't think you'd be ready to take stuff off the plantar surface.

If you need to remove substance without disturbing the insole size and shape, the best advice I can give is to take it off the dorsal surface. If you can't do that then you might have to reassess the insole width in light of how loose the bone structure of your foot is.

All that said, I feel compelled to remark that I'm not there nor looking at the last or foot--it's hard to analyze fitting problems remotely.
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Re: Finishing techniques

#186 Post by nickb1 »

Well, it's a conundrum. I showed it to James Ducker a while back and he recommended to leave it as it is and use the pads :-( But he likes to use socking (because of nailed heels?) so wouldn't see that as a problem. Or he said to take material off the bottom, warning that this could be problematic. I have quite a prominent big toe joint which I think means I shouldn't take material off there. Then the last is already slightly scooped out across the joints, if I take more material off there it will be hard to last down to the wood.
If we're ever out of this COVID lockdown mess, it would be nice to do a short course in lastmaking, not that I will ever be doing this but for the insight into modification ...
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Re: Finishing techniques

#187 Post by PhilipB1 »

I've got some kangaroo veg tan skins which I'm planning to use, both for lining and uppers. The skins are dyed, but otherwise are pretty stiff without any noticeable treatment, pretty much like "crust". Reading up, I understand they will soften with some conditioner. So I was wondering, what treatment should I give these skins, conditioner and otherwise, for the lining; and also for the uppers so that they are reasonable protected from the elements?

I also wondered when I should apply the treatment? Before any work commences, or wait until finished? For the lining, it seems like it might be best to put conditioner on before lasting?
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Re: Finishing techniques

#188 Post by das »

My only experience with veg-tanned 'roo uppers, they go as supple as glove just in wear, no "conditioners" added. Be careful, they may become too limp.
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Re: Finishing techniques

#189 Post by PhilipB1 »

Thanks. Having browsed the internet I understand and heed your warning about the kangaroo becoming too limp. Can I broaden the question a little to ask what would be the best treatment for uppers made from a crust leather (whether calf or kangaroo)? Is shoe polish sufficient, or are there additional treatments that would be beneficial to help protect from the elements (particularly the wet)?
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Re: Finishing techniques

#190 Post by Amasiah »

Hi I am looking into making my first real leather outsole (instead of vibram) and the information I find about how to dye and iron etc are useful but seems somewhat incomplete so I don't really want to get into it unless I have confidence that I actually really know what I'm doing and if I have all the materials... can someone directs me in this process?
i am still learning how to sew the welt by hand without issues but starting to figure it out, it seems like even in this process there are different methods, but I manages to make something that looks somewhat decent with stormwelt, even tough the bottom line is a vit wavy, any advice for thiss too?
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Re: Finishing techniques

#191 Post by carsten »

Did you see this heel finishing from show_goto (https://www.instagram.com/show_goto/?hl=en)?



Unbelievable. Not even Yohei Fukuda makes such a finish. Can this be real even on rubber? If it´s shellac based I would think it must flake off during wear?

Any ideas how this is done? Thanks, Carsten
Last edited by carsten on Sun Aug 21, 2022 10:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Finishing techniques

#192 Post by dw »

Any finish, wax or lacquer, will flake off on almost the first wearing.

It is impressive, esp. if it is not some sort of lacquer and more so if it's wax on the rubber.
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