Closing techniques

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chuck_deats

Re: Closing techniques

#351 Post by chuck_deats » Sat Feb 02, 2013 6:54 am

Cody,
I am sure you know the stitching is done with the boot inside out. Have found a drill press (turned off) with an awl chucked and an edge stop on the table useful for side seaming.
Chuck

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Re: Closing techniques

#352 Post by johnl » Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:25 am

Chuck,
I have done similar things with a Tippman boss hand powered sticher. Large needle or awl in place, but not threaded. I provides the holes already spaced for hand stitching.

For the budget minded, I would think you could get a cheap ($29.95 or so) arbor press from Harbor Freight and use it.

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Re: Closing techniques

#353 Post by salsa » Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:54 am

For considerably less than any make-shift approach, you can buy a #5 stitch marker and an awl haft and awl.

More importantly, you'll have the foundations for doing the job right.

chuck_deats

Re: Closing techniques

#354 Post by chuck_deats » Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:25 am

Richard,
You are correct, but have trouble keeping the awl perfectly straight through the thickness of a side seam. Near side good, off side ratty. Probably my lack of skill.
Chuck

(Message edited by chuck_deats on February 03, 2013)

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Re: Closing techniques

#355 Post by salsa » Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:59 am

Chuck,

Understood. The practical and ideal solution would probably be a stitching pony. If you don't like that one, get three or four heavy metal spring clamps and take off the rubber tips. Arrange them along your sideseam so that the jaws are right next to the seam line. The clamps will keep your pieces together (bonus!!) and if you aim your awl point so that it *might* hit the edge of the jaw you'll either hit the jaw or you won't. If you don't your stitches ought to be pretty close to where you want them.
The good thing about this is one it's a lot faster than trying to make holes with a drill press. and two you eventually learn to control the awl so that you can drive it straight without help. It's a learning process and when you quit learning you might as well pull the other leg in and drag the sod on over.

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Re: Closing techniques

#356 Post by johnl » Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:16 am

Two things to consider in my humble opinion. One is the skill factor mentioned above. Lord knows I need more of it. The other thing is the speed factor. Somewhere along the line, we generaly find things that allow us to go faster, and at the same time not compromise the quality. The Tippman allowed me to punch a whole bunch of holes in a very little time, all correctly spaced. Its very possible that use of the drill press or something else might do this also. After all, most use a sewing machine for one thing or another, yet we could hand stich the whole thing.
John L

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Re: Closing techniques

#357 Post by salsa » Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:06 pm

The question that occurs to me however is why you are using a Tippman to punch holes when you could be using it to actually sew the sideseam? Some people like to make a big deal over efficiency. surely it can't be efficient to 'sew' the sideseam twice? Once by machine and then again by hand.If I had a Tippman I'd use it for what it was intended to be used for. Without one, a drill press just seems like a missed opportunity to become better at an essential skill. No one gets more skilled by wishing to be more skilled. And no one gets faster if that's what they are aiming for by using a wrench to drive a nail.

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Re: Closing techniques

#358 Post by dw » Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:27 pm

I hesitate...but for what it's worth, I suspect a recent post of mine bears on this subject...

Speed kills. It kills quality. Esp. if you end up using inappropriate techniques and tools because you don't know how to use the appropriate ones.

When you consider that Shoemaking is, as a Trade, 10,000 years old...has had 10,000 years to evolve the best techniques and the most apropos tools...it seems a bit self destructive (of the Trade, if nothing else) to unilaterally decide that such techniques/tools are obsolete, too hard to master, or too inefficient.

People are free to pursue whatever skills and results they wish...they'll get only token resistance from me...but it seems to beg the question:

"When does shoemaking become cobbling?" Or even something else?

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Re: Closing techniques

#359 Post by johnl » Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:03 pm

Richard,
Think of the tippman as an automated awl. The few times that I have used it in that fashion is to automate the punching of holes. The reason I did not sew with it was that it can not handle the size thread I wanted to use, and the seam can be pulled tighter by hand then with the tipman.
DW, I agree with you, speed can kill quality, but there are some areas that I do not think it would impact.
Johnl

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Re: Closing techniques

#360 Post by kemosabi » Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:31 am

Side seams on the boots in the picture above were sewn with a Junker&Ruh SD-28.

Cheers,
-Nat

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Re: Closing techniques

#361 Post by farmerfalconer » Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:15 am

Thanks everyone. I would probably stitch by hand with an awl. I have a drill press but I can run a pretty good straight stitch that length with and awl by hand in about 30-40 minutes. I usually like to punch holes as I sew. THats one thing Im actually proficient atImage

Nat, I hope you dont mind me using your boots as an example. I aspire to be able to do as well someday.

Cody

(Message edited by farmerfalconer on February 04, 2013)

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Re: Closing techniques

#362 Post by kemosabi » Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:14 pm

Of course I don't mind. I'm honored! Image

I hand stitched many side seams before getting the Junker stitcher. Nothing wrong with that at all.

BTW: I'm not referring to my machine as a piece of junk. "Junker" is the German manufacturer of the machine, pronounced "Yunker". Some people get confused about this.

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Re: Closing techniques

#363 Post by romango » Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:18 pm

I posted this once before and it was mentioned above. This method of punching holes is a little time consuming but it is accurate and easy to do.
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Re: Closing techniques

#364 Post by elfn » Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:37 am

Rick, bless you for having shared that in the past. I've used your technique and it works AWESOME, reducing the time it takes to hand sew leather. The holes are all identically aligned, something that's very difficult to accomplish by hand. I didn't use a chisel punch. I chucked a crewel needle though I could as easily have used a straight awl. I was so impressed I posted it.

super awl

Here's the picture.
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Re: Closing techniques

#365 Post by admin » Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:24 am

The discussion regarding "experimental" techniques
has been moved to The Speakeasy > "...a great way forward?" thread.

Please keep future posts "on topic".

Emmett

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Re: Closing techniques

#366 Post by elfn » Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:48 am

Thanks Emmett. Because I read from oldest to newest I didn't know where the thread had moved. My apologies.

N

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Re: Closing techniques

#367 Post by marika_vchasse » Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:31 am

Hello all - I am working on a few uppers for shoes and I wanted to see if anybody had any recommendations on how to treat the edges of the quarters to a Derby (so they are sitting very prominently on the vamp)with edge treatment to make sure they don't look fuzzy ? I have not had this in the past but the leather I am working on tends to fuzz a bit. I have used matches before to burn off some of the fuzz but I know there must be more durable techniques that make the edges look sharp - all pointers appreciated ;-)
Marika

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Re: Closing techniques

#368 Post by dw » Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:03 am

Marika,

Not confirmed in this particular application--I have always just flamed the edges. But I would suggest...just off the top of my head...that Gum Tragacanth rubbed with a piece of canvas or perhaps beeswax boned into the edge would work. I suspect the latter would be more durable esp. if you were spritzing prior to lasting.

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Re: Closing techniques

#369 Post by frank_jones » Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:11 am

Anne Marika Verploegh Chasse

One simple way to get rid of the fuzzy edge is to make a raw edge skive. This is a very slightly skive on the edge at 45 degrees. The illustration is a cross section with the grain at the top. One way of doing this is with a french edger but if you are really skilled it can be done with a knife. This is another benefit. It also makes the edge look slightly thinner and therefore less prominent.
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Re: Closing techniques

#370 Post by dw » Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:10 am

I do that myself in almost every situation even if the leather is not prone to fuzziness.

I know Marika is familiar with the technique so I have to assume that the leather she is working with is particularly problematic.

The one thing you don't want to do is apply something like edge dressing (despite the name).DAMHIKT

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Re: Closing techniques

#371 Post by artzend » Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:22 pm

Marika

Always fold your edges. Raw edges always look shoddy.

Tim
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Re: Closing techniques

#372 Post by danfreeman » Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:15 am

Mirika

When the use of heavy upper leathers requires cut edges, slightly skive, as suggested by Frank and DW, then use a lacquer type dye, such as Dyo-Flex or similar product--carefully! It takes ten minutes to dry, and will "print" onto anything on which it is placed. Rub lightly while it's drying, it will seal, de-fuzz, and not spread.

Dan

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Re: Closing techniques

#373 Post by marika_vchasse » Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:48 am

Hello ! Thank you all for piping in and sharing your tricks - very much appreciated !
Happy Spring :-)

Marika

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Re: Closing techniques

#374 Post by farmerfalconer » Tue May 28, 2013 10:17 am

I would like to line a pair of shoes partially with cloth. My question is which part should be lined cloth and which leather. Vamp cloth and quarters leather or vice versa?

Thanks,
Cody

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Re: Closing techniques

#375 Post by lancepryor » Tue May 28, 2013 1:17 pm

Traditionally the vamps were lined with linen material and the quarters with leather. I believe Frank Jones is of the opinion that this is superior to all-leather lining. I think in general most high end shoes these days are fully leather lined.

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