Looks good Jon. I've been thinking about building something like this. How is this clamp supported when stitching? (mount to the floor, the bench...etc? )
I had to resort to the poor man's method. Hold the boot between my knees! Not elegant, but got the job done.
-Nat
Closing techniques
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jon_g
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Re: Closing techniques
Nat,
The clamp is set between your knees and rests on the floor. The material is set between the jaws and the handle pushed down to clamp. Simple and effective, it holds both sides firmly.
The clamp is set between your knees and rests on the floor. The material is set between the jaws and the handle pushed down to clamp. Simple and effective, it holds both sides firmly.
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courtney
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Re: Closing techniques
I made one like this, works great!
http://www.wrtcleather.com/1-ckd/tutorials/_stitchpony.html
Courtney
http://www.wrtcleather.com/1-ckd/tutorials/_stitchpony.html
Courtney
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courtney
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Re: Closing techniques
Nat, Al Stohlman The art of handsewing leather has plans to build a real nice stitching horse that you can sit on.
Courtney
Courtney
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tomo
Re: Closing techniques
Traditional English saddlers use one (me included) that is about 44" - 46" overall. one end stands on the floor and you clamp the work between the tines. There is no tenshioning device apart from the tenshion induced by the tines themselves. They are usually about 18"- 24" beyond the common base. The tines or arms are screwed to a taper on this base and that gives you a LOT of tenshion. Sometimes you need to jam the head of the mallot in there to spring them.
You sew with the clamp on or against your left thigh but supported with your right leg. You can't see the awl coming out the back usually. Normally you support the sewing edge with the thumb and index finger of your left hand.
You never put your needles (2) awl or sometimes pliers down, so your hands become quite full!
Best.
Tom.
You sew with the clamp on or against your left thigh but supported with your right leg. You can't see the awl coming out the back usually. Normally you support the sewing edge with the thumb and index finger of your left hand.
You never put your needles (2) awl or sometimes pliers down, so your hands become quite full!
Best.
Tom.
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kemosabi
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Re: Closing techniques
Building one of these clamps looks like a good spring project. The garage is my place for woodworking but lately it’s been averaging 40 degrees. Maybe soon it will warm up enough for me to make some sawdust.
Here’s how it went sewing by hand:
Holing with my awl:
Each stitch marked with dividers.
Sewing with twin needles, overhand knot on each stitch. (just like inseaming). I used my normal inseaming thread at full thickness; I think it’s Nyltex… Synthetic anyway. Tried splitting it into thinner threads but this stuff doesn’t come apart gracefully. Anyway, it’s a very strong seam!
Trimming the extra.
Here’s how it went sewing by hand:
Holing with my awl:
Each stitch marked with dividers.
Sewing with twin needles, overhand knot on each stitch. (just like inseaming). I used my normal inseaming thread at full thickness; I think it’s Nyltex… Synthetic anyway. Tried splitting it into thinner threads but this stuff doesn’t come apart gracefully. Anyway, it’s a very strong seam!
Trimming the extra.
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tomo
Re: Closing techniques
Hey Nat that looks great!
Those seams won't blow apart.
Try stitching towards yourself and as you push the second needle through the hole pull the first thread out slightly with your left hand as you do so. This will stop the needle piercing the first thread and jaming you up.
Also if you can get some saddler's or harness maker's egg eye sewing needles (maybe size 1 or 1/0) you won't harpoon your fingers with the sharp point - unless of course you like the severe adrenilin rush it generates.
Again, great job man.
Tom.
Those seams won't blow apart.
Try stitching towards yourself and as you push the second needle through the hole pull the first thread out slightly with your left hand as you do so. This will stop the needle piercing the first thread and jaming you up.
Also if you can get some saddler's or harness maker's egg eye sewing needles (maybe size 1 or 1/0) you won't harpoon your fingers with the sharp point - unless of course you like the severe adrenilin rush it generates.
Again, great job man.
Tom.
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kemosabi
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Re: Closing techniques
Not sure why I chose to use the harpoon needles. Lately, I've been using the harness type (as you suggested) and they definitely work better... and feel better if I happen to catch one of the points!
Also;
Just ran across a very simple stitching fixture made from a single board probably cut with a bandsaw. This design looks like it would work OK, until I can build a fancier one.
-Nat
Also;
Just ran across a very simple stitching fixture made from a single board probably cut with a bandsaw. This design looks like it would work OK, until I can build a fancier one.
-Nat
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tomo
Re: Closing techniques
Hey Nat,
It's called a lacing pony ie they use them for edge lacing on wallets and bags etc.
They're quite short. You sit in a chair and place the flat base under your thighs with the business end coming up between your legs. It should work as long as that wing nut and screw are deep enough down to allow you to get an upper in. I have used one but not in a long while.
Glad you changed the needles
T.
It's called a lacing pony ie they use them for edge lacing on wallets and bags etc.
They're quite short. You sit in a chair and place the flat base under your thighs with the business end coming up between your legs. It should work as long as that wing nut and screw are deep enough down to allow you to get an upper in. I have used one but not in a long while.
Glad you changed the needles
T.
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tomo
Re: Closing techniques
Actually Nat if you're going to make one and have access to a band saw you may as well make one like I use. I'll try and take some pics, but I'll need to upload from a PC.
T.
T.
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gshoes
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Re: Closing techniques
Here is one that someone just brought to a leather guild meeting. It had a bolt that can be tightened if needed. It measured 4 feet long. Held on an angle under one leg.
Geri
Geri
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gshoes
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Re: Closing techniques
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kemosabi
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Re: Closing techniques
It's great to see all the different flavors for these.
Tom,
If you want; you can email the pictures to me and I'll post them. (if that helps).
-Nat
Tom,
If you want; you can email the pictures to me and I'll post them. (if that helps).
-Nat
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kemosabi
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Re: Closing techniques
Geri,
In your fourth picture; It looks like the thread is pulling tight to one side and I'm curious why that is. Is someone else holding it?
Whenever I stitch, the threads are hanging in drooping loops towards the floor, unless I'm pulling them tight of course.
Thanks for sharing.
I'm a visual learner (learn by seeing), so pictures are much appreciated.
-Nat
In your fourth picture; It looks like the thread is pulling tight to one side and I'm curious why that is. Is someone else holding it?
Whenever I stitch, the threads are hanging in drooping loops towards the floor, unless I'm pulling them tight of course.
Thanks for sharing.
I'm a visual learner (learn by seeing), so pictures are much appreciated.
-Nat
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gshoes
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Re: Closing techniques
Nat,
That is a very good question and you are quite observant. The gentleman was giving a demonstration on a new way of saddle stitching. It turned out after seeing the demo that he was not saddle stitching at all. He is using what I believe is called a speedy awl. So while the stitching is quicker it is only a lock stitch very much if not exacting like a sewing machine would make. But I think that the stitching pony would be great for saddle stitching also.
Geri
That is a very good question and you are quite observant. The gentleman was giving a demonstration on a new way of saddle stitching. It turned out after seeing the demo that he was not saddle stitching at all. He is using what I believe is called a speedy awl. So while the stitching is quicker it is only a lock stitch very much if not exacting like a sewing machine would make. But I think that the stitching pony would be great for saddle stitching also.
Geri
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kemosabi
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Re: Closing techniques
Posting this for TomO:
----------------------------------------------
Here are some pics of me using a stitch clamp. I am a saddler by profession and have been for over 35 years. The methods are handed down from tradesman to apprentice and my methods are ‘true to label’.
The two clamps are used daily. The lighter coloured one is made from ply and laminated on a curve. Its action is softer than the reddy coloured one which is quite severe. The red one is three pieces of wood cut out with a band saw. The centre piece stands on the floor and its top end is cut on a taper. The jaws are screwed to this taper and it’s this tension that holds the work.
The ply one is just two jaws that are screwed together at the bottom, i.e. flat to flat.
Both clamps are 45” long over all. You can see that I hold it against my left thigh and not quite vertical (I can’t see the back side of my work easily). I’m sitting on a stool with my feet up on a draw (some benches have a rail along the front to place your feet.
When I’m sewing I have both needles and the awl in my hands as well as a pair of pliers sometimes if it’s hard work. The pliers you pick up as and when but you never pick up or put down the awl or needles, they stay in your hands while you’re sewing.
Best regards
Tom
----------------------------------------------
Here are some pics of me using a stitch clamp. I am a saddler by profession and have been for over 35 years. The methods are handed down from tradesman to apprentice and my methods are ‘true to label’.
The two clamps are used daily. The lighter coloured one is made from ply and laminated on a curve. Its action is softer than the reddy coloured one which is quite severe. The red one is three pieces of wood cut out with a band saw. The centre piece stands on the floor and its top end is cut on a taper. The jaws are screwed to this taper and it’s this tension that holds the work.
The ply one is just two jaws that are screwed together at the bottom, i.e. flat to flat.
Both clamps are 45” long over all. You can see that I hold it against my left thigh and not quite vertical (I can’t see the back side of my work easily). I’m sitting on a stool with my feet up on a draw (some benches have a rail along the front to place your feet.
When I’m sewing I have both needles and the awl in my hands as well as a pair of pliers sometimes if it’s hard work. The pliers you pick up as and when but you never pick up or put down the awl or needles, they stay in your hands while you’re sewing.
Best regards
Tom
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goatman
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Re: Closing techniques
Nice pix. I'm building a couple of stitching ponies for myself, and it's good to see how others are made. Mine will use ideas from several different ponies that I've seen. THX
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amuckart
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Re: Closing techniques
For machine closing most people seem to use a machine with a wheel presser.
Assuming equivalent needle/thread sizes, can anyone tell me if it's practical to use a compound feed walking foot machine instead?
I'm thinking explicitly of closing, rather than decorative stitching which would seem to need the maneuverability afforded by a wheel foot.
I've got wheel foot machines, but I'm extremely space constrained and I've got a (non-shoe) need for a compound feed flatbed, so I'm wondering if it could do double duty as a closing machine too.
Thanks.
Assuming equivalent needle/thread sizes, can anyone tell me if it's practical to use a compound feed walking foot machine instead?
I'm thinking explicitly of closing, rather than decorative stitching which would seem to need the maneuverability afforded by a wheel foot.
I've got wheel foot machines, but I'm extremely space constrained and I've got a (non-shoe) need for a compound feed flatbed, so I'm wondering if it could do double duty as a closing machine too.
Thanks.
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dw
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Re: Closing techniques
^ Well there's several aspects to this....
First, does the presser foot have sharp teeth to pull the leather? If so these run the risk of tearing or cutting the surface as the machine feeds. You may not even notice it at first but it will probably be there esp. on fine grained shoe leathers.
Second, how closely do you want to sew to the edge? Or to another line of stitching? If the walking foot is two "pronged" then you won't be able to see the line of stitching that you're following very well.
Other than that I can't see any reason why it wouldn't work.
FWIW, Al Saguto sometimes uses a patcher. He has filled in the teeth of the presserfoot with silicone rubber IIRC.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member
First, does the presser foot have sharp teeth to pull the leather? If so these run the risk of tearing or cutting the surface as the machine feeds. You may not even notice it at first but it will probably be there esp. on fine grained shoe leathers.
Second, how closely do you want to sew to the edge? Or to another line of stitching? If the walking foot is two "pronged" then you won't be able to see the line of stitching that you're following very well.
Other than that I can't see any reason why it wouldn't work.
FWIW, Al Saguto sometimes uses a patcher. He has filled in the teeth of the presserfoot with silicone rubber IIRC.
Tight Stitches
DWFII--HCC Member
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jon_g
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Re: Closing techniques
My thoughts are the same as DW has said above. I don't think you could match the results of a roller wheel with a presser foot. If you are looking to achieve fine results you really need a machine that is maneuverable, smooth, and gentle.
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amuckart
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Re: Closing techniques
Thanks DW.
You can get various types of feet for the machines, they feed with a lower feed dog, an upper centre foot and the needle all at once, and there are outer feet that hold the work while the inner foot and needle return. Those outer feet can be double, left, or right, and come in various styles. Because the needle is feeding too, it should in theory be possible to have the centre foot totally smooth and still get an accurate feed.
I've got a scrap of Topy outsole kicking around ready to glue onto the foot of my 29k58 once I've replaced the rack assembly and got it to actually sew.
I'll go look at the machine and give it a go.
Cheers.
You can get various types of feet for the machines, they feed with a lower feed dog, an upper centre foot and the needle all at once, and there are outer feet that hold the work while the inner foot and needle return. Those outer feet can be double, left, or right, and come in various styles. Because the needle is feeding too, it should in theory be possible to have the centre foot totally smooth and still get an accurate feed.
I've got a scrap of Topy outsole kicking around ready to glue onto the foot of my 29k58 once I've replaced the rack assembly and got it to actually sew.
I'll go look at the machine and give it a go.
Cheers.
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amuckart
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Re: Closing techniques
There's a Brother LS2-B837 going comparatively cheap on TradeMe right now. It's utter overkill for closing, but I want something that I can use to repair my giant canvas tent of doom with, and also use for strap work etc. If I can use it for lighter work like closing that's a bonus and will save me some space.