Closing techniques

[dearbone]

DW,

The Dover, I was referring to is the one Lance send us yesterday, the link is few posts higher.

Nasser

[dw]

Nasser,

OK, thanks...

Sorry I missed the name. I guess I was just in too much of a hurry to actually see the photo.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[lancepryor]

DW:

You probably know this, but there's a great collection of pictures of RTW shoes by E Green, J Lobb, C&J, Vass, and others here:

http://www.styleforum.net/showthread.php?t=33612

Lance

[das]

All,

I've been following this thread with no little interest to see where it might go before I jumped in and dropped "the bomb", as this essay has become


'Edge Closing 101"--

Note: "round closing" (plus "flat closing" ), "split and lift" closing, being called butt seaming here, are a family of sewing stitches known as "edge closing", i.e., sewing "with a split-hold" (the awl splits through the substance of the leather--the stitch is only biting through part of the substance at the edge)--versus "stabbing", or stitching straight through, in one side and out the other like a sewing machine does. The "hold" (the purchase taken in either piece of leather being joined in depth and in distance back from the cut edge) is made with a very small curved awl blade (1 1/2" to 2" long) entering the surface, dipping down, then exiting the cut edge, entering the other cut edge, then curving up and exiting on the surface of the other piece. Bristles are essential for sewing this seam. I recommend you use linen thread, the same wax you use for inseaming, and loop the thread on the left-hand side to form a half-cast stitch (half-hitch knot) as when welt sewing. Pre-spun linen machine twist in 3 cord 18, 3 cord 25, and 3 cord 35 are available in small spools in white, brown, and black from Windmill English Saddlery (Ohio, USA), or from Abby Saddlery (UK). Bonded nylon machine thread will be too stretchy, and good on you if you can make a taw on the end, much less keep your bristles on nylon thread. Three cord up to 7 cord linen stitcher threads work fine here as well, if you have this on hand.

These stitches are made one at a time by eye (you may trace a faint line a little in from the edges to follow if you must), i.e. pierce the hole, make
the stitch, pierce the next hole, make the next stitch, etc. No pre-holing, or nothing will align right. This sewing is done by eye--actually by feel--because when you pierce with the awl or pull the stitches in tight the leather puckers-up into the round bit, and as you sew along the leather may get softer/firmer so you will need to carefully adjust your hold to compensate. Under no circumstances should you slavishly follow pre-marked holes rolled-out by a pricking wheel. The result will be anything but precise, because the leather will not accept the stitches evenly when drawn in tight. When correctly done there should be no evidence of sewing on the reverse side, at least no thread showing/breaking through.

The two pieces being joined are butted together edge to edge in their proper position over an arched wooden block (imagine the thick end of a baseball bat, sawed in half, about 5" long) "D" shaped with the flat bit down. This is held along the left thigh to keep the pieces in them in the proper attitude and alignment. You are of course working while seated on a low bench or stool, as for sewing the welt, etc. If the work is butted together on a flat surface, the leather is not arched, and the awl consequently cannot make a tight neat seam of proper depth close to the edge--the "secret" is, the leather must be supported from below in an arc over the "closing block"; then a stirrup strap is passed over the work to hold it in place leaving hands free for sewing, just like when you sew the welt/stitch the outsole. My stirrup for closing is 1 1/2" wide, and has a cut about 12" long down the center so it can be spread open to create an opening for working in. Half the stirrup is holding the work above, and half below the area you're sewing, working in the opening through the stirrup.

Any good leather can be "round closed", but for best results it ought to be tight, plump, whole-grain (not splits) veg (or a lot of veg in a re-tan) and preferably well curried and mellow. Best to test by closing some scraps first. If upon drawing in the stitches tight and hard with a hand leather (on the left hand) and using the knob provided for this purpose on the end of the awl-haft on the right as a capstan, the thread wants to cut right through, you're sewing through "cheese"--not advisable. If, on the other hand, when you pierce your hole with the awl (dipped in beeswax at each piercing for lubrication) the leather tears out as the awl goes splitting through--again, probably not advisable to attempt edge closing on that leather.

Absolutely no need for the uppers to be 8-9 oz veg! Who said that?

We routinely round close uppers varying in weight from 3.5-4 oz. to 5-6oz. maximum thickness. On the thinnest leathers you just have to be careful is all, and not be as strident with the awl or pull the stitches in as tight as you would on stronger skins. We are finding it increasingly difficult to get leathers that will hold high numbers of stitches per inch without cutting through. Eight to 12 per inch is about as fine as you dare try, though in the "old days" perfectly utilitarian uppers (not prize work at all) were commonly edge closed at 12 to 15 or more spi. Chrome leathers are not as satisfactory for edge closing as veg, but then chrome leather is not as satisfactory in most respects, as it is about as close to lifeless plastic as one could make from an otherwise perfectly good animal skin IMHO.

After you've closed your seam, tap it down flat (lightly!), the butt of the awl-haft works nicely for this. Or, you can find/make a light wooden
version of the iron paste-fitters' hammer. Take the sharper end of a bone folder, or other similar stick, press it up against the outside of the row
of stitches and push them in hard towards the middle of the seam to straighten-out any errant stitches, and make a nice clean line of it. Do
both sides of course. Then rub down the "round" hummock bit hard to burnish it. There are (were) special iron seam-setts for setting the stitches (IOW round closing, flat closing, and stabbing seam-setts), used heated to momentarily soften the waxed threads and thus easily move the rows tightly up into a line. Afterwards the seam is painted (with your finger) with gum tragacanth ("gum dragon" ) to saturate and harden it. But, all this is probably too much fuss and finesse if you're only doing this once in awhile, or using chrome leathers.

Someone asked about edge-closing on the grain, on the outside of the work. This is risky, but it can be done. My advice is to take care that the point
of your closing awl is not sharpened off round the sides or it will tend to cut the grain on either side of the actual hole, especially if you wiggle it through, as most of us are in the bad habit of doing. When pulling-in the stitches, you must expect a little cutting of the grain on either side of the stitch hole, but if after an inch or two of experimenting on scraps, the grain separates, cuts, or comes up in tatters at each hole, that leather will not do for edge closing.

Okay now... "round closing" produces two parallel rows of stitches with a drawn-up round (hence the name) hummock of leather down the middle where the two cut edges met. The cut edges must be dead-plumb--there is usually no skiving or angle cutting involved. "Split and lift" closing, as used putting boot tongues into the opening in the bottom of the boot leg is a different matter. As the name implies, this seam "splits" the hold on the edge of one piece, and actually digs into the surface, then up and out on the other, hence "lift". In other cases, this stitch "splits" the hold on the thick side "A", and stabs through the folded-up edge of the abutting thinner piece "B" rather like this:

A=============I________________B

Both techniques are used on English riding boot tongues and expose no stitches to wear on the outside (where the stirrup iron can rub right through them). Why not just round close the tongues inside then? Traditionally/properly, the leather (flesh-out waxed-calf) is thicker for the vamp and counter, and marginally thinner/lighter for the boot leg. This means you're facing edge closing two different weights/thicknesses of leather--round closing only works satisfactorily when edge closing two identical weights of leather. Split-and-lift closing, as in the diagram above, is done similarly to round closing on the closing block, the work is held down by the stirrup. The awl enters the thicker piece (the vamp) first, exits its edge, then pierces (stabbing) right through the upturned edge of the thinner adjacent piece (the boot leg). This creates a combination hold: split on one side, stabbed on the other. No law says the seam must be the same hold on both pieces, but this is too complicated to get into here.

7510.jpg

Here is a detail shot of the side of a boot I made several years ago--nothing fancy, just bare-bones. It shows the juncture of the tongue, the vamp-wing, and the counter. On the upper left is a row of stabbing stitching the top-line of the counter to the boot leg (this seam can be done "split-and-lift" outside for a nicer effect, but I was in a hurry); the slightly angled seam going up and down in the middle joins the front-facing edge of the counter to the back edge of the vamp-wing, and is round closed on the outside (note how the round hummock protects and recesses the threads); on the right is a bit of the tongue-closing at the boot leg, done split-and-lift on the inside. As this was waxed-calf, the tongue closing (always done inside) is consequently on the grain. Hint: because a boot's tongue closed to the leg inside must stand for the life of the boot, and in nearly impossible to repair, this inside seam is nothing pretty. Use stout strong threads, plenty of wax, and adjust the hold, depth, and pitch of the closing with every stitch for maximum strength and solidity--it's better if stitches wander out of perfect alignment, as long as each stitch takes and grabs a good strong hold.

There is "flat closing" too, but this has gotten too long as it is. I would encourage any of you who want to try this to suffer(?) through reading John F. Rees 'The Art and Mystery of a Cordwainer' (London, 1813). He goes into excruciating detail on all these stitches, their applications, and the pros and cons of each in his rambling Georgian English. The important point to note is, edge-closing is much stronger than stabbing (over-lapping), because you are drawing the two edges together, butting them, and the quantity of thread and the all-important wax in the work is greater. Over-lapped and stabbed seams want to sheer, that is the over-lapping layers are pulling against the threads at a right angle=weaker. Even if you stab face to face, and open out the seam, it is still weaker than edge-closing. The little round hummock that rises up in the middle of the edge-closed seam stands proud of the thread protecting it from rubbing, and the threads are recessed on each side in the little valleys it creates. One would be rather hard pressed to find any surviving leather shoes or boots that were not edge closed in some manner from the late 1500s right up to the early-mid 1800s(when uppers got lighter-weight, and full linings begin to creep in). Edge closing proved its worth in strength, and left no lumps or seam allowances inside to rub the foot.. Throughout the 16th, 17th, and 18thc. most uppers were made un-lined in the modern sense, and stouter leathers were the norm (4-5-6oz.). Inside stiffening and reinforcement was done commonly by whip-stitching (not showing outside) pieces directly to the upper, at the toe, heel, or along the lower sides, i.e. side-linings.

I might add that the "rustic" appeal of the "dog-leg" side seams was for added strength. Even in modern Derby shoes, the side seam between the vamp and quarters is still a curved "dog legs". It is clear that a compound angled seam distributes the stresses placed on it tangentially to any one angle of the side-seam, so they are not so apt to pull apart or break open in wear. If you make your side-seam more or less vertical from the sole up, it is inherently weaker because the forces applied to it in walking are trying to pull it apart. For those of you familiar with making or wearing Civil War style bootees ("brogans" ), these combine the worst of both worlds so to speak. The side-seams are vertical, only slightly angled, and they are over-lapped and stabbed through, and they blow-out with not much wear at all. I've worn the same "dog leg" side-seamed shoes everyday for almost 20 years, and have never had a side-seam fail. The bottoms will let go long before the side-seams let go.

BTW, "tunnel stitching" is a made-up term circa late 1960s, invented from thin air by the late John Thornton to describe a running stitch that wormed (literally) it's way from one piece to another on Roman-Medieval sole repairs. The term has been imprecisely bandied about for all sorts of edge-closing seams, because people did not know the traditional terms. It's too late to make this term go away because it's already in print and current everywhere, but no shoe or bootmaker would have known what you meant by saying "tunnel stitch"--it's museum jargon.

7511.jpg

Here's a side detail of a plain-Jane, English-made, grain-out, top boot c.1780, recovered from the wreck of the British ship "The General Carleton of Whitby", now held by the museum of Gdansk, Poland. This boot brings to 7 or 8 the total surviving 18thc. English top boots we have to study. Note, it is entirely round closed inside (on the flesh), and still holding up quite well.

Al

[dw]

Al,

Phew!! I read your treatise three times...once to format it and prepare it and the next two times to make sure I understood it.

This is really helpful.Thank you for it.

So..."butt seaming" or "skin stitching" is actually more precisely known as "edge closing," and "tunnel stitching" (I re-invented that term not having read it in Thornton that I can recall) is correctly "split-hold" stitching?

In your first photo, the angled round closing is stitched from the grain surface (or what would be the grain surface if that were full grain chrome calf) so I assume that having the stitches showing on a round closed seam was commonplace.

I saw a photo essay of a buckle shoe (circa 18th century) being put together (you gave me the link) and noted that the dog leg seam was stabbed. But when you were out here, I seem to recall you saying that such a seam might be round closed. Am I so off base to think that round closing the dogleg on my Neo-Jacobite shoes captures the appropriate sensibility if not precise historical accuracy?

One other question...surely if you are round closing and come to a "corner" (or "point" such as in that same first photo) in the pattern, do you not make sure that one of your stitches is right down the center of the point? And if so, wouldn't you have to angle the "outside" stitches as you approach the corner and recede from it so as not to be forced to crowd extra stitches into the corner hole? (Gee, that's confusing...I don't know how else to say it, though)


Thanks again for getting all this down for us. I learned a lot....

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[lancepryor]

Al:

Thanks for the great tutorial. I don't know that I'll ever use it for anything, but it's fun to learn the right way to do these things....

I think it is interesting that these seams are actually stronger than a regular, sewn (stabbed) seam. Makes sense when you explain it, although I'm sure the strength is also dependent on the skill of the sewer, much more so than a stabbed seam.

So, the E Green Dover features a 'round closed' (unless it's 'flat closed'!) stitch, sewn from the grain side, on the toe seam; and a 'split and lift' seam , sewn from the grain side, on the apron seam.



Nasser:

You can get some very small Barnsley curved sewing/closing awls from Edwin Hale of Hale & Co (805-636-1442). If you call him, please tell him I sent you.

Lance

[dw]

Lance,

Unless I'm totally confused, the Dover is round closed, sewn from the flesh side on the toe.

Maybe that's what you meant to say?

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[lancepryor]

Dw:

Oops, I got the sides of the leather bassackwards -- the toe seam is sewn from the flesh side, and the apron seam is sewn from the grain side. Doh! (At least I got the apron seam correct the first go-round.) Thanks for catching my error.

Lance

[dw]

Lance,

Well, I just wanted to make sure I understood correctly. No biggie.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[amuckart]

Al,

Thank you for that essay. That seam is a mainstay of medieval shoemaking and it's great to see a master's take on it. It also helps make a lot more sense of Rees.

I have a question from the point of view of someone who has only worked out how to do this from a book.

When I've done it I haven't managed to cover the stitches the way you talk about. I always end up with exposed stitches on the inside of the shoe. I'm doing this with a straight awl, curved ones not having been invented yet . Does that make a difference to how the hold forms over the stitches, or am I just using too thick a thread?

Here's a picture of one of my more successful efforts showing what I mean. There's no scale but the thread is three strands of #10 in 5-6oz cow and the seam is ~12-13 stitches/inch

7521.jpg

[amuckart]

DW,

With respect to what you do when you get to the point I'll offer this rather ugly example of what I did in the hope that someone can correct me if this is totally the wrong thing to do.

What I did was have two stitches that share a hole on one side of the hold but angle off in different directions. I did this in an attempt to have the stitches remaining perpendicular to the seam. It never actually ocurred to me to awl a hole right through the point of the angle.

7523.jpg

Here's a close up with quickly scribbled red lines indicating the path the stitches take through the leather.

7524.jpg

[amuckart]

While I was rummaging through my pictures I found this one of a closing seam in progress under my stirrup so I thought I'd throw it in here .

7526.jpg

I doubt Al's description of a stirrup and closing block will be news to most regular readers of this forum but it wasn't that long ago that it was news to me so I hope this makes things a bit clearer for the next confused newbie who comes across this thread

Please ignore the fact that I'm using a cork block . This was the first shoe I'd made using this setup and the first closing block I made was the wrong shape. The cork block worked surprisingly well.

I since made a closing block out of a piece of 2x2 and instead of making it semi-circular on top I made it this shape:

7527.jpg

That shape gives various options for the angle depending on which way around it is and where the seam is placed. Using straight awls this is quite useful.

[das]

Lance,

Thanks. Glad it was enlightening. If I get more "spare" time (whatever that is) I may do a essay on flat closing--very esoteric and seldom seen since c.1800 anyway, so you're not missing anything there.

You can try Colin Barnsley at Woodenware Repetitions for tiny closing awls (old stock), but good luck. I bought a selection 25+ years ago when Barnsley was still making them 1 3/4" to 2" long, and then bought another load off of David Lobb (no relations to London Lobbs) that he'd picked up from old hand-sewn men's kits. Some of those were so tiny and fine I dared not use them for fear of snapping the blades. The last new-made samples from Colin B. I saw were 2 1/4" long, and too thick for really fine work. He did have a rather straight fine blade with only a curved tip called a "cricket ball awl" which was closer to the right diameter, and those work sort of. Two buddies here got a hoard of tiny closing awls off of eBay about two years ago, and we've been living off of those. They are rare, rare, rare these days. Happy hunting

[das]

Alasdair,

Thanks for the kind words--makes the hours of typing worthwhile

If you look at the upper photo I posted of the boot, you can see the stitches of the round closing are not actually hidden. After you rub your rows up hard with a stick, then burnish the round hummock down as well, it begins to cover them a little better than not doing any of this. But, in all cases the stitches ought to show. For lighter-weight work you can even use masheen/mashen/machine, the pounded-together white wax, so the threads look like rows of tiny pearls.

Three strands of #10 works, my guys use that. But as weak as #10 has become now that the staple fibers of the yarn are all broken on cotton machinery down to a poultry 3", from their former flaxen glory of 6"+ staples, I've taken to using pre-spun Barbour's (red hand label) stitcher thread in 1 lb. spools in 5, 6, and 7 cord. The individual strands of this are finer than #10, so for a given diameter thread, you are getting more yarns in there=stronger.

Your closing looks great! Wanna a job?

[das]

All,

BTW, erstwhile Marc Carlson has rendered a pretty good illustrated section of all of this on his website here: http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/shoe/STITCH.HTM

His glossary is illustrated, and worth a look too. He straightens-out "tunnel-" and "catipillar-stitches" as well.

[dearbone]

Al,

Thank you for dropping that "Bomb" on us, I guarantee you no one was hurt, but brought alot of food for thoughts,it sorted out for me how those lobb's boot were sewn at the tongue and leg and thanks for giving the historical reasons behind it.
Rene walk in the shop yesterday while i was reading your post,so i asked him for a close up of the Lobb boots and if i receive and can manage, i will post them here.

Regards Nasser

[dearbone]

A couple of days ago, I said i need to find a small awl to sew some uppers,well this morning without expecting anything,i looked in the wooden box where i keep my awls and needles,so i poured all of them on the table and behold,there was tiny 2" long sewing awl among them,i don't know how it was delivered so fast,instead of thinking about it,i made a haft out of broken hammer handle for it.and guess what?it was a Barnsley made.
Regards Nasser.

7529.jpg

[dw]

Nasser,

Unexpected gifts...it comes from leaving a plate of cookies out for the elves every night.

BTW, it is not impossible to grind down a sewing awl to make it smaller or finer. I do this often with broken sewing awls--sometimes I even convert them to pegging awls. Of course the farther it is from the final size to begin with, the more material you have to remove and the harder the overall job is but as long as you don't ruin the temper it can be done.

There is a photo of the awl I use for round closing (what little I have fooled with) in this thread ...first post, last photo in the 26-50 archives. The little sewing awl with the round ebony (black and white ) handle.

Tight Stitches
DWFII--Member HCC

[dearbone]

DW,

Thanks for reminding me where the awl came from, i was thinking in that direction myself as well.
I noticed the awl you made, very fancy,i like it,i save my broken awls,but I only resharpened my broken German awl,my teacher gave to me and i didn't want to lose it.

Al,

You are right on the money with your descriptions about edge closing,it is indeed an honour to have you here and learn from you and the other boot and shoemakers,i finally received a couple close ups of the lobb made boots, courtesy Mr Rene Hackstetter.
Regards nasser.

7532.jpg

7533.jpg

[dearbone]

How foolish of me to think the top thread on the the tongue was a separate thread than the edge closing thread some quarter century ago when i first these boots,but the mystery remained in my mind until DW brought up the subject again and Al gave the description that i realized that the top thread is the same thread as edge closing thread.

Nasser

[amuckart]

Al,

If you look at the upper photo I posted of the boot, you can see the stitches of the round closing are not actually hidden. After you rub your rows up hard with a stick, then burnish the round hummock down as well, it begins to cover them a little better than not doing any of this. But, in all cases the stitches ought to show. For lighter-weight work you can even use masheen/mashen/machine, the pounded-together white wax, so the threads look like rows of tiny pearls.

That all makes sense. The stitches in your example are just camouflaged in the finish a lot more than mine. I haven't managed to make a good black wax yet, I'm still using a melted mix of rosin and beeswax. A mix of the Gugolz #55, stockholm tar and rosin looks promising but I haven't found the time to work through the permutations to find a good recipie.

Three strands of #10 works, my guys use that. But as weak as #10 has become now that the staple fibers of the yarn are all broken on cotton machinery down to a poultry 3", from their former flaxen glory of 6"+ staples, I've taken to using pre-spun Barbour's (red hand label) stitcher thread in 1 lb. spools in 5, 6, and 7 cord. The individual strands of this are finer than #10, so for a given diameter thread, you are getting more yarns in there=stronger.

I'll keep that in mind. Since it's plied up I'm assuming you taper it much the same way DW demonstrated with his teklon to put the bristles on?

The #10 I'm using is the 1940's Acadia hemp thread from the chap on ebay. I bought five boxes (240 balls) of it a while ago. The shipping was murderous but now I've got a supply to last me a while. The staple length isn't quite 6' but it's still quite long. I have a friend in Auckland who is learning to spin flax on a drop spindle. The stuff she's spinning is 4-5' staples.

Your closing looks great! Wanna a job?

I'd love one, but the commute from Wellington to Virginia might be a bit of a problem.

Cheers.

[das]

Alasdair,

PINE-PITCH NEWS FLASH!--This is the wrong thread, and nobody'll find this gem unless they search, but we finally got our Ausen's "Navy Pitch" from Sweden through Noxidol Co. and it's 90% bitumen coal-tar pitch. It's just makes black slime as far as shoemakers' wax goes, slippery and not at all tacky like decent wax ought to be. I did talk with a chap on the phone yesterday who knows his pine-pitch, during what I have dubbed "The Great Pitch-hunt" (like "Witch-hunt" ). He knew and dealt with Mr. Rausch at Rausch Naval Stores in New Orleans (destroyed during Hurricane Katrina), and said that he mixed-up his pitch, the stuff we used to buy. His suggestion was to use Stockholm tar (aromatic viscous liquid) and pine rosin chunks to make the dark brown solid "pitch", and then mix those chunks again with rosin and beeswax to the consistency we need for wax.

I'll LYK how our experiments in that direction turn out. Meanwhile we're still awaiting samples of solid chunk Swedish and Norway pitch.

On your question on the pre-made, plied threads, yes. I wind the thread a few time round my left index finger with a 4"-5" end hanging free; lay that end on the lapboard, and draw in under the blade of a knife to fray-off the tapered "taw". You want to hold the knife still, and drag the thread under it, not visa versa, or you tend to cut rather than scrape.

I haven't tried my Acadia hemp yet, but I did un-spin a length to check the staple length, and while better than the current "Best Common" #10, it was still not as long as the old Campbell stuff I used to get in the 1970s. Weird.

Check out Bookmakers International in College Park, Maryland (USA) website. They have a huge selection of linen threads.

"Commute"? Who said commute. You could do out-work and ship it up here *Bwahahahaha*.

Here's a photo I borrowed from the website of former apprentice and HCC old-timer Sarah Juniper (hope she won't mind). A great example of round closing a boot tongue on the grain--so you see it can be done neatly. Check out her website: http://www.sarahjuniper.co.uk/

7545.jpg

[paul]

Al,

Wow! Thanks for the link!

I'm infatuated.

Paul

[dearbone]

Al,

Thanks for link to the above site, "Long live the nomads(Bedouins for me)".

Nasser

[lancepryor]

Al:

re: the Auson stuff. Yes, after reviewing their site and product information, it was clear to me that the 'Navy Pitch' is at least partly a coal-tar product, though the percentage wasn't given.

To reiterate an earlier post, I bought some of the Auson 'Kiln Burned Pine Tar,' which they say is made in the old fashioned way. It certainly has a nice, smoky smell to it and is pretty sticky though liquid. I cooked it down to pitch by getting rid of the turpentine, and it makes a pretty sticky pitch, at least by my standards. I'm not sure how the EPA would look upon my efforts....

The subsequent batch of hand thread I made with the 'pitch' is a bit brittle, so I need to get some tallow (so I've been advised) to make it less so. However, it certainly is pretty sticky and now that warmer weather is here it may work well.

On a related note, have you noticed any significant difference of the impact of your choice of rosin on your hand wax? All of the ones I've made -- from both the Auson 'pitch' and the Gugolz #73 -- have been a bit too brittle, and I am just wondering if the rosin I'm using is a cause -- the stuff I'm using is from Kremer Pigments.


Nasser:

The work on those Lobb boots looks amazing.

Lance