"The Art and Mysterie..."

Share secrets, compare techniques, discuss the merits of materials--eg. veg vs. chrome--and above all, seek knowledge.
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Re: "The Art and Mysterie..."

#426 Post by paul » Sun May 13, 2012 5:34 am

Ok. That way all of the control for heel height stays in the front panel when using a standard 1/2" draft on the back panel.

I found it's not that easy anyway to get such a steep draft, almost 3/4", to spread and lay evenly on the counter at the margin line.

I think I just needed to ask the question to get my thinking lined up. Thanks for helping me clear that up.

Paul

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Re: "The Art and Mysterie..."

#427 Post by farmerfalconer » Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:28 pm

Im confused! After reading through lots of the Art and Mysterie I have picked up some new vocabulary. What is Crimping? I thought I knew what blocking was but then I saw the word crimping used where I thought blocking was proper I became befuddledImage Also what are cruel boards?

Thanks!
Sincerely,
Very Confused AKA Cody

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Re: "The Art and Mysterie..."

#428 Post by kemosabi » Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:56 pm

Crimping and blocking are two words for the same thing.
Cruel boards have more angle, thus making the leather stretch more into a bend (closer to 90 degrees) which helps the upper settle properly down on the last during lasting.

Don't feel bad, I'm still befuddled most of the time!

Cheers,
-Nat

(Message edited by Kemosabi on February 04, 2013)

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Re: "The Art and Mysterie..."

#429 Post by farmerfalconer » Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:03 pm

Thanks Nat!
Cody

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Re: "The Art and Mysterie..."

#430 Post by dw » Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:37 am


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Re: "The Art and Mysterie..."

#431 Post by tjburr » Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:29 pm

DW,

Thanks for posting these.

Terry

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Re: "The Art and Mysterie..."

#432 Post by dw » Wed Mar 27, 2013 7:09 am

Terry,

You're welcome...

From 2009, burnishable water buffalo.
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Re: "The Art and Mysterie..."

#433 Post by dw » Wed Mar 27, 2013 7:13 am

The other (medial) side--the "difficult" side.
15222.jpg
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Re: "The Art and Mysterie..."

#434 Post by elfn » Wed Mar 27, 2013 7:28 am

The shoes I'm wearing have a single piece kangaroo lining. It wasn't too difficult to do, just attention to detail.

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Re: "The Art and Mysterie..."

#435 Post by dearbone » Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:19 am

DW,

We have known and seen that shoes can be made in one piece leather with or without seam. My question is what are the pros and cons of making a "One piece boot"? Seam in the back and provided a 3d shape for leg and calf to be crimped and stretched and cut.

Nasser

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Re: "The Art and Mysterie..."

#436 Post by jesselee » Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:27 am

Nasser,

I have made several pairs of one piece boots with a back seam as many high end officers boots were made during the Civil War. The whole foot, throat element is very different.

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JesseLee

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Re: "The Art and Mysterie..."

#437 Post by jesselee » Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:16 am

I just pulled the first one of a one piece boot onto the legger (forming board). Took me 15 minutes. One piece boots are NOT crimped as in full Wellingtons, nor is a crimping screw or crimping board used. It may be possible, but why invent the wheel. These ones will have an inside side seam, very difficult on a one piece boot as all the leather stretches at about a 45% angle unlike on a full Wellington. I will get some pictures when they are made.

DW,
Nice job on the one piece shoes. They are fun to make at best.

Cheers,

JesseLee

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Re: "The Art and Mysterie..."

#438 Post by farmerfalconer » Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:19 am

Wow. That was a great article. Thanks for posting. He talks about when burnishing you are actually burning the leather. is that true? wouldnt it hurt the leather?
Also, How is that bracing done for the trial fit?

Thanks,
Cody

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#439 Post by dw » Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:32 pm

farmerfalconer wrote:Wow. That was a great article. Thanks for posting. He talks about when burnishing you are actually burning the leather. is that true? wouldnt it hurt the leather?
Also, How is that bracing done for the trial fit?

Thanks,
Cody
This is a month stale but if your question was about the seamless whole cut shoe and you will clarify your question abut bracing (?) I will be glad to answer.
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Re: "The Art and Mysterie..."

#440 Post by farmerfalconer » Mon May 06, 2013 12:36 pm

The bracing I was talking about was were they did a sort off whipstitch to hold the upper in place and do a trial fit on the shoe. with a temporary heel.

Thanks,
Cody

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Re: "The Art and Mysterie..."

#441 Post by dw » Mon May 06, 2013 1:00 pm

It's a variation of a whipstitch (you could use a simple whipstitch) that Hasluck describes in his book Boot Making and Mending, Including Repairing, Lasting, and Finishing, by Paul N. Hasluck, London, 1895.

I use it all the time...although a much tighter (and maybe reversed) version...for securing the heelseat on men's dress shoes.
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Re: "The Art and Mysterie..."

#442 Post by farmerfalconer » Mon May 13, 2013 4:55 am

Oh, thats simple enough. After doing that in the heel do you peg on a rand? If so do the pegs hurt the stitches?
sorry about the delay in response.

Thanks,
Cod

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Re: "The Art and Mysterie..."

#443 Post by dw » Mon May 13, 2013 5:42 am

farmerfalconer wrote:Oh, thats simple enough. After doing that in the heel do you peg on a rand? If so do the pegs hurt the stitches?
sorry about the delay in response.

Thanks,
Cod
Cody,

If it's done judiciously, the stitching doesn't come out towards the edge of the heel seat far enough to have any contact with the pegs. The pegs need to be positioned near the edge to keep the rand/heel seat from gaping open when the outsole and heel lifts are mounted.

And I'm still refining that whole area...trying to further flatten and "priddify" the way the leather lays over the insole. Still working on spacing and seating of the stitches. Had to make an awl to do it the way I wanted to do it.
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Re: "The Art and Mysterie..."

#444 Post by farmerfalconer » Mon May 13, 2013 2:37 pm

I see what you mean. Thats good to know.
What is you awl like? A long shallow curve? If you think this sould be moved to a different topic just let me know.

Thanks,
Cody (spelled it right this time:) )

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Re: "The Art and Mysterie..."

#445 Post by dw » Mon May 13, 2013 4:00 pm

farmerfalconer wrote:I see what you mean. Thats good to know.
What is you awl like? A long shallow curve? If you think this sould be moved to a different topic just let me know.

Thanks,
Cody (spelled it right this time:) )
PM me on Friday (I'm going fishing) and I'll snap a shot of it.
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Re: "The Art and Mysterie..."

#446 Post by farmerfalconer » Tue May 14, 2013 1:48 pm

Will do.
Good luck fishing.

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Re: "The Art and Mysterie..."

#447 Post by dw » Fri May 17, 2013 8:11 pm

farmerfalconer wrote:Will do.
Good luck fishing.
Cody,

Thanks. Just got back. Didn't catch anything but small trout.

I posted photos of the awl here
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Re: "The Art and Mysterie..."

#448 Post by paul » Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:47 am

I'm baaack!
I'll admit to being sidetracked by Facebook. Go ahead hate me.
But I'm all for us, believe me.

My interests in making is expanding. I have played around with some different styles and variations on what I'm confident in, that being Western boots. But I have not lost my love for the "Art and Mysterie..."

I've been in a refinement phase, and have been trying to figure out what I need to do to get my boots to stand straighter.
After a conversation with DW, I will heretofore set the tabs of my heel stiffener at the featherline of the heel, rather than 3/4" below/above that.

It's made a difference...
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Re: "The Art and Mysterie..."

#449 Post by paul » Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:50 am

Still have a little somethin' goin' on there, but I think I can tree that out.

Torino calf from Garlin Neumann, since discontinued.

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Re: "The Art and Mysterie..."

#450 Post by dw » Sun Apr 05, 2015 8:03 am

paul » Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:50 am wrote:Still have a little somethin' goin' on there, but I think I can tree that out.

Torino calf from Garlin Neumann, since discontinued.
Those look damn good, Paul...damn good.

The Torino looks pretty tempting, too. Dern! If you've got a small scrap stick it in an envelope and shoot it to me just so I can see what I missed out on! (Actually,) I might have used some of that for a FW, as well...just didn't know it was called Torino)
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